The Great Push - New Mythic+ Tournament

Originally Posted by Cracked

Definitely at least a little more interesting than MDI. But let's be honest, the only PvE tournament that would be at all interesting to watch would have to be some kind of King of the Hill format, where random challeneges are thrown at the teams and they fight for who can survive the longest.

Won't happen. The amount of practice such an event would require is simply far, far too much to be worth it for any players interested in competing in it.

Looks a little more appealing than the MDI.

Originally Posted by Samuraijake

All the people/players have left is asmongold at this point to appeal to your average joe.

How is asmon in any way appealing to the average joe?

Originally Posted by otaXephon

Won't happen. The amount of practice such an event would require is simply far, far too much to be worth it for any players interested in competing in it.

The point is to minimize the advantage of practice for on the fly thinking and decisions. You know, like any other interesting sport. Practice is the baseline, but during a match, you have to think on your feet and change strategy based on how things are evolving. Stuff like MDI is so boring because you are just watching a rehearsed performance, like ballet.

Originally Posted by FelPlague

Hate to break it to you, buy raiding is also time based.

If you actually read the thread and did not reply to random posts you would have seen that I have posted exactly what you have said.
Raiding is more emphasis on the mechanics tho. Timer is a thing ofc - soft enrages or hard enrages.

I am all for non-timed dungeons for the guys, who cares, up the rewards by +2 keys to get the same what timed dungeons get and that's it. If you can't clear +15 timed, chances are that you won't clear 17 at all and if you choose to wait for BL before every pull to do it - damn, take that weekly. You have only so much time until your healer mana runs out on bosses and some bosses will just kill you anyway, i.e. Hakaar or second boss in SoA, so if someone thinks that m+ is the evil here - ok.

Me when I go poopie

Originally Posted by otaXephon

And pointless impotent cynicism apparently isn't something you're unfamiliar with either. eSports event exposure is some of the easiest, low overhead marketing available to Blizzard, they'd be complete fucking morons to not at least try to tap into it at a competitive level. The MDI clearly isn't working as well as they would like so they're trying a different angle. A healthy eSports scene would only stand to enrichen the longterm stability of WoW but instead of even attempting to understand the underlying reasons for Blizzard to conduct these types of events instead you'd rather bitch about the fact that they're running their billion dollar gaming franchise without consulting you personally first. Get the fuck over yourself.

You keep projecting your ideas of what bad philosophy is as if it helps your arguments lol. And getting emotional the way you do certainly doesn't help either.

eSports is niche. Not a lot of people care about it. Those who watch these M+ invitationals only care about what metas are being pushed/made so they can copy the same thing.

MDI didn't work. Guess what else didn't work? Their numerous other attempts at entering the eSports scene. Heroes flopped hard, Hearthstone died hard, and Overwatch was their only taste of success.. but that also died pretty hard due to massive mismanagement and halting support on the current game itself so that they can work on its L4D mode DLC.

I don't know anybody who started playing wow because of some nerds running dungeons over and over again with some soyboys regurgitating every button press as if they were announcers doing the livefeed for a football game.

Blizz is wasting their money and resources, man.

Originally Posted by Nite92

Yeah, 30-120minutes blown up to multiple months is exactly the same as going from a 12 min encounter to 30-40 min experience.

They're equally similar (as in, they're not similar at all). A Mythic raid isn't a single encounter, it's the raid as a whole - and it is not time-based content.

Originally Posted by rrayy

IF this wasn't happening, the money wouldn't be spent at all. Also, the money for this does not come from WoW's budget.

It comes from Acti-Blizz. That money could go towards expanding the company further, acquiring more studios, creating more studios, creating more jobs that last longer than one or two eSport matches, going into Bobby's pockets, one or more of the many games Acti-Blizz has under its belt.

That money can be spent on a million more things than creating yet another failed eSports scene lol

Originally Posted by Cracked

The point is to minimize the advantage of practice for on the fly thinking and decisions. You know, like any other interesting sport. Practice is the baseline, but during a match, you have to think on your feet and change strategy based on how things are evolving. Stuff like MDI is so boring because you are just watching a rehearsed performance, like ballet.

That's not how this game works at a higher level. The number of variables that teams have to practice for is absolutely insane. You'd be mistaken to watch MDI and think that they make it look easy when in reality it's anything but. It's fine to throw shit out this as hypotheticals but the reality is that very few players would actually want to participate in this kind of tournament. I just don't see something like this happening.

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Originally Posted by Stardrift

You keep projecting your ideas of what bad philosophy is as if it helps your arguments lol. And getting emotional the way you do certainly doesn't help either.

eSports is niche. Not a lot of people care about it. Those who watch these M+ invitationals only care about what metas are being pushed/made so they can copy the same thing.

MDI didn't work. Guess what else didn't work? Their numerous other attempts at entering the eSports scene. Heroes flopped hard, Hearthstone died hard, and Overwatch was their only taste of success.. but that also died pretty hard due to massive mismanagement and halting support on the current game itself so that they can work on its L4D mode DLC.

I don't know anybody who started playing wow because of some nerds running dungeons over and over again with some soyboys regurgitating every button press as if they were announcers doing the livefeed for a football game.

Blizz is wasting their money and resources, man.

Emotional? Your ideas are pointlessly cynical, banal and totally disinteresting. That's not expressing an emotion, that's telling you that you're a boring person with (imo) a shitty opinion. You are a random dude with a keyboard posting on a fan forum for WoW. Your opinion isn't worth more than anybody else's; while you're free to feel however the fuck you want about Blizzard's decisions on how they market their video game, I'm inclined to believe that a company that makes billions of dollars a year knows a little bit more about what does work for their game than the innumerable armchair game developers on this website.

Originally Posted by jackofwind

Encounter timers/enrages aren't the same thing at all as having the entire event timed which completely dictates the overall strategy meta and promotes stupid things like extensive pack-skipping and huge meme aoe pulls.

There is no non-timer focused challenging 5-man group content in the game, and Mythic Dungeons would have been vastly better system if they were focused on scaling levels of extremely unforgiving/demanding mechanics and didn't revolve around running against an arbitrary clock.

I guess you don't do keys... There is a correlation between what key you can time and what key you can finish. Raid times also dictates tactics since.... WoW was released. That is why you don't see things like 10 tanks 10 healers comps.
If you think that live keys are being run anything like MDI then I would ask you, why do you comment on something you don't have a clue about?
Do you think people would not skip any trash if there was no timer? What? You skip trash because you don't need to kill it, not because it's a timer. That's what's good about having certain % to collect. You choose how and where to get it. If you think that people would not skip trash to save time in non timed keys.. well, ok?

And what is wrong with huge aoe pulls? It's fun. And requires way more skill than just removing 2 mobs out of one pack to fight another two dudes.
And if you think that people would have more fun if M+ was all about unforgiving/demanding mechanics instead of tactics, oh boy, people who blame the timer because they can't do a +15 with their 220 geared characters would rip Blizzard apart. They wouldn't be able to do a +15 at all.

How about asking a timeless keystone mode instead of shitting on current m+? Trust me, there is not that much difference on what you can time and what you can complete unless you want to go into 16 hour long dungeons on have a 5 man progress runs where on wednesday your goal is to progress kill Hakaar and move to Manastorms before reset - well, that's 5 man raiding I guess. Just with with trash loot because it's repeatable content.

Originally Posted by erifwodahs

unless you want to go into 16 hour long dungeons

I do. I do want that. I did want that. That is what Mythic Dungeons should have been.

16 hours is hyperbole, but seriously hard 3-4 hour dungeons - yes absolutely put them inside me.

I think the entire premise of Mythics being on a clock is lazy game design. It's far easier to slap a timer on something to make it hard than to actually design something challenging in the first place.

Originally Posted by FelPlague

1. valve also is a far larger company then blizzard, right out owning steam, the biggest fucking online gaming marketplace ever
2. this is not the "major tournoment" of the year like dota's is, this is just a small tournoment for fun.

Google has the net worth of Valve at 12 billion and Blizzard Entertainment at 22 billion. It has nothing to do with the company size or even steam being the most popular digital retailer. WoW has never generated much. Heck even the one Overwatch charity skin made more then all of the WoW charity pets.

Steam only puts up $1.6 million of the Dota prize pool with the rest funded from shop/pass sales and sponsorships. The pool relates to the presence of the game/sport rather then the company putting it on. Could Blizzard put up more for all the competitions? Sure. They don't need to since 8k (1.6 per person) is still decent for a small or "experimental" format.

Originally Posted by jackofwind

I do. I do want that. I did want that. That is what Mythic Dungeons should have been.

16 hours is hyperbole, but seriously hard 3-4 hour dungeons - yes absolutely put them inside me.

Ask for it then. You don't have to remove m+ or shit talk it if you want something completely different. I would vote for that addition, maybe even participate in it, even tho I would rather do a key under an hour.

16 hours SoA actually happened btw. Or 14. Something in that bracket.

Also I hope you realize meta comps would still absolutely happen in Timeless keys, it would not fix any current problems besides shifting meta into single target classes and removing depletion. Meta - check, rio - check, optimal routes - check, leavers - check which is way more punishing if someone leaves 2 hours into the dungeon, toxic elitists - check. Option to invite people or get loot from bosses would open another 5 Pandora's boxes.

Originally Posted by erifwodahs

Ask for it then. You don't have to remove m+ or shit talk it if you want something completely different. I would vote for that addition, maybe even participate in it, even tho I would rather do a key under an hour.

16 hours SoA actually happened btw. Or 14. Something in that bracket.

Also I hope you realize meta comps would still absolutely happen in Timeless keys, it would not fix any current problems besides shifting meta into single target classes and removing depletion. Meta - check, rio - check, optimal routes - check, leavers - check which is way more punishing if someone leaves 2 hours into the dungeon, toxic elitists - check. Option to invite people or get loot from bosses would open another 5 Pandora's boxes.

I'm really not shit talking, just saying I think time-base content is lazy design. That's completely valid. You're being very defensive about a system that you obviously love, but I think you need to take a step back from it.

It's like the difference between the Greater Rifts implemented in D3 and the concept of Maps/Dungeons in ProjD2 - GRifts are timed and progressive (and I think that's lazy design), Maps/Dungeons are scaled crazily with ludicrous affixes and have no time limit (or time incentives) but have dramatically increased rewards (XP/GF/MF). People can like either one, but I think better design happens when you can't just say "now do it faster for better stuff".

I have no issue with dungeons of any kind having a meta - literally everything gets a meta - I have an issue with it being a clock-watch fiesta. That's just my opinion, and its fine that you like its current design. What you like doesn't bother me.

you know this would be fun to watch if people were chosen randomly.
Like you send out invitations to random people then put them into random teams again. Put them into same discord and have them compete while streaming all the shitstorm on discord and ingame. That would be interesting.

Originally Posted by Samuraijake

thats what people are doing... and why there are so many memes, forum posts, n youtube videos about wows declining subs over time.

endwalker will be another blow

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this^

atm we got:

Dratnos route sheeps

Streamer sheeps

MDI sheeps

WF sheeps

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thats total prize pool. 1st place probably gets 10k.. then split 5 ways into 2k...cant give too much or it might affect koticks 200m bonuses

Okay have fun with your 3 year gcd that FF14 has.

I really hope if they ever make this a live event, they better Patch Adams the entrance at Blizzcon.

Originally Posted by Gref

you know this would be fun to watch if people were chosen randomly.
Like you send out invitations to random people then put them into random teams again. Put them into same discord and have them compete while streaming all the shitstorm on discord and ingame. That would be interesting.

Sounds fun to watch but nobody would want to play it.

Originally Posted by otaXephon

Sounds fun to watch but nobody would want to play it.

That sounds actually like a lot of fun, but I almost exclusively pug cause of my odd rotating schedule.

More e-sports crap for an MMORPG.

Thanks, I hate it.