How about a group knock up in his E+Q Combo. Or, a group slow in his W. Or, a massive Area blocked off with his ultimate? As long as you play Jarvan how he's supposed to be played (Tanky DPS) - You can't go wrong. Last game, I had cries of "You only win because you have the most OP champ Jarvan on your team"
Edit: In terms of pure stats, he's the only tanky DPS to give something to his team as well. Both Irelia and Renekton don't have a group buff, you can't really call others effective tanky dps
Last edited by mmoc9fada5a631; 2011-06-30 at 07:54 PM.
I meant more that pretty unkillable is an exaggeration.
In terms of stats he offers nothing that another champion doesn't offer and almost all tanky dps use the same item set as him, for example on Irelia I almost use the exact same set.
Granted that I'm only lvl 16 and started playing Jarvan at around lvl 6, at the start I totally dominated most matches with 21 kills 0 deaths etc. but once you reach a bit higher level (around 12-ish) he starts to get a lot weaker, when the whole enemy team runs Flash your ultimate starts to feel pretty useless.
While I agree that he can really take a beating the moment you get your FoN, in a teamfight he still dies fast when focused and just charging or ultimating in will get you killed insanely fast, therefore I don't agree with calling him pretty unkillable.
I'm talking about 30 ranked.
He is pretty much unkillable because, sure, they can burn their flash to get out of your ultimate, but then they can't escape your carries. You can also escape with flash + Q+E combo, and you only initiate fights. You force them to attack you, then you get out of there once you've slowed them all (Allowing your carries time to initiate into them). Run out of the fight, that enter back in with your Q+E. jarvan is all about disrupting while taking a beating. If they all flash out your ultimate, then they cant follow you when you flash over walls, or Q+E up cliffs.
Remember, forcing them to blow flash is a win for you. Using your ultimate you want one of two things to happen: You trap a lot of their members in your Catacylsm for your team to pick off or you want them to burn as many summoners as possible.
Jarvan doesn't fall off at level 12, if you don't go straight up defence first. My usual build consists of Philostone > Boots 2 > Trinity Force. After that, you are free to build as defensive as you want, while still putting out a lot of damage. If you're only level 16, then you haven't had a lot of "practice" last hitting your lanes. I don't mean the offensively, but there's such a different playstyle at 30. In general, I can reach about 100 CS within 10-12 minutes, that's roughly 3000g alone from creeps.
Last edited by mmoc9fada5a631; 2011-06-30 at 08:59 PM.
Ahh that's true I guess.
A couple of friends of mine have been playing LoL for close to a year now and are level 30 and I occasionally join their games. So I have a little experience with lvl 30 play. This puts me at a disadvantage though, I only have half of the masteries and no runes but I can keep up with the pace very well and most of the time am top lane and are easily able to hold my own against lvl 30's that have 800 won games.
But you are right, there are a lot of differences when I queue alone and play against people of my own level. There are always 2 people top, 1 mid and 2 bottom. Tanks, supports, junglers, wards and runes are unknown concepts and most games consists of 5 carries vs 5 carries with the occasional tanky dps.
In my own experience with Jarvan, at the start I buy the regen pendant that turns in philo and one health pot. I can easily harass my opponent with Q and stay in my lane till level 6 - 8 and most of the time manage to harass my opponent out of the lane or get a kill with the use of my ultimate and ignite. On my first trip back I get a philo and HoG and those tenacity boots, later I go for FoN, then Trinity, at this moment we either win or the enemy surrenders. I'm still able to get kills and such but it is way harder than the pre-Flash levels and most of the time I have a butt-load of assists while previously I used to have a lot of kills and a few assists.
You're doing it perfectly from what I've read. Your item build is spot-on, but if you're dominating your lane, I'd say get Trinity before FoN, as it will give you so much more lane dominance. And yeah, I went back and made a new account to play with my Real life friend. I know exactly how hellish those games are. Keep sticking at it though, and you'll be playing with the 30s one day. On my first account, once I hit about level 19-20 I was playing vs 30's and could still win my lane, but that's because I really "got" my char (Malz, who I wrote a huge guide for a few posts up)
If you like Jarvan, keep playing him, because you'll become a monster at 30 with enough practice.
May I ask, if the game drags on, what's your general build against a balanced team? (let's say, a tank, AD carry, 2xAP, Support)
My standard order is practically the same for most game. First get philo, then a HoG, then tenacity boots, then Force of Nature, then Trinity, then depending on how it goes I upgrade to either Shurelya's or to Randuin's and afterwards the one I didn't upgrade yet and I can only recall one game were I actually got so far and I believe I bought an Atma's as last item. If we are really, really, really dominating I get a Madred's after I get my Trinity which is complete lulz after you use your E.
I have to admit I only played a handful of games since the latest patch, the one with the slight Jarvan nerfs and the gold/10 item nerf, because the servers are so horrible for EU at the moment. I also started with Garen again (played him before I got Jarvan) and just bought Irelia. For some reason I only do well when I play tanky dps champions, I tend to fail when I play any other role. This is also the reason I decided to try Irelia because I read she could be build pretty tanky, I'm currently also saving IP for Renekton which also looks like pretty tank-ish.
My standard build goes as follows:
Start: Rejuv pendent + health pot
then Philostone > Merc Treads > Trinity > FoN > Atmas > then either Sunfire (AD is farmed)/Banshee's (Double AP carry which is standard EU META)/Quicksilver Sash (if against Malz/WW teams)
I wouldn't buy Renekton if I was you. He's taken a lot of nerfs recently, making him not to good (Irelia + Jarvan IV are the AD tanky atm) - I play the same as you. AD Tanky DPS as well as a select AP carries. Irelia also plays the "anti-tank" role with her W ability
I'm level 28 and I don't have any runes...
I still own though. But if I'm playing with randoms and I get in a team with mentally unstable individuals like most players in the EU seem to be... it results in a loss. Period. Is it just my bad luck or what? I SAW AN AD MORDEKAISER.
Are the US servers with better players? I feel like the only way I can win now is to play with my friends in a premade team. Wards, Oracles, Elixirs, Tanks, Supports, etc. are UNKNOWN by most players in the EU.
I'm starting to lose my faith in humanity.
Anyway, my mains are:
AP Mains: Brand, Vlad
Tank Mains: Mordekaiser, Singed
AD Mains: Nocturne, Shaco
Hybrid Mains: Jax, Ezreal
Tanky DPS Mains: Jarvan IV
Support Mains: Zilean
I guess I like the background, story and looks of different champions and I prefer to have a wide variety of them so I bought a shitload. If I had a full runebook now for any of the above archetypes... I would fucking sunder the Fields of Justice.
Just a few things with your list I would criticize:
Mordekaiser isn't a tank, and shouldn't be built as such. Not anymore. It was viable at one point, but with no control, and nothing to stop a team jumping on his team mates, he falls off quite a lot when you reach higher ratings at ranked. He's nowadays build Pure AP (I've seen a farmed mordekaiser decimate a "squishy" caster with just a W + E combo.
Zilean also doesn't really fall into "support" anymore either. I know what you mean, with his ultimate being able to rez, and a slow, but once that's up...he's a nothing champion. He usually play an "AP carry" role currently, but falls off late game, as his bombs have too long of a CD, and the range on them, means he has to get close. Don't get me wrong, Zilean decimates early game, but once you hit the marks where people are 13-15 he just falls off too much.
I'd also not get too cocky. Ranked and Normal are two seperate games all together. I mean that. When you hit ranked, you will be amazed at the different game style. I know this from experience. When I was levelling, I would play Malzahar and dominate my lane at level 18, vs 30s, I was like "Hah, can't wait to hit ranked and tear this shit up, no elo hell for me!)
What you have to realize is, you can't win it by yourself. It's a team game, and unfortunately, you will be matched with idiots, who will troll you, and intentionally lose. No matter if you go 10-0 within the first 15 minutes. If your team is bad, you will lose (Think of the people that don't ward, auto-attack waves, and need constant "Missing" or "SS" - Luckily where I play, people are smart enough to check the minimap, to see if people are missing :P
Last edited by mmoc9fada5a631; 2011-06-30 at 11:06 PM.
Mordekaiser and Singed are the only two champions I have which I can make tanky. I should have named that "Tanky AP" though.
Though tanking isn't really my thing.
My problem is that my team is almost always bad or there's just 1 good player in it. That's my last 20 games, man. It's horrible. Can't farm IP fast enough because I lose all the time. Most of the times I'm playing LoL I can only play like 1 game with my friends.
Also, I have played 2 games today and the EU server was "Busy" after my League crashed (AGAIN) because of a stupid server error. I'm seriously considering playing in the US servers, though I'll need to start anew, which sucks. But maybe not so much in my case... Not to sound cocky, but I believe I'm very good at this game. I've played a lot of DotA, so when I started it was kind of easy for me. Still, I love games where there are statistics, numbers, different items, different playstyles, etc. I study every champion, every strength and weakness of his in every game and use it, it's just my mindset.
Well, they are switching Europe into 2 seperate regions soon. EU West and EU Nordic. So before you pack off to US, see what happens there. I know exactly how you feel though. I'm good at the game, due to watching high level streams from a very low level. A lot of that taught me the game, and I'm better than 90% of the people I encountered when leveling. I always build around my team and the enemy team.
Oh Leesa, got any recommendations in terms of tanky dps champions?
Currently have Garen, Jarvan and Irelia!
That's all you need for Tanky AD champs. Jarvan/Irelia > Renekton/Garen imo. (And this current patch) - This might change in the future, as Riot likes to buff/nerf champs to see others get the spotlight. There's a new "Tank" champion being released soon, but don't know whether she'll be full tank, or be able to be like jarvan as well
Tanky DPS are few and a couple of them are better than others.
Jarvan and Irelia currently seem to be the strongest, while Renekton, Garen, Trundle, and Yorick are all lacking. Trundle is more of a jungle though, and powerful at ganks, making him as good as the other two top tanky dps.
Thanks to JustintimeSS for the amazing signature.
Trouble is, with Trundle, he falls behind in the jungle compared to the strongest at the moment, which is why I didn't consider him. If i'm honest, to Jungle Trundle, you need to not go tanky, and rush Wriggles, which puts you behind compared to the laners.
Top tier is questionable. I'd say Amumu and Nunu are current Tier 1, with Trundle being Tier 2. But, it detracts from the point. He has a late-game tankydps build, which puts him behind Jarvan/Irelia. Just my opinion though.
Edit: He is amazing at ganking, and chasing down, don't get me wrong. But in my opinion, for tanky DPS to be effective early-mid game, they need Trinity Force as fast as possible, so they can "merge" almost into the role. Getting wriggles puts Trundle (1700g?) behind.