Mike Morhaime Starts New Gaming Company, Dreamhaven

Originally Posted by Tiwack

Only a matter of time before they become victims of their own success once again. Oh well, at least they'll push gaming forward again and provide us with some sweet games.

much more likely they will just fade into obscurity. at best they'll get a game on path of exiles level of success, if they can find a nice niche to occupy. but they can just as easily never release anything until they "get it right" which may be never, or just have games that are mediocre sales wise like a dime in a dozen studios. it's all happened before to studios "by big names from big studio" by now, and i don't think any has ever struck gold the same way their original companies did.

Mike Morhaim should have spent his money in investment banking. Swindle into Activision-Blizzard, trash the company into pieces, sell them for parts and then keep the IPs he want. Investment Banking is awesome!

Originally Posted by lakylog

You say you play vanilla, yet BFA pales in comparison to vanilla. What grind is there in vanilla? You get your gear, you do your raids, everything else is optional. Want to unlock profession patterns by killing furbolgs and what not to make yourself stand out compared to most others? Go ahead.

There's nothing mandatory, except for maybe Argent Dawn for the Naxx attunement, and even that is optional. ZG rep comes from doing the raid. AQ rep comes from doing the raids.

BFA had you do tons of mandatory grinds for reputation and artifact power: island expeditions, mythic+ dungeons, world quest, rares. You can get your gear in vanilla and go raid, you can't do that in BFA, you have to unlock azerite traits (artifact power) and essences, which itself is several grinds.

All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

Originally Posted by Nerovar

You sound like a well-adjusted individual.

I mean I guess thinking its funny how desperately everyone clings to the idea of Activision bad, blizzard soul good makes me unhinged right? ....lol

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Originally Posted by SirBeef

All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

Hey there bud, 5 level 60s that are pretty close to AQ BIS....stop lying to yourself. Classic "grinding" is waiting for it to be your turn to get the onslaught that drops once a week...nothing more.

Originally Posted by SirBeef

All the faction reps, PvP ranks, resist gear, and mats for raiding materials were far greater than the couple of hours a week needed for anything in BfA. I play around 10 hours a week and am able to achieve more than when I was playing 20+ from launch through WotLK. And seriously anyone thinking this shit today is a grind has no fucking clue.

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

It sounds to me like you're comparing casual BFA LFR to (semi)hardcore vanilla raiding. If you want to get that in depth I'd like to bring up Method's hundreds of millions of gold debt to stay competitive in BFA.

Originally Posted by subsidalos

I agree Wildstar was the one MMO I actually played the longest outside of WoW. Here's hoping that Dreamhaven can create a rival MMO masterpiece.

the longest here meaning...what...the 5 months it was actually online in a semi populated state?

Originally Posted by Checkt

the longest here meaning...what...the 5 months it was actually online in a semi populated state?

How's it an argument how long it stayed "popular"? That's besides the point they made.

Originally Posted by lakylog

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

It sounds to me like you're comparing casual BFA LFR to (semi)hardcore vanilla raiding. If you want to get that in depth I'd like to bring up Method's hundreds of millions of gold debt to stay competitive in BFA.

This is reductive. Vanilla is a boring grindfest. Full stop.

Originally Posted by Doffen

Dreamhaven will kill WoW. Just like Wildstar did.

Well...

A.) Dreamhaven is a game development company, and the parent company to two gaming studios. Not a game.

B.) No games have been announced, so we have no idea what kind of games they'll initially develop. There is literally nothing to suggest it would even compete in the same market.

So this statement is kind of silly at best.

Originally Posted by Oakshana

So this statement is kind of silly at best.

I think this analysis was too serious for such a silly statement for sure

Originally Posted by ColbaneX

This is reductive. Vanilla is a boring grindfest. Full stop.

Yet I provide numerous examples of grinds in BFA yet you can't provide a single example of grind in vanilla. You are very convincing.

Hope they make a game about Orcs and Humans. Where the Orcs come through a portal to a world where the humans live and they wage war on each other. Would be a cool game I think.

Originally Posted by Checkt

I mean I guess thinking its funny how desperately everyone clings to the idea of Activision bad, blizzard soul good makes me unhinged right? ....lol

I mean... those are your words.

Isnt this the 16th studio made by former blizzard devs?

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Originally Posted by Deathrange

Hope they make a game about Orcs and Humans. Where the Orcs come through a portal to a world where the humans live and they wage war on each other. Would be a cool game I think.

Mike is a businessman. He believes himself responsible for starting the internet gaming revolution. Its going to be a multiplayer competitive game of some sort. Same as Bonfire studios is doing: the other game studio made by "legendary blizzard devs".

Originally Posted by lakylog

>Faction reps
Classic: One hundred percent optional. You can get some profession patterns, but if you desire any of these enchants/crafts you can get them from other players who bothered.
BFA: you have dungeons gated behind faction reputations, essences and flying.

The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.

> PvP ranks:
Classic: One hundred percent optional. I raid in Classic and I've never touched PvP outside of getting Rank 3 for the discount.
BFA: Forces you to PvP for essences.

I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.

> Mats for raiding materials:
Classic: If you're in a decent guild, the guild bank can in most cases provide materials needed for flasks where necessary for progression. Flasks are not used for farm because it's overkill. Flasks also persist on death. You can make it all the way to Naxx with nothing but resistance potions so your time spent grinding for mats is minimal.
BFA: You are usually expected to show up with food, flasks, and pots for every raid worth hours of grind or thousands of gold.

Flasks only started persisting through death on patch 1.7. And once again you're being disingenuous. Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.

> Resist gear:
Classic: This only applies if you're the given role that requires it, excluding Naxx.
BFA: Non-existent.

Point for BfA.

Originally Posted by Ielenia

The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.


I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.


Flasks only started persisting through death on patch 1.7. And once again you're being disingenuous. Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.


Point for BfA.

> The dungeons remained locked behind rep for only five months. And even so, you did not need to do those dungeons. You don't need to do the reps in BfA just like you didn't need to do the reps back in vanilla.

You need to do those dungeons in mythic+ and mythic for gear.

> I'm sorry, but you're being incredibly disingenuous, here. First, because BfA doesn't "force" you to do PvP for the essences, at all. And second, because the poster is talking about PvP ranks, not rewards or content locked behind PvP ranks. You're using a red herring, here.

You have to grind for PvP ranks. You also have to grind for PvP rating (titles, rewards), the point is?

> Guilds in BfA do not "expect you to show up with food, flasks and pots", unless you're a serious raiding guild, and even then, those guilds often supply you with food and flasks. I'd imagine that "serious raiding guilds" in Vanilla would expect you to regularly pitch in with materials (herbs and food) for the guild's flasks, food and potions.

Every guild I've been in, whether it be a Mythic progression guild or a casual AotC guild has required me to show up fully buffed with food, flasks, and potions. My Classic guild has not required me to show up with anything other than mana potions. You can't prove my experience wrong.

Originally Posted by lakylog

You need to do those dungeons in mythic+ and mythic for gear.

No. No, you didn't need to. There were other dungeons with mythic and mythic+ options. Siege of Boralus and King's Rest weren't the only two dungeons in the game with mythic and mythic+ options.

You have to grind for PvP ranks. You also have to grind for PvP rating (titles, rewards), the point is?

Wasn't it, back in Vanilla, you had to keep grinding PvP and honor otherwise you'd lose ranking with each passing... week? Or was it month?

Every guild I've been in, whether it be a Mythic progression guild or a casual AotC guild has required me to show up fully buffed with food, flasks, and potions. My Classic guild has not required me to show up with anything other than mana potions. You can't prove my experience wrong.

I can call your attempt to pass your experience as a general fact of how guilds operate in BfA. Every guild I've been in has provided flasks and food for everyone, and sometimes even potions. Anecdotal evidence cancels anecdotal evidence.

Originally Posted by lakylog

How's it an argument how long it stayed "popular"? That's besides the point they made.

because he seems to imply that wildstar was fun and enjoyable for a long time when it was basically DOA

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Originally Posted by Nerovar

I mean... those are your words.

you seem like a stable individual

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Originally Posted by Toppy

Mike is a businessman. He believes himself responsible for starting the internet gaming revolution. Its going to be a multiplayer competitive game of some sort. Same as Bonfire studios is doing: the other game studio made by "legendary blizzard devs".

but THIS time it'll be like the original blizzard

why do people on mmo-champ even care about dreamhaven?
Aren't we here because we wanna play mmorpgs? Dreamhaven won't be involved in developing a MMO like wow.
So what's the point? If you wanna play mmorpgs you are still stuck with WOW, or FFXIV if you're weeb that's into shitty raids and gameplay.

I would like to say congrats. Stepping from worker to owner is a incredibly brave move. I did it about 5 years ago in the building industry. I can say there will be ups and down. Lot's and lot's of learning experiences. And a change in your life style. For me, owning a business is like changing your life to a different life style. You never clock out, your business is always a part of you 24/7. Now I can say, all that stated, I would do it again in a heartbeat. When you get your stride, you will know, and you will be elevated in your mind, and you will know a whole new set of skills few will understand. There will be haters, there will be dishonest business players. Stay strong and be honest, stay positive and understand setbacks are just the price of learning. You will end up happy, distinguished, fulfilled and of course very very successful.
Good luck and I hope you guys see this.