Blizzard creativity when it comes to WoW and Raids

[Athrai]

I have a few concerns for the laziness of Blizzard at the moment.

This is NOT a qq thread. I just want to express my interest on blizzard's creativity


Now Lets get with the basics that yes they did design a whole new expansions with new models and such. They brought back 2 dungeons, SFK and Deadmines (Vancleef... not so much anymore) They did design a few other new dungeons but why did they have to just revamp 2?
3 New raids are fun yes, But this new Firelands raid that we are expecting in patch 4.1 has ragnaros in it. If you all have seen his model, he has legs.

Getting to the point with firelands raid, sure new raid instance but they just took ragnaros and slapped him in there with some new armor and some newly sprouted legs.

2 new 5man dungeons. Zul'aman and Zul'gurub... Thats where the laziness comes in. Really blizzard. You took away 1 of those raid instances and now your going to bring it back, My .02 cents is that blizzard is not going to be changing much with the place but there are just going to be giving it a new place, buff there healths, add new loot.

I'm all about creativity and so far blizzard has done great, but lately there creativity has been slacking. I see models reused throughout the game in various places that really it shouldnt be.

Your thoughts?

[Nightcloak]

I agree. With all the posts on any WoW site you go to about how the game is becoming stale, they go and recycle 2 more dungeons? I like WoW and I still play it, but its the lack of anything new thats driving their customer base away. It feels more like a second job that Im having to grind through to get anywhere. The only thing Im really enjoying right now is the raiding, and here we are, back to the recycled content of ragnaros.

[Athrai]

They did add new mounts and they are reskinned versions of there older versions.

[Kikiyodragon]

I agree. With all the posts on any WoW site you go to about how the game is becoming stale, they go and recycle 2 more dungeons? I like WoW and I still play it, but its the lack of anything new thats driving their customer base away. It feels more like a second job that Im having to grind through to get anywhere. The only thing Im really enjoying right now is the raiding, and here we are, back to the recycled content of ragnaros.

Last time I checked, their customer base was getting bigger. Also, we knew Ragnaros was coming back in full force. Or rather, we're going to his doorstep. He, along with any new bosses added to the Firelands, will be seeing new loot tables, new boss mechanics, new models, etc. As for the troll instances, Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman are being tuned for five players, rather than ten or twenty as they have been before. Just like Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep, expect to see new models, new story, new loot and new mechanics. This is all new as far as I'm concerned. It's just as new as when they revamped Stormwind City and left King Varian there as the leader, rather than axing him and adding someone else. I didn't hear a single complaint the day they announced they were revamping Stormwind (and the rest of the world) that Varian will still be leading the human nation... that of course doesn't count Varian's hate base.

[Nightcloak]

Eh its just the reskinning thing. Here we are at the beginning with Netharian and and f&^king Onyxia for the third time, and then we get Rag and ZA and ZG. Whats next, Return to the Trial of the Crusader or Revenge of Kel' Thuzad? I know everyone is always whining about the good ole days in vanilla, but we need new, fresh raids that aren't shit (Like ToC) for people to stay interested in this game. Yeah theyre trying to tie up some old lore, but they should input that in sporadically, rather than as 2/3rds of our current content.

[Aroll]

bringing new stories, new encounters

They promise new encounters. We'll see. I'm not really upset about it - ZA, ZG, they did actually exist in the game and they are no longer viable content, or were removed entirely for being useless (ZG). THey come back as useful instances once again. What's the problem? There is A LOT of content in this game, and in terms of places like ZG and Rag, a lot of today's players have never experienced them as intended. I've been in top 50 US raid guilds before, and from my experience a lot of today's raiders didn't play or didn't raid in classic.

[Nightcloak]

Last time I checked, their customer base was getting bigger. Also, we knew Ragnaros was coming back in full force. Or rather, we're going to his doorstep. He, along with any new bosses added to the Firelands, will be seeing new loot tables, new boss mechanics, new models, etc. As for the troll instances, Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman are being tuned for five players, rather than ten or twenty as they have been before. Just like Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep, expect to see new models, new story, new loot and new mechanics. This is all new as far as I'm concerned. It's just as new as when they revamped Stormwind City and left King Varian there as the leader, rather than axing him and adding someone else. I didn't hear a single complaint the day they announced they were revamping Stormwind (and the rest of the world) that Varian will still be leading the human nation... that of course doesn't count Varian's hate base.

Stormwind is still the exact same SW with a few minor aesthetic changes. It isnt a fresh new city like Org and feels the exactly the same to me as it has the past 5 years Ive been playing. We get a new AH and bank, a graveyard, and a lake. Oh and the front two battlements are all flamy and under reconstruction. Just a slight reskin as much of WoW is becoming. Im not normally a whiner and I don't usually post QQ posts, these are simply my opinions on where the vast majority of the people complaing's problems lie.

[Aroll]

Eh its just the reskinning thing. Here we are at the beginning with Netharian and and f&^king Onyxia for the third time, and then we get Rag and ZA and ZG. Whats next, Return to the Trial of the Crusader or Revenge of Kel' Thuzad? I know everyone is always whining about the good ole days in vanilla, but we need new, fresh raids that aren't shit (Like ToC) for people to stay interested in this game. Yeah theyre trying to tie up some old lore, but they should input that in sporadically, rather than as 2/3rds of our current content.

2/3rds of present content? First off you know the old lore can't actually be ignored that much right now right? The old lore = azeroth. Not sure if you noticed, but were now back in that same area. Nef, Onyxia. Rag, they didn't just go away because OMG WE MOVED ON. THey also didn't go away because Deathwing blew up the world. They now have to find new purposes, and that is what Blizzard is doing with them. They knew onyixia on her own wouldn't be as good as onyxia and nef together. Rag getting legs does bother me, but I wont cry over it. Lets see if there is some lore behind it first.

So you claim 2/3rds of content is recycled.

Raid:

You have Nef, and eventually Rag. That still leaves what, 19+ new raid bosses? THat's less than 1/3 of raid content.

SFK, Deadmines, ZA, and ZG.

Compared to:

Throne, BRC, GB, HoO, Lost City, Stonecore, VP

Thats 7 new, 4 recycled.

What the heck is the problem? THey are lazy because they are in Azeroth and thus are retooling.... Azeroth for 85? Classic was great, and what they are doing now makes logical sense. They also have injected PLENTY OF NEW, way more new then they are old.

[Tziva]

Whether you think its lazy or not to recycle bosses and raids, the reality is that there are tons of people out there asking for it. How many times over the years have you heard people whine that they want all the classic dungeons redone as heroics? How many times have you heard people ask for classic servers in part so they can do the old raids that don't exist anymore? Before when Burning Crusade was first launched, tons of people complained that Naxx wasn't out long enough and they didn't get to see it (and you can simply look at the stats and how few raids finished it). How many people were horrified when Zul Gurub was removed because they loved that raid?

You see laziness, I see Blizzard catering to these people by relaunching some older content on a limited basis, including things like Naxx that not many people got to see, and favourite old dungeons like Shadowfang and Deadmines, and things like ZG that people were up in arms about being taken away.

I kinda feel bad for Blizzard, where people on both sides of the issue are crying. They can't win.

[schippie]

2/3rds of present content....... they are old.

+1 internet for that comment.

Blizz is just updating everything to 85 standards. And in my opinion they are doing a awesome job. People are always gonna complain as simple as that.

I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody - bill crosby.

[Sensei_Sin]

Blizzard said they wanted to release both 5-man content and raids on every major patch and, instead of having half-baked attempts at both they are using two old raids that everyone loved and converting them into new 5-man content, freeing them the time to create new raids.

[Fenixdown]

Here's my take.

I have played since vanilla. I, as a vanilla player, positively LOVE the revamps to old content to make it viable for max levels.

The sad part is that most people who complain about "omg they're rehashing content QQQ" probably didn't even do the content when it was viable in the first place. What surprises me most is the "omg it's ony and nef again". Really. It's Nefarion again? All over? Where's my class call, then? Or his fear? Wait, he's not doing either? And I don't need an Onyxia Scale Cloak for the fight? I thought this was just rehashed content? And Onyxia doesn't Deep Breath? Or summon whelps? Where's this rehash content at again?

There's a HUGE difference, people, in "rehashed content" and "returning characters". That's all the Nefarion encounter is, a returning character. That's all the Ragnaros encounter is, a returning character. That's all ZA and ZG are. Returning characters. Hell, heroic Deadmines only had ONE returning character in it in the first place (Cookie). The only real "rehash" of that is the map is the same. Oh noes, Blizzard is running out of ideas! CLEARLY!!!

Jesus, people. You get a great game with fun and exciting encounters, and what do you do. Complain about it. Stop being whiny brats. Go make your own game if you think you can do better. Oh wait. You can't do better. Nobody can.

Quit if you want to over this, but I'll see the rest of you with some sensibility in ZA and ZG. Which will be fun as hell.

[techwolf]

Some of their players like brand new content. Some like revisiting "beefed up" older instances for nostalgia. This is Blizzard trying to please everyone. People will always criticize them because the entire game doesn't revolve around what they think it should.

[Deleted]

75% of the people will more then likely never have done ZG at level 60 in a proper raid. They jsut remember famring it at level 80.

65% of the people will more then likely never have done ZA at level 70 in a proper raid. 85% of the people will more then likely never have done ZA speed run and got the mount.

Stop complaing for blizzard wanting to show off their dunegons that the majorty of the wow player base havent seen the mechanincs to.

stop complaining that they are releasing faster patches.

They are adding in new content also. Throughout the entire WoW expansions they had recycled bosses/raids.

[sicness]

You're upset they didn't spend more time on the 5 man instances, which is only an assumption since we have no clue of the layouts (they could very well be just using the dungeon zone and nothing more for instance). I'd much rather they throw out old 5 man instances for us to do and focus on developing the raids more.

As Fenix said, they've done this before using old zone content and there's a very good reason for that. Redesigning an entire 5 man zone is time consuming, especially if you want it done well. So they're taking advantage of nostalgic players as well as newer players who never got to do that content and likely adding new boss encounter which will likely be similar to the old ones. Also, I honestly can't see them adding the last two ZA bosses for 5 man content, they're just too 'complex' for 5 man dungeons to be honest.

[dyalad]

The revamps they've done are well-thought, inspired and fun. The only beef I have for revamped deadmines and sfk is that there's a lot of squeezed in areas, but otherwise the bosses are fun and engaging.

[Athrai]

Here's my take.

I have played since vanilla. I, as a vanilla player, positively LOVE the revamps to old content to make it viable for max levels.

The sad part is that most people who complain about "omg they're rehashing content QQQ" probably didn't even do the content when it was viable in the first place. What surprises me most is the "omg it's ony and nef again". Really. It's Nefarion again? All over? Where's my class call, then? Or his fear? Wait, he's not doing either? And I don't need an Onyxia Scale Cloak for the fight? I thought this was just rehashed content? And Onyxia doesn't Deep Breath? Or summon whelps? Where's this rehash content at again?.

I clearly stated this was not a QQ thread, more of an opinion piece

Ony and Nef. They still brought back 2 characters we all know and love. Back from vanilla wow. and back from 3.3.0 (I think) They did not bother to make another dragon in the lore. That to me is just being complete lazy. Sure we dont need onyxia scale cloak because they decided that having magical resistances in WoW was to much of a pain for the casual player to farm .. thats why they removed it.

There's a HUGE difference, people, in "rehashed content" and "returning characters". That's all the Nefarion encounter is, a returning character. That's all the Ragnaros encounter is, a returning character. That's all ZA and ZG are. Returning characters. Hell, heroic Deadmines only had ONE returning character in it in the first place (Cookie). The only real "rehash" of that is the map is the same. Oh noes, Blizzard is running out of ideas! CLEARLY!!!

ZA and ZG are rehashed content. Im sure there is no returning characters as far as we can see. No hakkar, No Jin'do the hexxer. They resused the whole map and the whole main concept of Zul gurub again instead of using there brain power in a brainstorming session to make up a new area. Why not something with Silithid? Why not some other race or a whole new concept of it. Cookie is a bad example, He served no purpose in Deadmines before but just a killing for fun. Ragnaros same concept different map. This might be alittle interesting. But they have the exact same character coming back, No unique boss there.

Jesus, people. You get a great game with fun and exciting encounters, and what do you do. Complain about it. Stop being whiny brats. Go make your own game if you think you can do better. Oh wait. You can't do better. Nobody can.

Quit if you want to over this, but I'll see the rest of you with some sensibility in ZA and ZG. Which will be fun as hell

As i said this is opinion piece. Im not complaining. Im saying blizzard is SLACKING at a lot of things.

[sicness]

As i said this is opinion piece. Im not complaining. Im saying blizzard is SLACKING at a lot of things.

You have no real proof of that though, you're only assuming things since we have no clue of what the 5 mans will look like.

Off topic, they did apparently make Ragnaros more 'flaming' now for some reason. I hope that's a joke image.

[Arrowstormen]

people QQ about old days, and how amazing the old raid bosses is.
Blizzard bring back old memories, in new ways, like Nef, SFK and DM. those were all totally new, and even if Nef still was the same, he was not at all the same fight.
Blizzard brings back ZG and ZA, both raids some people missed and had loved, and some most never had tried. people complains, even BEFORE it has been introduced. i mean, the only thing we have seen is knowledge that they will return, nothing else. and then we assume that they will bring back the totally same, and now, the old days are boring, and should never see the sun again.

[Fenixdown]

First off. They brought back Nefarion and Onyxia for a very logical reason. They're Deathwing's friggin KIDS! DO you think Deathwing was going to come back, go "oh snap my kids iz dead, lol oh well"? No. He may hate humanity, but he cares (in his own twisted way) for his children. So, he brought one back to life and that one, in turn, brought back the other. It's completely logical from the perspective of lore and relations. If you had the power to bring back your offspring, you would do the same.

They're not even the same damn model. They're kinda undead looking. Which makes sense. Since, you know...they were dead. Ragnaros doesn't evne look half as much like he did in Molten Core. Literally. He actually has LEGS! And no Sulfuros. He wasn't summoned "TOO SOON, EXECUTUS!" this time. This is a full power elemental lord. He's gonna eat babies, and he won't just sit there and swing a mace around while he then goe sinto phase two to summon lots of fire elemental adds. He might do a knockback. Oh noes, same mechanic is BAD amirite?

Did you even DO MC at 60? Even at 60, the fight was freakin' boring. He had three or four abilities that were spaced out and could easily be handled if not for the fact that everyone in the game was a raiding moron with two things on their action bars to press in half blues with spirit on them. Even Nef was dull. Wait for a class call and hope it's not you if you're the hunter in the raid. His landing phase was more exciting than the actual encounter.

Blizzard isn't slacking at jack. They've made an original Nefarion fight that actually requires some coordination and paying attention for more than once every 20-30 seconds. They're going to make a Ragnaros fight that requires more than taunting and keeping your back to a wall. They're going to make a ZA and ZG that may very well be new and exciting, on top of the fact that both were very well-designed instance layouts.

Hell, not ONLY do I applaud that BLizzard is giving some stuff to the old-school fanbase, I want MORE! I want a heroic Karazhan! Shade of Aran doing Flame Wreath, Arcane Explosion, AND Blizzard...at the same time! Yeha...Blizzard's not being lazy, you have no idea what lazy even is if you think they are.