Shadowlands PvP Updates
Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
As we mentioned in last week’s Shadowlands Development Update, we’ve heard a lot of feedback from the PvP community that Conquest vendors in Shadowlands don’t offer enough of most players’ desired stats, leading to the sense that much of the best gear for PvP will have to be earned outside of PvP. We don’t want that to be the case.

Our current plan to address these concerns should become available in the Shadowlands Beta over the next couple of weeks.

First, we’re shifting the stat distributions on Conquest gear to always include Versatility. There should be two out of the three combinations (Versatility/Haste, Versatility/Mastery, Versatility/Crit) available for every slot. Secondly, we are adding a 2-piece set bonus, activated by equipping two PvP trinkets, such as crowd-control break (Medallion) or throughput (Battlemaster’s, Dominance, etc.) trinkets. This bonus will increase the damage and healing benefit of Versatility (but not the defensive benefit) while in Arenas, Battlegrounds, or War Mode.

The Conquest vendor will not offer perfect coverage of every stat combination, but neither does any other single source of gear in WoW. A player who favors Haste and Mastery cannot get a full set of Haste/Mastery gear from raiding alone, so if you’re someone who wants to be absolutely optimal, you’ll benefit from branching out across multiple types of content. Nonetheless, the result of these changes should be that a majority of the best gear for PvP now comes through the PvP system.

We look forward to your feedback on this, especially following your experiences testing the new itemization over the coming weeks.
This article was originally published in forum thread: Shadowlands PvP Updates started by Lumy View original post
Comments 77 Comments
  1. ketsui's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Do you even know what "beta testing" means? Here's a hint: it does not mean "let's see if we these features hold up or if we should scrap them and start over."

    Beta testing is number tuning, and fixing bugs.
    Don't worry about people like him, they have not worked in tech they have no clue how game development operates. Just let him complain, he said he left anyway which I doubt, you can't teach the uneducated on a forum, he is just here to rant about something he does not understand
  1. Lulbalance's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    The versatility bonus would have to be absolutely massive to even come close to rivaling trinkets like that. And with them already specifying that the defensive part of versatility is not included my hopes are pretty low that this will make a difference. Especially since people who like to mostly play unrated will continue getting the shaft no matter what.
    Yea, some of the PVE trinks look scary. Even some of the defensive trinks could be broken in arena.. we'll have to see.

    Also people who mostly play unrated are a bit like people who only LFR to me.. their opinion counts for something, but... not really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quack27 View Post
    So there will be an incentive to specifically NOT use game warping PvE Trinkets like Drest? Major victory for PvP.
    This will likely not always be the case in SL. It's a start though.
  1. RoKPaNda's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    The problem with mythic+ gear is, it is overshadowing absolutely every other gear progression system, even raiding.
    It really isn't though. At this point I'm wearing 2? M+ pieces as a Mythic raider. That's not bad for a system that's meant to be an alternative to raiding.
  1. Lucetia's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    If you want to stack Versatility, but not every class benefits the most from Vers.

    Maybe you could detail some examples of classes/specs that would perform sub-optimally if they elected to not participate in the bear minimum weekly PvP grind in order to stay competitive with people who do choose to do the content, instead of generalizing them all into one group of "PvE players"

    You could do that rather than just incessantly bitch.
    I know Havoc Demon Hunters loved Versatility for Legion/BFA though not sure if that is the case leading into SL. I know a lot of tanks utilize versatility as well due to damage reduction and the increases it gives. This would just mean those specific ones would need to PvP more in order to be effective and fill out pieces that needs it. There might be another spec or two that benefit from versatility, but I'm not sure off the top of my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    Have they addressed that concern at all with this fix? I'm getting the impression that vers is still on PvE gear.
    Versatility will still be on gear due to it working as a tank stat as well since we longer get gear that adjusts dodge/block/parry/etc.

    Also, they already said not all classes or everyone will want Versatility and will still need to go outside PvP to be optimal. So they are already planning for PvP'ers to PvE.
  1. WhiskeynWow's Avatar
    Why not set the PVP vendor to sell tokens, and use the Missives like crafted items to get the stats people want. Problem solved.
  1. InflaterMouse's Avatar
    "A player who favors Haste and Mastery cannot get a full set of Haste/Mastery gear from raiding alone, so if you’re someone who wants to be absolutely optimal, you’ll benefit from branching out across multiple types of content."

    Actually that is kind of exactly what happens. With this new system you are ensuring PVP remains relevant due to the versatility bonus provided for PVP. But as far as gearing up sets like haste/mastery I have literally done exactly that, even those 2 stats exactly multiple times in this game. Not sure why a dev would make a claim like this unless they don't actually play the game themselves.
  1. Sinte's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by InflaterMouse View Post
    "A player who favors Haste and Mastery cannot get a full set of Haste/Mastery gear from raiding alone, so if you’re someone who wants to be absolutely optimal, you’ll benefit from branching out across multiple types of content."

    Actually that is kind of exactly what happens. With this new system you are ensuring PVP remains relevant due to the versatility bonus provided for PVP. But as far as gearing up sets like haste/mastery I have literally done exactly that, even those 2 stats exactly multiple times in this game. Not sure why a dev would make a claim like this unless they don't actually play the game themselves.
    Nah, unless you're lucky with a raid tier, you do not have every slot of haste/mastery in raids. What YOU read was "from pve" which is absolutely true, you can do it from raids+mythic plus. But just raids? No, no you can't.
  1. orsraunia's Avatar
    The theory behind this sounds solid. Let's see how they implement it. For example, the set bonus should be significant one to make a good difference.
  1. Nuciek's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    The versatility bonus would have to be absolutely massive to even come close to rivaling trinkets like that. And with them already specifying that the defensive part of versatility is not included my hopes are pretty low that this will make a difference. Especially since people who like to mostly play unrated will continue getting the shaft no matter what.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    Yea, some of the PVE trinks look scary. Even some of the defensive trinks could be broken in arena.. we'll have to see.
    It's still WAY better than what we have in BfA and at least lowers the gap between PvE and PvE trinkets. Having this bonus will also mean that vers is better for you so it's worth it more to wear vers gear in PvP, leaving PvE players that didn't get vers gear a little bit behind in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appelgren View Post
    "Relevant" is an understatement. Overpowered as FK is the more correct term for RMx...
    No, it's not. Sometimes it has been OP, sometimes not. The thing with RMP over the years is that their synergy is huge, and even if all those classes were average, RMx would still be a solid setup because of it. Also I'd rather see RMP as a top tier, instead of LSD, TSG or Beastcleave.
  1. Amnaught's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    Also, they already said not all classes or everyone will want Versatility and will still need to go outside PvP to be optimal. So they are already planning for PvP'ers to PvE.
    This disgusts me
  1. pugdktank's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by orsraunia View Post
    The theory behind this sounds solid. Let's see how they implement it. For example, the set bonus should be significant one to make a good difference.
    bring back non pve based pvp all together to rez old pvp legends. These guys don't want no gear grind dungeon to enter the pvp arena. Also, make pvp gear non pvm? ideas open. "FOR THE ALLIANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
  1. faithbane's Avatar
    If you have access to beta, go try to pvp right now on a mana user because it is hilarious. Somehow mana-regen is reserved and it drains your mana instead ... with the amount of bugs still in beta, this will be a bethesda level shitshow at launch.
  1. Eazy's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    But they will though, because M+ is still going to be the absolute fastest way to get high end gear.

    Have they addressed that concern at all with this fix? I'm getting the impression that vers is still on PvE gear.
    Yes, but the reward from M+ will be lower than HC raiding, which is actually good(for me). Only the weekly cache for +14-15 will have mythic ilvl drops.

    So you'll need to gear up in the M+ asap(2-3 weeks?) and then just do PvP for the cache with better items(with guarantee versa).
  1. Tyrannica's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    I disagree here. The solution should be to implement a system that competes with it in each part of content. Grinding gear endlessly in hard content is fun, just, it should exist in PvP too. I don't know what PvP+ would look like, but more gear plz
    If you spent more time in trivial small scale pve content for the best gear, than high rated arenas and mythic raids, something is wrong, also they did add residium for the best azerite gear in bfa, but i thought it would have been much bettter to add that currency to actually NON-mythic+ content like pvp and raids, just that those areas could compete with mythic+, as it has no lockouts and a much wider range of items and are much easier to do.

    At least hc and mythic raids in SL will provide higher ilvl than mythic+ high key runs now.

    https://de.wowhead.com/news=317979/s...on-reward-redu

    Another one, instead than wasting so much time into mythic+ progression and content, rehashing old content over and over patch by patch, with just a scaling mechanic, blizzard could have actually improved pvp.

    Especially warmode could have its own progression path, tech tree and so on.

    Look what blizz did with warmode in BfA? Even horrific visions had more design creativity and its just a patch feature, not an expansion feature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    It really isn't though. At this point I'm wearing 2? M+ pieces as a Mythic raider. That's not bad for a system that's meant to be an alternative to raiding.
    does not matter, i am ilvl 480+ and wear enough pieces of mythic nyalotha as well, but 480 azerite pieces as well as the 475 ilvl chests were around when people still progressed in HC Nyalotha.

    This patch is very old by now at the full picture mythic+ rewards were too early availible and too powerful in comparission to high arena ratings and mythic nyalotha early clears.
  1. Thelxi's Avatar
    Unfortunately this is a double down on the deceptive change of lipstick on the same pig. There is one good change here though, and that is a slight separation of PvE gear from PvE gear. That's where the good news ends though.


    • Assuming the trinket set is tuned to be meaningful, PvP trinkets will be BiS for PvP regardless of your rating or PvE gear ilvls. No PvE trinkets in PvP this expansion constitutes a minor step forward in PvE/PvP gear separation, but boy is it minor if a step at all.
    • It's now confirmed that PvP gear will still be gated behind rating, which means that unless you farm your conquest at the top of the ladder, you will still want to PvE for gear with vers on it for the ilvl. You'll probably still use the PvP trinkets despite their low ilvl, which slightly adds to the whole separation thing.
    • More deterministic choice in PvP gearing, which always good.

    tldr; these changes are good changes if for streamers/top of the ladder PvPers/PvErs, but change next to nothing for the majority of PvPers/casuals and imo most importantly alts.
  1. Recovery's Avatar
    Depending on how good the Trinket set bonus actually is, pretty much EVERY spec will want to stack vers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    Unfortunately this is a double down on the deceptive change of lipstick on the same pig. There is one good change here though, and that is a slight separation of PvE gear from PvE gear. That's where the good news ends though.


    • Assuming the trinket set is tuned to be meaningful, PvP trinkets will be BiS for PvP regardless of your rating or PvE gear ilvls. No PvE trinkets in PvP this expansion constitutes a minor step forward in PvE/PvP gear separation, but boy is it minor if a step at all.
    • It's now confirmed that PvP gear will still be gated behind rating, which means that unless you farm your conquest at the top of the ladder, you will still want to PvE for gear with vers on it for the ilvl. You'll probably still use the PvP trinkets despite their low ilvl, which slightly adds to the whole separation thing.
    • More deterministic choice in PvP gearing, which always good.

    tldr; these changes are good changes if for streamers/top of the ladder PvPers/PvErs, but change next to nothing for the majority of PvPers/casuals and imo most importantly alts.

    Pvp gear has ALWAYS in the past been gated by rating. Either by causing you to earn more / less conquest in relation to your rating or putting actual rating gates on the gear. This is nothing new. you can still get a full set of 190 pvp gear from spamming bgs though. Your conquest gear will come in time. Someone who is higher rated than you will just acquire it faster, which makes sense. if youre an 1800 player, youre not going to be qing into people who are at 2500 with better gear than you, anyway.\

    But yes, i agree with you on trinket tuning. It can either make this the best pvp gear system there has ever been, or it can fall flat becoming useless.. Time will tell.

    Im assuming trinkets will be the first 2 items purchased followed by weapons, followed by everything else.

    What a time to be alive!
  1. ihate2beapessimist's Avatar
    Now wait for the PVE players to whine and get this reverted
  1. Thelxi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Depending on how good the Trinket set bonus actually is, pretty much EVERY spec will want to stack vers.

    - - - Updated - - -




    Pvp gear has ALWAYS in the past been gated by rating. Either by causing you to earn more / less conquest in relation to your rating or putting actual rating gates on the gear. This is nothing new. you can still get a full set of 190 pvp gear from spamming bgs though. Your conquest gear will come in time. Someone who is higher rated than you will just acquire it faster, which makes sense. if youre an 1800 player, youre not going to be qing into people who are at 2500 with better gear than you, anyway.
    There obviously is a big difference between TIME-gating gear acquisition, and flat-out gating the gear itself behind rating, which is the case today and forces the vast majority of PvPers onto the PvE treadmills, which is the whole philosophy and goal behind this.

    I also don't see why anyone would want to PvP with 190 gear, 3 ilvls above LFR gear. World boss gear is 207, m+10 is 204-210 and good old heroic raid gear is 213-220. Who wants that trash?

    The rating gating btw will not just be the speed of acquiring the CP gear, but how much you can upgrade it. There is no way in hell Blizzard will allow even decently rated players to upgrade conquest all the way up to mythic raiding ilvls. We don't know how they will gate this yet, but you best believe they will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihate2beapessimist View Post
    Now wait for the PVE players to whine and get this reverted
    What's there to whine about? just save your highest ilvl PvE pieces with vers on them, slap on two PvP trinkets and you are good to go.
  1. Recovery's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    There obviously is a big difference between TIME-gating gear acquisition, and flat-out gating the gear itself behind rating, which is the case today and forces the vast majority of PvPers onto the PvE treadmills, which is the whole philosophy and goal behind this.

    I also don't see why anyone would want to PvP with 190 gear, 3 ilvls above LFR gear. World boss gear is 207, m+10 is 204-210 and good old heroic raid gear is 213-220. Who wants that trash?

    The rating gating btw will not just be the speed of acquiring the CP gear, but how much you can upgrade it. There is no way in hell Blizzard will allow even decently rated players to upgrade conquest all the way up to mythic raiding ilvls. We don't know how they will gate this yet, but you best believe they will.

    - - - Updated - - -



    What's there to whine about? just save your highest ilvl PvE pieces with vers on them, slap on two PvP trinkets and you are good to go.

    Of course it will be gated. Why WOULD you allow pvpers to get a full set of mythic ilvl gear long before you can get it in pve? Im sure the highes ilvl pcp gear will be ismilar to raid at 226 or whatever, but youre not going to be able to just farm it out in a month. IF that was the case, there would be no point in doing pve content and everyone would just farm a pvp set.

    The gear has been gated behind rating in the past dude, thats what im telling you. In bc and wrath, you had to be at a certain rating to buy certain pieces. This isnt a first for that, if its actually even the case.

    What do you mean you dont see why you would to pvp in 190 ilvl gear? Dude, thats literally starter gear. Youre gonna farm it out the first couple of weeks, just like pve'ers will be farming out heroic dungeon gear and base mythic dungeon gear.

    Are you talking about pvping at the end of the season in 190 gear? Like, i dont get it.
  1. Thelxi's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Of course it will be gated. Why WOULD you allow pvpers to get a full set of mythic ilvl gear long before you can get it in pve? Im sure the highes ilvl pcp gear will be ismilar to raid at 226 or whatever, but youre not going to be able to just farm it out in a month. IF that was the case, there would be no point in doing pve content and everyone would just farm a pvp set.

    The gear has been gated behind rating in the past dude, thats what im telling you. In bc and wrath, you had to be at a certain rating to buy certain pieces. This isnt a first for that, if its actually even the case.

    What do you mean you dont see why you would to pvp in 190 ilvl gear? Dude, thats literally starter gear. Youre gonna farm it out the first couple of weeks, just like pve'ers will be farming out heroic dungeon gear and base mythic dungeon gear.

    Are you talking about pvping at the end of the season in 190 gear? Like, i dont get it.
    You're being obtuse. If you want to have a discussion with me try again.

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