Dev Watercooler -- Threat Level Midnight

[VanishO2]

Why do you guys cry so much! Waaaaaaaaaaaa! If you don't like the way blizz is handling the game quit.

"cry so much" gave you real-id party free instead of premium.

So go figure.

[Cloudwolfe]

Most tanks jumped for joy whenever someone would propose these types of changes.

Then most tanks are terrible and have no idea how to play or enjoy their role being dumbed down so much that anyone with a keyboard can play as well as them where threat is concerned.

[Deleted]

Feels like made for bringing more tanks for LFD instead of helping with raids lol.

[Deleted]

It made people pay attention to what they were doing. ...

This is what makes me feel uncomfortable with this change. It's only going to mean people in random dungeons paying even less attention than they do already (which isn't much).

I don't want tanking to be made easier just because people are so obsessed by their recount read-out that they have to charge in whirlwinding/arcane-blasting as soon as my Avenger's Shield has left my hand and not even reached it's target.

I would rather have the opposite happen, so that players benefit from showing a little appreciation/understanding of the mechanics of the game, and learn to function as a team to get the job done. Sometimes I want to pull the mobs to me. Sometimes I might even want to LoS them around a corner. Crazy I know! ...

... My worry is that this is just going to increase the number of runs where the dps charge around like toddlers tanked up with Sunny-D pulling everything they like because it's now easy for the tank to get aggro. I don't really want to play that sort of game, but sadly because 5-mans are now solely for mindlessly zerging through as quickly as possible just to get your Valor Points, I can see why this change might be considered "a good thing" for some...

[Korru]

At least tanking will be less stressful/annoying

[AutomaticBadger]

I like the changes. My Warrior can actually do some proper DPS now without pulling agro instantly. That and I might go back to Paladin tanking depending on how everything turns out. Threat was never really a problem as you either had it all or none, with the pull being the hardest 30 seconds of the fight, so this change really changes nothing.

I really hope we don't move the DK tanking model though. Maybe make it a more viable option to WoG tank or to actually give us a chance to swap between the 2, WoG and SotR

[Deleted]

when will the hotfix go live?

[Sephiracle]

So, the change affects you, since you are good, obviously, and helps some bad players for the first ten seconds of a fight. Are you seriously arrogant enough to say that this makes the game "ezmode" and is catering to bad players? It doesn't affect you. At all. Unless, of course, you are a bad player.

I quit a few months ago. I just find the hilarity in giving WLK Icy Touch threat to all classes suddenly makes the game better. It fails to punish players performing badly which in turn hurts a greater portion of the game population. You encourage bad players to fulfill roles they can't handle and then you dumb down portions of the game to compensate. You had DK's back in WLK needing snap threat, they made the change to Icy Touch. Dk's then used just Icy Touch to hold threat and did little else.

People fall into the routine that threat is easy and is irrelevant, then months down the road they rethink the tanking model. Threat matters a little bit more and you get the frustration that you have now from the bads.

[Etou]

Wait, people were having threat issues? Wat. I mean, the only threat issues I know of are bear tanks with AoE, and warriors with snap AoE to a lesser extent.

Bear AoE threat at 85 has always been fine. AoE Mitigation used to be a problem, but that's largely fixed. This change will make Warriors who are just starting out (ilvl 330 - 350) a lot easier. I have a warrior alt that I don't get the opportunity to gear as well as it could be, and when I run into a ilvl 372+ dps, keeping aggro is almost impossible. I have to sacrifice a lot of my damage mitigation to hold aggro. Lately, I've had to reforge to hit/exp and away from mitigation stats to hold aggro against these guys. I assume a lot of them are farming Chaos orbs.

On my bear this was never a problem, so I won't see an issue with this at all. I think this is an excellent change especially considering the tank shortage. Gearing a new tank with people running around in FL gear is painful right now, with the elitist tards such as those on full display here doing nothing but making the process that much harder.

[Nosferato]

hmm this will also make prot pvp tanks more op towards other melee ,like rogues who can dispell the enrage and then a sec later its back to what it where hitting just as hard

[NeVeRLiFt]

When will crowd control matter? Not the under geared tanks trying to use it... I mean serious full geared out parties in heroics should not just be able to zerg. Fixing threat is nice but at the same time they're just opening the door even wider for people to zerg heroics which is not always fun.

[Xuvial]

Cool post Ghostcrawler, any word on PvP balance issues? *silence*

[Deleted]

Everyone says that this was un-needed, and there were other things they could have been focusing on. What ARE those other things? Rather than just come here and say "ZOMG THREATZ EWER FINE, IM GOING TO BE SOOOO BORED NOW," tell us what YOU would fix.

I personally like the changes. When I have threat, I'm having fun. When a Fury Warrior (my main is fury, off is prot, both specs are 370+) is popping all his CD's on the pull, getting salved, I'm getting MD'd, and he's still about to pull threat... I'm NOT having fun. The biggest issue is the lack of hit and expertise, and until they fix that whole issue with nearly all tanks, threat was going to be (and is still going to be) inconsistent. So, I welcome any threat changes they make.

AND... If threat was the last bastion of hope you had in Blizzard and WoW, and you would SERIOUSLY quit over this, I would hate to be your employer.

Its your own fault if you pop all CDs at the beginning of the fight knowing you will be close to pull or getting one-shot by the boss. And its your own fault aswell for using mastery sockets instead of something like hit. How much does a tank get from 20 mastery? How much from 20 or even 40 hit? Its not blizzards fault if you listen to the mainflow that tells you to go for full mastery and whine afterwards "I cant hit the boss, I wear full +370 and loose threat to a green arcane mage". Its possible to have at least 1-2% hit without looseing the same amount of mastery.

[McFrotton]

When will crowd control matter? Not the under geared tanks trying to use it... I mean serious full geared out parties in heroics should not just be able to zerg. Fixing threat is nice but at the same time they're just opening the door even wider for people to zerg heroics which is not always fun.

Lol and many on forums complain that they want to zerg heroics that it was fun in LK becuz you could have a blast in a 15-25 minutes dungeon , I love it when its new and hard nerf over time with gear (and blizz nerf) is alright this makes it easier to gear up alt (lets be honest I dont want to grind on EVERY damn alt every damn dungeon)

[VanishO2]

Long time tank, I approve. Anyone whining, you`re just a baby that whines about everything here, seriously. my tank alt is at an ilvl 353 or something, all gem, enchants, gear.. I can`t go into a ZG/ZA and with people doing 20k+dps, more on trash it`s pretty annoying that my most watched CD is my taunt. It`s not about "casual" it`s about something that is a problem for people in general, we`re not all bear druid crazy tank threat, and you`re just ignorant if you think "dur threat is already ez".

Your (and "everyones") problem is as buff called "Luck of the Draw" on randoms.

Ppl hardly have problems running randoms with ppl they know (a.k.a friend/guild groups) because they communicate to each other and they know that they're with the buff increasing their dps/threat.

[Etou]

When will crowd control matter? Not the under geared tanks trying to use it... I mean serious full geared out parties in heroics should not just be able to zerg. Fixing threat is nice but at the same time they're just opening the door even wider for people to zerg heroics which is not always fun.

Because CC is was about threat management, amirite? FFS, there are so many of these freaking moronic posts on this by supposed "elitists" it's mind boggling. Want to CC, then QQ about damage done being too low not threat.

[Deleted]

Your (and "everyones") problem is as buff called "Luck of the Draw" on randoms.

Ppl hardly have problems running randoms with ppl they know (a.k.a friend/guild groups) because they communicate to each other and they know that they're with the buff increasing their dps/threat.

Now guess because of who this change is coming...

[Zka]

It made people pay attention to what they were doing. It's just another example in the long line of Blizzard dumbing down WoW to the lowest common denominator. After the first 30 seconds of a fight there's nobody within half of my threat and my guild's DPS all hover between 25-28K. It's just a completely unnecessary change that makes the game more boring for people who weren't bad in exchange for making it easier for people who get a headache trying to think about more than one thing at a time.

If that's the case you won't miss out on anything, right?
Read the whole post: they do it because they want to shift your job as a tank towards active mitigation instead of the current model, where threat and mitigation both play a small role. (unless you're a dk because then you are already playing their future model) They want threat to play a very minor role and active mitigation play major.
Sounds interesting to me.
As a side effect, random low skill pug tanks will finally not suck as much on threat, but they will need more heals. Which is not a big issue imho.

[TriHard]

TL;DR *Get me some 4.3 info asap bitches.

[feigning]

I quit a few months ago. I just find the hilarity in giving WLK Icy Touch threat to all classes suddenly makes the game better. It fails to punish players performing badly which in turn hurts a greater portion of the game population. You encourage bad players to fulfill roles they can't handle and then you dumb down portions of the game to compensate. You had DK's back in WLK needing snap threat, they made the change to Icy Touch. Dk's then used just Icy Touch to hold threat and did little else.

People fall into the routine that threat is easy and is irrelevant, then months down the road they rethink the tanking model. Threat matters a little bit more and you get the frustration that you have now from the bads.

But that's the thing. Threat doesn't matter right now. Sure, on my hunter if I don't Misdirect and/or Feign while bursting at the start of a fight fully buffed, the tank can say goodbye to threat normally. Thing is, if you play with players doing that, then you have a bigger problem than threat. If your raiders are already doing everything right, then threat hasn't been an issue for a some time. This really only affects those players who really just suck and mash their buttons to make numbers appear. It's not going to make a huge difference to players who already know what to do. And the best part is, in the few situations where the tank needs to grab threat asap and while also on the move, I don't need to hold back quite as much if Misdirect/Feign Death are on cooldown. My point is, this change is pretty circumstantial for good players and really only affects some players a lot. And all it does is make pug tanks not want to rip their eyes out!

And if threat becomes an issue again down the road, then we'll adapt for that. It would've happened either way, so it's really not an argument against doing this I think.