Gandalf vs. Dumbledore

[OrcsRLame]

Then why was he playing a cheerleader in most battles and didn't use any magic? He could have saved countless lives. I have read the books by the way and he basically just let children fight and die, not to mention a lot of soldiers. He could just have cleared the battlefield with 1 spell if he was so powerful. Instead he was just riding around, cheering people and occasionally whacking an orc with hes sword.

And about the immortal part, that may be true although he did die fighting the Balrog. After that, he was given time to to only finish hes work but not remain. But let's assume he was immortal, even then, Dumbledore could have just trapped him in ice or sent him into another dimension or something.

For starters, Gandalf did remain after the third age. He NEVER let children fight and die. If you're referring to the hobbits, none of them died, and they were all about in their mid 40s, so hardly children. Clearing the battlefield with one spell would have ultimately lead to a total loss of the war. There are three giant battles in the war of the ring that Gandalf was involved in. Helm's deep. Gandalf only arrived at the end, and once he got there things were well under control. Minas Tirith. The battle of Minas Tirith was part of Gandalf's master plan, it was a trap. It was designed to keep Sauron's gaze fixed on his army, instead of looking for the ring. Even the Ringwraiths were there, instead of hunting down Frodo. If Gandalf had gotten rid of the entire orc army in just a few seconds, that would have very likely gotten Frodo killed due to Sauron moving his forces, and the Ringwraiths back to Mordor. The battle at the black gate was the same thing, a distraction.

Point number 2. Using magic weakens Gandalf. It makes him physically tired. Because of this he doesn't like to use big powerful spells unless he absolutely has to. As I said before, he attempted to use the most powerful spell in existence against the Balrog, but the Balrog is immune to magic, which Gandalf didn't know at the time.

Gandalf does actually use this spell one other time, though he doesn't unleash as much power as he could. Once again, Gandalf is a minimalist. Anywho, when the Witch King and the other Ringwraiths are chasing Faramir after losing Osgiliath, Gandalf releases a small blast of the Flame of Anor to drive them back. Which nearly kills them and their hellhawks. In the movies this is cheapened to a small ray of light coming out of Gandalf's staff. If you're familiar with Dragonball Z... It would have actually looked more like a kamehameha wave coming out of his staff.

The Flame of Anor is part of the Secret Fire, the spirit of Illuvatar, and the breath of all life. Using that power isn't something that Gandalf does lightly. When he has no reason to use it he doesn't just hit it for the lawls. And it looks to me like Gandalf used it the exact correct number of times. In the end everyone that could have been saved from the shadow was. The war that spanned thousands of years was finally over and the world was at peace. Really hard to argue with those results and say that Gandalf should have done more, when him doing more could have doomed them all.

[Deleted]

Gandalf killed the Balrog with a magic sword, Dumbledore died like a bitch.

[Arlee]

Read the books.

That's exactly what I was thinking... so many responses make it clear that people haven't read the books.

---------- Post added 2011-09-01 at 02:31 PM ----------

For starters, Gandalf did remain after the third age. He NEVER let children fight and die. If you're referring to the hobbits, none of them died, and they were all about in their mid 40s, so hardly children. Clearing the battlefield with one spell would have ultimately lead to a total loss of the war. There are three giant battles in the war of the ring that Gandalf was involved in. Helm's deep. Gandalf only arrived at the end, and once he got there things were well under control. Minas Tirith. The battle of Minas Tirith was part of Gandalf's master plan, it was a trap. It was designed to keep Sauron's gaze fixed on his army, instead of looking for the ring. Even the Ringwraiths were there, instead of hunting down Frodo. If Gandalf had gotten rid of the entire orc army in just a few seconds, that would have very likely gotten Frodo killed due to Sauron moving his forces, and the Ringwraiths back to Mordor. The battle at the black gate was the same thing, a distraction.

The other part is that Aragorn had to walk the Paths of the Dead and make peace with the souls there and have them help in the defeat of that battle. It was part of his journey towards being able to legitimately reclaiming the throne. That battle had to happen and had to go the way it did. Also... the steward of Gondor would have never relinquished the throne as was his duty. Because things went the way they did he was gone and Faramir (a much better man) was left in charge.

[Kalyyn]

Then why was he playing a cheerleader in most battles and didn't use any magic? He could have saved countless lives. I have read the books by the way and he basically just let children fight and die, not to mention a lot of soldiers. He could just have cleared the battlefield with 1 spell if he was so powerful. Instead he was just riding around, cheering people and occasionally whacking an orc with hes sword.

And about the immortal part, that may be true although he did die fighting the Balrog. After that, he was given time to to only finish hes work but not remain. But let's assume he was immortal, even then, Dumbledore could have just trapped him in ice or sent him into another dimension or something.

Gandalf is all powerful. It can be assumed that he simply does not wish to reveal his full power to Sauron. Individual lives mean nothing to one such as Gandalf. His interest is in saving entire nations.

[OrcsRLame]

That's exactly what I was thinking... so many responses make it clear that people haven't read the books.

---------- Post added 2011-09-01 at 02:31 PM ----------



The other part is that Aragorn had to walk the Paths of the Dead and make peace with the souls there and have them help in the defeat of that battle. It was part of his journey towards being able to legitimately reclaiming the throne. That battle had to happen and had to go the way it did. Also... the steward of Gondor would have never relinquished the throne as was his duty. Because things went the way they did he was gone and Faramir (a much better man) was left in charge.

That too, Aragorn is kind of important.

[Gothicshark]

Read the Books , The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion. You will find that the magic of Middle Earth is what all Modern Fantasy used as a base, Wizards did battles with fire balls, Lightning, pure death, demons, ghosts, and other things. I read HP and I did enjoy the books, and Dumbledorf was a bit of a Badass and he was gay which gives him props in my book. but he never had to face a balrog which is a Chief Demon from the pits of hell.

[Kerath]

Gandalf, clearly.

[Arlee]

Gandalf, clearly.

I don't know why but at first I read that as Dumbeldore... and I was all like "Kerath I am Disapoint".... and then I realized that I just can't read lol

[Deleted]

Read the Books , The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, Silmarillion. You will find that the magic of Middle Earth is what all Modern Fantasy used as a base, Wizards did battles with fire balls, Lightning, pure death, demons, ghosts, and other things. I read HP and I did enjoy the books, and Dumbledorf was a bit of a Badass and he was gay which gives him props in my book. but he never had to face a balrog which is a Chief Demon from the pits of hell.

Dumbledore was gay? That was never in the books, i would have remembered. Ian McKellen who played Gandalf was gay.

[Arlee]

Dumbledore was gay? That was never in the books, i would have remembered. Ian McKellen who played Gandalf was gay.

It wasn't in the books but in an interview JK Rowling said that in her mind in creating him she did envision him as being gay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7053982.stm

[Deleted]

It wasn't in the books but in an interview JK Rowling said that in her mind in creating him she did envision him as being gay.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7053982.stm

Ah, so it is canon if JK said it, thats cool with me. I just thought i had missed something in the books.

[Activi-T]

Dumbledore apparates in and points his wand at Gandalf.

"Silencio"

"Whats that Gandalf unable to call forth any sacred flame, lols."

"Avarda kedavra!"

Continue infinitum. Good game Dumbledore

[OrcsRLame]

Dumbledore apparates in and points his wand at Gandalf.

"Silencio"

"Whats that Gandalf unable to call forth any sacred flame, lols."

"Avarda kedavra!"

Continue infinitum. Good game Dumbledore

Dumbledore apparates in and point his wand at Gandalf. "Silencio" Gandalf puts up a giant energy shield that blocks all magic. The Silencio spell is ineffective. "Avada kedavra" The instant death spell hits the shield and fizzles out. Gandalf holds out his hand, takes Dumbledore's wand, paralyzes Dumbledore's limbs, draws Glamdring The Foe Hammer, and chops Dumbledore in half. Gandalf does all this without saying a word or using his staff. Silencio would be ineffective even if Gandalf couldn't block it because none of Gandalf's spells have a verbal component.

In fact, when Gandalf said, "I am a servant of the secret fire, weilder of the Flame of Anor. The dark fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun." That was not a chant to use the Flame of Anor. The Balrog is the Flame of Udun. He was addressing the Balrog by his formal name, taunting him, because the Balrog is a sentient being, not a mindless monster.

Gandalf is not Saruman. He does not need the power of his voice to cast spells. Nor does he need his staff.

[muto]

Dumbledore apparates in and points his wand at Gandalf.

"Silencio"

"Whats that Gandalf unable to call forth any sacred flame, lols."

"Avarda kedavra!"

Continue infinitum. Good game Dumbledore

Obliviate would be a better choice as it erases ones memory. Dumbledore then could have just laughed at him...

[OrcsRLame]

Obliviate would be a better choice as it erases ones memory. Dumbledore then could have just laughed at him...

Btw, I would just like to point out that such things wouldn't effect Gandalf either due to being a demi god. Just because something effects a human, doesn't mean it effects Gandalf. Not to mention he has literally dozens of ways to defend against such a spell anyway. From spell shields to teleports to preemptively blasting his opponent with lightning, Gandalf can do it all.

If Gandalf could be beaten by simple mind effecting spells he would have been a pawn of Sauron before the third age even began. That was how Saruman fell. He used a palantir, which opened his mind to attacks. He then saw Sauron in the palantir, much like Pippin did in Return of the King. Unlike Pippin, Sauron used that opportunity to dominate his mind and corrupt him.

Just to clarify, Gandalf would be immune to all mind effecting spells because he doesn't have a mortal mind. His very being is sustained by the spirit of Illuvatar. That Secret Fire makes Gandalf impervious to virtually anything. Did you know the Ringwraiths are all sorcerers? Sorcerers that can cast much more fearsome and evil spells than Dumbledore. They have a spell called the black breath which attacks your mind and your soul. It causes overwhelming fear, and weakens you to attacks from the spirit realm. It's a spell that gets stronger each time you're exposed to it, and ordinary mortals won't survive being hit with it more than once without magical healing.

Gandalf is immune to the black breath. The Ringwraiths fear him because he is virtually impossible to hurt and there's no way they can counter him. As Gandalf the Grey, 5 wraiths, (I think it was 5, may have been 4) attacked him at night, when their magic is most powerful, and Gandalf forced them to retreat.

[Catta]

The magic used in harry potter is PATHETIC. It seems really weak, its like their most powerful spell kills you slowly. Well yeah, but surely if I have a shotgun...I still win? Gandalf would just stab Dumbledore with a sword, which then kills him.

Edit: Oh and you need your wand. What if I just sneak in while you're asleep and hide it, or break it, or take it. You are then useless and get stabbed with Gandalf's sword.

You mean the projectile is slow or...? Well... for one Gandalf would need to find Dumbledore first... Dumbledore can freaking teleport where he shouldnt be able to do so... He can make thousands of shards of glass into sand... Surely they have spells against mere projectile weapons in harry potter... Gandalf wouldnt stand a chance... Dumbledore is the best magic user ever... Gandalf use some magic which wasnt much of anything and the know how to use a sword... When you bring magic to a sword fight... guess who wins

---------- Post added 2011-09-02 at 01:01 AM ----------

Gandalf is all powerful. It can be assumed that he simply does not wish to reveal his full power to Sauron. Individual lives mean nothing to one such as Gandalf. His interest is in saving entire nations.

in the books Gandalf and Sauron was the same kinds of beings... akin to angles... But speaking of magic... Dumbledore is superior

[Sal the Shieldhog]

You mean the projectile is slow or...? Well... for one Gandalf would need to find Dumbledore first... Dumbledore can freaking teleport where he shouldnt be able to do so... He can make thousands of shards of glass into sand... Surely they have spells against mere projectile weapons in harry potter... Gandalf wouldnt stand a chance... Dumbledore is the best magic user ever... Gandalf use some magic which wasnt much of anything and the know how to use a sword... When you bring magic to a sword fight... guess who wins

---------- Post added 2011-09-02 at 01:01 AM ----------



in the books Gandalf and Sauron was the same kinds of beings... akin to angles... But speaking of magic... Dumbledore is superior

As said, Gandalf's magic physically weakens him, even if it's more powerful. In a one-on-one fight, all Gandalf would have to do is this, and he would be weakened.

It's akin to a level 60 mage trying to solo Ragnaros. The mage casts Ice Lance, Ragnaros laughs and uses his hammer.

[OrcsRLame]

As said, Gandalf's magic physically weakens him, even if it's more powerful. In a one-on-one fight, all Gandalf would have to do is this, and he would be weakened.

It's akin to a level 60 mage trying to solo Ragnaros. The mage casts Ice Lance, Ragnaros laughs and uses his hammer.

Using his magic physically weakens him. If he used enough power to force himself to sleep it would be enough to end the world in seconds. It is perhaps Gandalf's one weakness, but it's an almost impossible weakness to exploit because if you can bait him into using too much power, you have to survive being the bait...

---------- Post added 2011-09-02 at 12:10 AM ----------

You mean the projectile is slow or...? Well... for one Gandalf would need to find Dumbledore first... Dumbledore can freaking teleport where he shouldnt be able to do so... He can make thousands of shards of glass into sand... Surely they have spells against mere projectile weapons in harry potter... Gandalf wouldnt stand a chance... Dumbledore is the best magic user ever... Gandalf use some magic which wasnt much of anything and the know how to use a sword... When you bring magic to a sword fight... guess who wins

---------- Post added 2011-09-02 at 01:01 AM ----------



in the books Gandalf and Sauron was the same kinds of beings... akin to angles... But speaking of magic... Dumbledore is superior

Read my previous posts. There is NOTHING Dumbledore can do to hurt Gandalf, even with the Elder Wand. And Gandalf has literally dozens, maybe even hundreds of ways that he could kill Dumbledore. And please do not insult Glamdring by implying that it is useless simply because it's a sword. Magic sword of more epic than you can imagine > mortal magic.

How about this. How about an ultra Dumbledore nerd explains to me all the ways that Dumbledore could beat Gandalf, and I'll explain to you why it wouldn't work.

Edit: It's cool Shadow-cleave.

Another Edit: Actually I misread your post! I thought that you were saying that it's easy to weaken Gandalf, and that it would be like a 60 mage trying to solo Rag, with Gandalf being the mage and Dumbledore being Rag. I now see my error, you were clearly referring to Gandalf as Rag.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

Using his magic physically weakens him. If he used enough power to force himself to sleep it would be enough to end the world in seconds. It is perhaps Gandalf's one weakness, but it's an almost impossible weakness to exploit because if you can bait him into using too much power, you have to survive being the bait...

Who could survive being the bait? Certainly not a mortal, like Dumbledore.

And besides, Gandalf would be to smart for that. C'mon, we're talking about a guy who outsmarted one of the most evil villains of all time. Dumbledore outsmarted a 16 year old kid and a half-snake dude on a massive ego trip.

EDIT: Missread your post sorry >.>

[Deleted]

Gandalfs plan was thousands if years in the making, he pisses on dumbledore.