do you want a redesign for ret?

[Scottishpaladin]

wtb wotlk ret back

This, 1000% I have re-rolled Rogue now because they fucked mah class!

[drake741]

I like Prot and Holy far too much to go back to Ret, but from what I hear, it is in great need of redesign.

Funny, I play a shaman too, and the same problem seems to affect them...

[Dark_Spirit]

Well, I dont really care if it is faceroll or not, but I liked when I could use my divine storm as a single target attack.
I miss that cuz the animation. Ye, Really.

[zcks]

The main thing i miss as a ret in Cata is the ability to heal and help my raid/friends in pvp like used to do in wrath. I liked the fact that ret can't top the metters but has(had)the capability to throw a heal to his tank, "save" a raider from death by instant FoL him (without losing much dps)etc. We lost that capacity in Cata, but we didn't gain that much dps.

In fact i don't event want a better dps, i just want to be a real hybrid dps, like we used to be in wrath.

So in a nutshell, just let art of war make my Fol instant again and i'll be happy as a ret.

This ^ is part of the problem with the design of ret.

Ret lacks real direction, as is you can effectively off heal with the dps spec & because the class has no stance/presence/form system it is denied the many of the things it needs as a melee dps because to have access to all of them at the same time would make it "OP". (never mind the fact that it can effectively heal & dps in pve assures it is OP in tank & spank fights)

When it comes to self survivability issues I can agree with you however, there were a couple of tools that wrath ret had which would greatly benefit ret now. Namely sacred shield, as is ret has problems because all of its survivability options are CD based & easily countered.
What the spec really needs is something small-moderate (like a hot or absorb that was immune to dispels, kind of like recuperate) which is always active (self only) & not tied to CD's.

[darkwarrior42]

Maybe some people DO like it?
I have played around 5 classes so far, and I still prefer the way my retridin plays over any other class.

Which part do you like? Being completely reliant on luck to have a decent number of buttons to push? Having a dumbed down version of a combo point system?

I'm being sarcastic, but also serious.... I cannot fathom why one would look at the present design and think it's a good design.

I don't doubt that you have fun with it.... but I don't understand why. So far as I can tell, the only thing even slightly challenging about ret is when you get a lot of procs at the same time and need to know what to hit next, a task that isn't really all that hard (and that assumes you don't cheat and install clcret to remove even that aspect of the class).

[Ikkarus]

ret need some work, for sure, in those days is really hard to see any ret pally in raids or even BG, at moment we are the most bad melee class in WOW, this is really sad ><

[Deleted]

Holy power feels like combo points but much much worse, and inquisition is horrible. Other then that, yes, I do enjoy it

[zcks]

- Holy power is the best thing that happened to Ret;
- Retri needs another HP generating spell / technique / that does holy damage with a low CD;
- Worst crowd controls of the game, must be reworked
- Inquisition is a nice thing but it needs to be less HP eating.

1: That depends, holy power generation definitely needs to be faster but it could be done either by slightly increasing the Crusader Strike CD (to 6 seconds) & adding another holy power generating ability with a short (6 second separate) CD or by simply reducing the CD of crusader strike to 3 seconds.
That way it either is CS, filler, CS, filler, CS, TV or CS, filler, Other HP generating ability, CS, TV.

2: Crowd control & offensive ability (ability to pressure & slow enemies) definitely needs to be reworked. If the spec were to have increased time on targt potential via a stance/presence/form system (which gave access to a more complete toolkit while decreasing the power of some buffs/heals used on allies) then there would not be as much of a need for CC like Repentance. Really that is what should be done anyway as having a melee spec with horrible time on target/gap closing mechanics but strong melee burst & strong off healing only ever creates imbalances in pvp.

3: Inquisition would be fine if the spec has faster holy power generation & a way to generate HP at a rang. As is however Inquisition is to much of a chore to keep active because Holy power generation is slow as hell & far to RNG based.

[Affectionate]

You were extremely bad at Ret in WOTLK, clearly. You have no idea what Retribution Paladins were capable of.

I dont have a link, but there was a guy who had near BiS end of wrath, doing careful perfect rotational play on a training dummy, was about 4% more dps than "closing my eyes and just mashing my 4 attacks for 5min"

so yeah... WoTLK ret was a joke of a spec to play

[Badpaladin]

I dont have a link, but there was a guy who had near BiS end of wrath, doing careful perfect rotational play on a training dummy, was about 4% more dps than "closing my eyes and just mashing my 4 attacks for 5min"

so yeah... WoTLK ret was a joke of a spec to play

I don't think you've played a ret paladin before, then.

1.) Training dummies don't matter
2.) DPS discrepancies were much larger (as a percentage, obviously) than they are now for top parses

Either that means everybody was simply terrible (top 50 and above) at playing a ret paladin in wrath, or once you've reached that peak in playing ability, there isn't much to separate people other than fight time lengths.

[uncannyllama]

if i wanted to play a rogue with combo points id play a rogue...I dont care for holy power. Holy power for ret feels just like a rogue.

[BillyStGlitch]

Holy Power and the gameplay of Ret made me dump my Paladin that I've been playing since the spring of 2005. I despise it, I'd love to see it changed, but thee fact is, I'm only 1 person, and there are many who enjoy the new style, and while it kills me to throw away a character that had almost 6 years of effort, titles and mounts. I can't be selfish and say my opinion matters more than someone else's.

[Strossus]

Of course . At the moment it's one of the worst moments in Retribution history.

You sir never played Vanilla...... Never.

Ret is atm not at its peak, but also far away from being the worst we've seen. I don't like it, because there are lots of stupid things going on with ret.

Wings are too important in PvP, but also purged way to easy. Holy Power is nothing special, too few skills to use it for...

[Williamgood]

Isnt it the most redesigned class of all time?

[Ryme]

People who like facerolling will always hate new ret. The actual good ret paladins love it because its smart and fun. Now see if you can pick out the bad pallies in this post

Any ret worth his salt runs clcret/clcinfo, removes a large portion of what makes it smart and fun. To me, it's a bit... meh, not enough flavour to it.

[Lucreta]

People who like facerolling will always hate new ret. The actual good ret paladins love it because its smart and fun. Now see if you can pick out the bad pallies in this post

I've played Ret since back in BC even when it wasn't a very good spec at all. I still say that going back to the wrath rotation/feel would be a big step backwards and yet I dislike the new version of the spec almost as much. Not everyone who is really turned off by the new mechanics and general feel of the spec want everything to go back to the way it was in Wrath =P

[Lucreta]

still it brought us no good, in the end.
I , for one, really HATE it that they somehow took away the feel of being unique...

Many Blessings,
Many Seals,
Unique Aura effects ( + raid damage AND + Holy damage)
Unique Judgement effects...

Your icon depresses me a lot =/

I'm with you on the loss of a lot of things we used to have though, like the Judgments. I really enjoyed having three different ones that you could choose between and it helped a lot with adding in some extra little things we could do to help people in any area of the game. The loss of seals wasn't a huge thing though considering that half of them were almost never used or were so situational that it didn't really matter much.

I would say that my biggest complaint about the spec now is that it relies on CDs even more than it did previously and it just feels slow in general. You have to wait roughly 9-10 seconds at the -Least- to use one TV or to refresh a buff that shouldn't even honestly be there with how the system is. Using Holy wrath in a single target rotation is just silly since they removed DS for that very reason. Then throw in that half our abilities hit for fairly small amounts compared to most classes because they threw all of our damage into CS and TV and left the rest as small fillers.

In the end it just makes me feel like a warrior in slow motion with a few extra spells tossed in. It's frustrating in pvp to not have a snare (especially in Sota) and it's frustrating in pve to have to try to keep up inquisition on trash that barely makes it past the second CS in non raid instances. I wish I could enjoy ret again like I did before (even in BC I enjoyed it more no matter how much lower I was compared to others) but since this is how they want the class to be this expansion I've just had to sideline my paladin I put a lot of effort into until the next big change to the spec.

[Jonuts]

In pvp rets are outstanding, unrootable, rediculous burst, great healing...I mean what more could you ask for...

Since when do roots not work on me? Oh, yea, I can spam cleanse, until I go oom, then end up rooted anyways. I can run for a few seconds with Freedom, until I get sheeped. Rediculous burst only when people are too foolish to spellsteal/dispel wings, or CC me into oblivion. Your burst is only usable in a situation where you don't really need it anymore, or your opponent is just made of fail. What could I ask for? Offensive pressure outside of cooldowns, or some form of dispel protection with cooldowns. You can take the healing. If I wanted to be your healer, I'd go Holy. Could totally go for a snare, instead of this seal of justice BS. Would be nice if it didn't have to reapplied every 4 seconds as well. Frankly, our time on target is pathetic, and seal of justice will wear off on your target if you get slowed/snared for any amount of time. Pretty much everyone has run-speed increases through talents or boot enchants, so we can be endlessly kited by folks without even being slowed/snared. A gap closer would be great. Long Arm of the Useless doesn't do crap for us really. I <3 DK's that deathgrip me. Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

Current class design completely sucks. Just as mindless (How retarded do you have to be to screw up using CS on cooldown, and whatever is available in between?) as wrath. Yea, I don't really come to WoW for great intellectual stimulation. If I wanted that, I'd go to college. Or play chess. I play WoW to socialize with friends across the country and plant my axe in someones face. Cata paladin design makes me miss BURNING CRUSADE Paladin design, let alone the smooth playing of Wrath. I can't tell if you guys are masochists are that desperate to have a pedestal to stand on to say "I'm better than you!" when you complain about how bad paladins only did 1k or so less than you in Wrath. Of course, in Wrath, 1k DPS was pretty significant (And poor Paladins generally performed more than just 1k under me). When I started raiding Naxx, 1k DPS would have been 20% of my DPS. When I left the country and had to quit the game, 1k DPS was roughly 15% of my DPS. Are you really telling me that being 15-20% better than someone else isn't better "enough" to show you're better? WTF do you want as our class mechanics? I never had a problem showing I was better than other Ret Paladins.

Also, what really confuses me is this. Why do all our fillers have such total crap damage? Who the hell thought it was a good idea to put a meteor mechanic on HW? Seriously though, if the fillers didn't proc divine purpose, you could probably drop all of them and not lose more than 2k DPS. When I can dump most of my abilities and lose less than 10% of damage, something is wrong.

1. Give Paladins Dual wield.

I would *LOVE* this for style purposes. Doubt I'd ever use it though

Improving Sanctity of Battle so that Haste has a greater effect on the CS cooldown, and making it a somewhat better stat.

Even better! Make sanctity of battle reduce the CS cooldown *AND* The GCD of all abilities. That alone would upvalue haste instead of making this massive deadzone where haste only helps if you don't have 2 fillers to use (along with auto-attack and censure ticks). It would also make the hardcap completely unattainable. As is, it'll likely be attainable next tier.

If you honestly want to make the case that WotLK Retribution did not have fewer elements to it that required skill, then I'd love to hear it.

For those who don't know the class, they both played exactly the same. Press the button clcret tells you to press. Looks the same to me in skill requirement

Not some "I got this rotation, and I know exactly what to press at any time", meaning, I truly enjoy a bit on the spot decision making.

Not sure you understand the difference between "Simon says" and "Making a decision". It's like saying "traffic lights produce interesting decision making mechanics". No it doesn't. Either you're retarded and you run the red light, or you're not retarded and you stop for it. Decision making implies a lack of an obvious correct answer. We *HAVE* Obvious correct answers, ergo, it's simon says. When Simon says use TV, and you use judgement, it wasn't a failure of an interesting decision, it was a failure to follow simple instructions. For on the spot decision making, drive through LA traffic on the wrong side of the freeway. THAT is on the spot decision making.

Remember when anyone who was even specced ret was laughed at?

And at least I only had seal of casino at the time, instead of spec of casino.

So in a nutshell, just let art of war make my Fol instant again and i'll be happy as a ret.

I gotta admit, I miss that. But it really was pretty overpowered. Especially since it gave a HoT too.

Any ret worth his salt runs clcret/clcinfo

There ya go with generalizations. I personally find using clcret to be more of a PITA than learning to play.

[NaaBcAke]

At least we got our aoe back Things could be better at single target department tho, i dont mind us being behind DKs and Wars by some 500ish DPS, but 2-3 k is really a bit too much, i dont see reason to make such a big gaps between clasess. Anyhow, with decent proc luck, we can pull decent damage now and then

[Ryme]

There ya go with generalizations. I personally find using clcret to be more of a PITA than learning to play.

It's not a generalisation, you perform better with it than without. As such, every ret worth his salt uses it.