Rawsome foods raided by u.s. government

[Herecius]

It's sad that the "land of the free" has been so inundated with people who think they know best for everyone else that we enjoy far fewer freedoms than most European nations.

Other than pasteurized dairy products, I believe Europe has just as many food-related laws and regulations and permit requirements.

Your cheese is still better though. Freedom of cheese is pretty important, I admit.

[Voij]

The sun is actually a lamp god left on in his college dorm. Prove that wrong please.

Should work using planetary movement, form of radiation, analysis of structure of/elements in the Sun, etc.


On topic:
Maybe some people would realise the danger here if we simply exchanged the word "unpasteurized milk" with "fugu".
Now imagine that they just had a single restaurant instead of a huge company and that they would produce fugu. The chef of the company does not have a license for producing it around him and does not show it to anybody.
He's still preparing fugu. So far, nobody has died.

Does that mean it's suddenly safe to let people produce potentially deadly/dangerous foods as they want, as long as they don't make any statements about having a permit to do so?
I mean, that's kinda the whole point ThePalidius makes here, isn't it? That they could have had a permit, but never told anybody about it. Not even when the police is in front of their door or when they're in jail or in court.
[There's some actual proof that they did not show a permit to anybody yet: They're not free yet.]

It is thus indeed logical to assume that they have no permit. The whole thing would not have gone on for more than 1-2 hours if they just had shown a permit.

[Vanyali]

It's sad that the "land of the free" has been so inundated with people who think they know best for everyone else that we enjoy far fewer freedoms than most European nations.

More like "the land of the free" has been inundated with people that CHOSE not to be informed about topics and CHOSE to create and allow large bodies like the FDA to think about their safety (in food and other things) for them so they can CHOSE to do other things.

[Herecius]

More like "the land of the free" has been inundated with people that CHOSE not to be informed about topics and CHOSE to create and allow large bodies like the FDA to think about their safety (in food and other things) for them so they can CHOSE to do other things.

To be perfectly honest, and call me an uneducated buffoon if necessary, but I would trust a collection of scientists who have spent years of their life earning graduate degrees in health sciences with thinking about my safety in what I eat way, way, way, way before I ever entertain the idea of letting the general populace think about and vote on the same things.

[Magisleeper]

Other than pasteurized dairy products, I believe Europe has just as many food-related laws and regulations and permit requirements.

Your cheese is still better though. Freedom of cheese is pretty important, I admit.

You seem to know alot about this, is there any place I can buy me some 'Freedom Cheese' ?

[Voij]

Those of you that are not familiar, there is a perfectly good reason why us has such strict raw food trading laws. The special permits require regular vet check-up on life stock to make sure that its healthy and free from deadly bacteria. I am not entirely sure why this incident wasnt worked out in civil manner but I think those that called for the raid must of had very good reasons. You have to understand that if this was done in non accordance to protocols then a lot of heads will roll, a lot of high officials will see their careers end over this. The gag order makes it very hard to understand the full weight of the situation and what has led to it.

By operating without proper licenses (which insure the upkeep of govt regulations for safe raw food distribution) these farms were willingly putting people's life in danger. Depending on the size of their customer base and the size of their livestock herds this could have very bad results. The more livestock a farm has the harder it is to maintain each individual animal healthy. Imagine if they have 500 cows producing milk, its not that hard to overlook one that is sick and giving off contaminated milk which is pooled in with the rest of the milk making all of it unhealthy, also we all know that milk spoils fairly fast which means that the containers used to store it must be very thoroughly cleaned, inspected and maintained. The pasteurization process goes a long way to prevent spread of most common food-borne illnesses.


here is one good example of how food can be contaminated if not properly maintained (in this case on a Mexican pepper farm) can lead to outbreaks of illness.

Some more examples




Like I said we dont know the full details of the raid but the FDA regulations do exist for a good reason.

I would like to add the recent EHEC-panic that befell big parts of Germany:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_E....04:H4_outbreak
(Yeah, wikipedia, I know... still best source of information on the net if you look at the average of all subjects.)

[Herecius]

You seem to know alot about this, is there any place I can buy me some 'Freedom Cheese' ?

France, land of the free-est and most wonderful cheese in all the land.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

cooking most foods sucks the majority of nutrients right out of them so man needs to eat twice as much to sustain the nutrients within the body.
It is alot like people who will not eat the skin off a potato because it might be dirty (even though it has twice the nutrients than the rest of the potato.)

Another example would in many countries people eat many types of meat raw and it does not effect them because their bodies have built up immunities to things that would kill your average pussified American.

Hell I remember as a Child I remember seeing my mother eat bits of raw hamburger meat while preparing it for dinner and she had done so her entire life without problem (other than the occasional case of the squirts) yet now days everyone believes eating raw hamburger will undoubtedly hospitalize them.

In short the human body develops immunities to germs,bacteria when those same germs,bacteria are constantly forced onto the body however when these same germs,bacteria are not constantly reintroduced to the body the immune system cannot fight them and they become deadly.

Some vitamins can be rendered unusable by the cooking process, but overall, it is far healthier to eat the majority of foods cooked. The only foods you might want to eat raw are things like fruits because of how easily destroyed vitamin C is.

And yes, eating shit raw your whole life can help you build a resistance to the bacteria contained in those foods, but you're still more likely to die doing that than eating cooked food. Say one guy eats raw food and the other eats cooked food. A 20% chance to die 5 or 10 times is a worse rate of survival than a 50% chance to die one time.

[Stuffs]

France, land of the free-est and most wonderful cheese in all the land.

But they always get invaded by Germany

[Vanyali]

To be perfectly honest, and call me an uneducated buffoon if necessary, but I would trust a collection of scientists who have spent years of their life earning graduate degrees in health sciences with thinking about my safety in what I eat way, way, way, way before I ever entertain the idea of letting the general populace think about and vote on the same things.

Exactly my point

We chose to say "yeah, we trust you FDA. decide what's good for us".

The general populace, as I said before, has no idea of what's what when it comes to food and food preparation, myself included.

[Almighty1]

It's sad that the "land of the free" has been so inundated with people who think they know best for everyone else that we enjoy far fewer freedoms than most European nations.

I dont think you know what you are talking about. There is a reason why these regulations exist. Massive production of food creates a lot of room for contamination which has led to deaths and these regulations exist to prevent that. Organic farming is perfectly legal if it follows proper procedures to maintain integrity of their products. These regulations exist for our protection weather you like it or not, if you dont understand that then you are just plain ignorant.

[skrump]

What if that grass had bacteria in it? What if the cow was sick? What if the milk got contaminated? What if alien space rays turned that cow into a robot-unicorn-death hybrid planted here on this earth to annihilate mankind via the power of milk? We'd never know without that regulation!

More seriously, there are plenty of 'natural foods' that are quite harmful to you in their raw and natural state. Just because it's natural doesn't mean it's good for you.

Laws should not be passed to put the issue of WHAT IF to rest.

Nobody should have to surrender their rights because of a WHAT IF until it turns into "IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY"

Even if Raw milk hospitalized roughly 15,000 people in the U.S a year it still doesn't warrant being outlawed, If it killed 15,000 a year on the other hand I might be a little more sympathetic to a law that bans it.

[Deleted]

OP is biased.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Laws should not be passed to put the issue of WHAT IF to rest.

Nobody should have to surrender their rights because of a WHAT IF until it turns into "IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY"

Even if Raw milk hospitalized roughly 15,000 people in the U.S a year it still doesn't warrant being outlawed, If it killed 15,000 a year on the other hand I might be a little more sympathetic to a law that bans it.

If it hospitalized 15,000 people out of the 200,000 people who consumed it?

[Herecius]

Laws should not be passed to put the issue of WHAT IF to rest.

Nobody should have to surrender their rights because of a WHAT IF until it turns into "IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY"

Even if Raw milk hospitalized roughly 15,000 people in the U.S a year it still doesn't warrant being outlawed, If it killed 15,000 a year on the other hand I might be a little more sympathetic to a law that bans it.

I don't normally say this, but are you insane? If anything hospitalized fifteen thousand people it would be pretty serious shit. Anywhere. In the world. Ever. A disease is considered having a serious outbreak if like... 20 people get infected from it. 15 thousand would be like a brand new bubonic plague or something.

Moreover, it's not even banned, it merely requires a special permit. A permit these folks did not have.

[Vanyali]

If it hospitalized 15,000 people out of the 200,000 people who consumed it?

They're not dead, they're not important.

Apparently.

[Remilia]

OP is biased.

It felt more copy and pasted but whatever.

Didn't read anything! So I may be redundant!

Pasteurization has been done for a long time to avoid health risks, its not that weird they're trying to enforce FDA regulations, and such. All of the news posted was obviously bias, can't do anything about that. Only thing that isn't pasteurized is cheese product that has been aged for over a year(?) or so.

[ThePalidius]

Laws should not be passed to put the issue of WHAT IF to rest.

Nobody should have to surrender their rights because of a WHAT IF until it turns into "IT'S HIGHLY LIKELY"

Even if Raw milk hospitalized roughly 15,000 people in the U.S a year it still doesn't warrant being outlawed, If it killed 15,000 a year on the other hand I might be a little more sympathetic to a law that bans it.

this is the post i most agree with! defend the liberty and freedom of choice for all or it perishes! it is not fair to expect freedom for you but not for others, even if their lifestyle choices are odd in your opinion, unsafe in your opinion, or whatever.

i love freedom above any other choice.

[Zadiell]

Now, that's quite a different matter altogether. It's very true that many laws are passed by big companies lobbying, but milk pasteurization is not one of them. Having to pasteurize the milk actually makes things more expensive for the companies, not cheaper. Why would they lobby for a law that hits their bottom line? It was the FDA that lobbied to pass the law, following studies done on pasteurization.

Now, on the other hand, we could look at those studies, see if the results were swayed by some corporation, but again, the question is why?

The problem of GMO seeds being patented is also very unrelated, and also a pretty serious problem. It has nothing to do with the healthyness, as you say, and everything to do with the patent. The proper thing to do in my opinion would be to pass a law making it legal for farmers who harvest their own GMO seeds to plant those seeds and sell the resulting crop. On the other hand, there is also an FDA mandated reason why GMO seeds have to be sold from a supplier to have the crop sold, that being it's really the only way to be sure that the resulting crop isn't modified in some way that could potentially be harmful to those who consume it.

There's a lot of layers to this issue, but none of it has to do with a massive government conspiracy against Rawsome foods.

There's a lot of debate about that, raw milk is good for you, but it can't be sold the same way pasterized can, shelf life is short etc, I don't know everything about the raw milk issue, but from what I gathered raw milk is very good, but it has to be fresh and purchased locally, but pasterization kills alot of good bacteria too, so to me it should be a personal choice not a governmental choice. I am quessing the choices made on pasterizing milk had more in mind the business side, mass producing and the safest, but if precautions are taken, raw milk can be better, just has to be baught at more of a local level, not supermarkets.

I don't think its a conspiracy like that, but all it takes is a few people to pass a law and people will simply do their job, without question.

I just think people should get involved more in their choices, and not assume every law and regulation passed is done for the good of the people. The GMO stuff scares me, cause GMO products don't have to be labeled as GMO, I personally don't trust GMO products, I'm sure some of it is fine, but to me millions of years of humans, animals eating natural, over a company trying to turn a profit


The way I see it, a company has to answer to stockholders, by making more profit each year, if you follow this pattern, eventually the product will suffer, if the consumer base doesn't grow, then a company has to cut into the quality, make things cheaper, faster, might involve using drugs on cattle etc, to me its more the nature of business that's the real issue.

[Herecius]

this is the post i most agree with! defend the liberty and freedom of choice for all or it perishes! it is not fair to expect freedom for you but not for others, even if their lifestyle choices are odd in your opinion, unsafe in your opinion, or whatever.

i love freedom above any other choice.

There is a difference between freedom and anarchy.