The Cat Guide - 4.3

[SmokeyIllidan]

I am willing to wager that mastery builds are topping H-Staghelm is because active bleeds retain the % damage buff after you've lost it yourself. I don't know what kind of uptime there generally is for it, but that's my theory. Last I checked, the 10th parser for H-Staghelm was a haste build.

This is wrong, the bleeds do not retain the legendary concentration bonus if you lose it while they are applied. At least I'm 90% of this based on my own experience. I had the #3 parse on Domo Heroic for a while, and I use a haste build. It's since been bumped down to #9, but I haven't done a parse with the new 391 weapon yet. I'm intrigued by this though, its such an annoyance favoring haste over mastery both for reforging, and when I have to go bear as haste is crap for them. It's a shame the way matrix is designed, otherwise I'm sure mastery would still be our top stat.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4t.../?s=913&e=1424

That's the parse I had for Domo, good bleed up time but I think what really helped was good OOC procs during add phase, the swipe damage is rather high. 7 ravages isn't bad either, though I'm wondering what a good average number of ravages should be. I too have been attempting the feral leap when domo leaps out, however it can be tricky and if done wrong, you land in the fire momentarily and lose your buff.

[Williee]

How do you guys time your charges w/o clipping the fire he leaves behind when Domo leaps sometimes?
Ive tried it a few times only to lose my conc buff because i clip the fire.
Also, do you only swipe if its domo+ 1 add or you w8 til 2.
For my guild, I rarely get the chance to dps the adds. They live for about 5 seconds at most.

[MasterNewbie]

This is wrong, the bleeds do not retain the legendary concentration bonus if you lose it while they are applied.

That's slightly strange. I suppose it is like that so dot classes aren't as overpowered as they could be.

[Xenerix]

Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

and here with mastery reforge:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/

[Machida]

Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

and here with mastery reforge:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/

You also got quite lucky with CC procs on the mastery tries . even those up and haste would pull ahead .

[Mr.Pineapple]

silly question: aside from the awesomeness of turning into a fire kitty, why is fandrals staff better than ranseur in the Caps>Haste>Crit>Mastery build that is advised in this guide?

appologies if this has been answered before. i'm not reading through 2200 posts.

[SmokeyIllidan]

How do you guys time your charges w/o clipping the fire he leaves behind when Domo leaps sometimes?
Ive tried it a few times only to lose my conc buff because i clip the fire.
Also, do you only swipe if its domo+ 1 add or you w8 til 2.
For my guild, I rarely get the chance to dps the adds. They live for about 5 seconds at most.

When he leaps out, I take a step or two in the opposite direction as he comes closer, depending how far the ranged he leaped to actually was. This hopefully gives him enough travel time so I don't land in the fire. I've only started doing that recently though.

silly question: aside from the awesomeness of turning into a fire kitty, why is fandrals staff better than ranseur in the Caps>Haste>Crit>Mastery build that is advised in this guide?

appologies if this has been answered before. i'm not reading through 2200 posts.

Fandral's is 2nd BIS technically. But the difference is so minimal that most will choose Fandral's for the effect. However after having it a mere two days I don't feel as impressed by it as I was hoping. At some point I may use Heroic Ranseur for min/max. But it's really not a huge loss either way.

[calibro]

Better give hunters those 391-upgrade thingys, so you have fandral's and they have upgraded boe = raid dps wins ;D

[Machida]

How hard should it be for blizz to take the positional requirement off shred for pve but keep it on for pvp ?
is it even possible to do it ? kinda back to hating it now on ragnaros (p2 the most but also when you get unlucky with smash )

[Deleted]

While I don't think it's necessary anymore with the gear we've gotten since we started farming FL, I used a special spec with NR (18% passive reduction in bearform), and 3/3 Furor, sacrificing my interrupt and free ravage I think. This way, the healers had an easier time and I wouldn't lose as much DPS since I would start with 100 energy after switching back to cat. Stuff like making sure the bleeds are just refreshed going into bear form are nice too, just watch your threat as the bleed ticks will get the threat multiplier.

But I guess it really depends on your guild. Our DPS has always been phenomenal while our healers have held us back, so sacrificing some of my DPS so the healers would have an easier time came pretty naturally.

+20% healing taken > -18% dmg taken tbh

[tangedyn]

+20% healing taken > -18% dmg taken tbh

-18% damage taken is better than +20% healing, because of the way percentages work differently.

Let's say you take 100k damage.
With 2/2 Natural Instinct, your healers need to heal you (pre-NI) for 100000 / 1.2 = 83333
With 3/3 Perseverance, your healers need to heal you for 100000 * .82 = 82000

[Deleted]

*Natural Reaction, not Perseverance :P
yea you're right, but the 1% difference is not worth the loss in dps.

[Rioo]

-18% damage taken and +30% healing taken = win. At least in 10-man where RNG can really screw you over sometimes it's really good to be able to take 25 stacks easily without external CDs or the full focus of a healer.

[Deleted]

in 10-man maybe, but in 25-man 25 seconds of bear form is such a huge waste...

[axxey]

in 10-man maybe, but in 25-man 25 seconds of bear form is such a huge waste...

Deliberately stupid? You don't sit in bear form for 25seconds, just the last 10-15 when your cooldowns are actually important.

Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

and here with mastery reforge:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/

Feral buff scaling makes target dummy pretty rough return, get an enhance shaman for windfury/SoE and a paladin or something for 10% AP. The missing 3% damage done and 4% physical taken effect scaling differences between the builds much less.
The missing windfury especially skews the difference between them.

[Bigslick]

Behind good humor there is usually good truth (or an ice cream truck)

[Shiba500]

Cat haf meny clauz an wen sumbuddy tuch cat, maybee cat skrach him.

Oh, this isn't that thread? Shame.

REMEMBER ALAMO!

[Deleted]

Deliberately stupid?...

Why so mean answer? Stupid is being in bear form in fight where dps is so important .... oh wait, it's 10-man (now i'm mean:P)

[Deleted]

Feral buff scaling makes target dummy pretty rough return, get an enhance shaman for windfury/SoE and a paladin or something for 10% AP. The missing 3% damage done and 4% physical taken effect scaling differences between the builds much less.
The missing windfury especially skews the difference between them.

Being grouped with either a frost DK (horn of winter + improved icy talons) or a shaman (strength of earth + windfury totem) would cover all relevant buffs rotation-wise, for the agi buff and the attack speed buff. The other buffs don't affect our rotation, just how hard we hit (+10% ap / +3% dmg / +4% physical damage)

[Rioo]

Why so mean answer? Stupid is being in bear form in fight where dps is so important .... oh wait, it's 10-man (now i'm mean:P)

Don't bring that 10v25-man shit into this thread too. It's not like 25-man raids are hitting the enrage anymore with the nerf either. 10-man was about dealing with the RNG of countdown, improvising on the spot sometimes while still pumping out some crazy rDPS.

Me going bear for a total of 10-15 sec on a fight that last 6 minutes won't wipe us or make me lose any game breaking DPS, especially with 3/3 Furor and refreshing my dots before switching. This is even more true on 25-man where one DPS makes less difference. What it will do is allowing healers to easily stack up their stacks so solo tanking won't be a problem, and can be a raid saver on those bad RNG tries that a 25-man raid wouldn't know about. One healer gets linked and that's half your healing force. Even without a blade active they'll need some help, especially when they still wore 359/372 gear.