[Megathread] StarCraft 2

[bajerman]

Blizzcon is this weekend isnt it?!

[Migey]

Mobile shield battery?

Sounds interesting, but the balance will be hard to get right. Either too underpowered or overpowered.

[angael]

4 words:
Dark Templar Rush FTW

2nd: Carrier RULE too bad you have an 0.1% change of seeing one in a tournament or stream :X

99.99% of all statistics are made up

lol. DT rushes do rule. Especially when you do them on ladder and get called a NERD before your opponent rage quits.

[bajerman]

Mobile shield battery?

Sounds interesting, but the balance will be hard to get right. Either too underpowered or overpowered.

I think they'd be able to balance it. Can't possibly be more overpowered than force fields.

[Alraml]

I think they'd be able to balance it. Can't possibly be more overpowered than force fields.

Without forcefields protoss would just die to all ground armies.

[bajerman]

Ya but I'm zerg...

[Alraml]

We lose forcefields and you lose fungal growth, sounds fair?

[Migey]

A shield battery sounds essentially like a Medivac?

With a medivac-ish unit, that would be just too strong. Shields already recharge anyway, and protoss units are really powerful. The only reason medivacs work with Terrans is because it only works on bio units - and bio units don't have a ton of health. Every toss unit has shield. And imagine that with mothership? 10 of these shield batteries cloaked by a mothership, keeping it alive, with a small deathball hidden under it? Yay. Not OP at all.

[Alraml]

A shield battery sounds essentially like a Medivac?

With a medivac-ish unit, that would be just too strong. Shields already recharge anyway, and protoss units are really powerful. The only reason medivacs work with Terrans is because it only works on bio units - and bio units don't have a ton of health. Every toss unit has shield. And imagine that with mothership? 10 of these shield batteries cloaked by a mothership, keeping it alive, with a small deathball hidden under it? Yay. Not OP at all.

Even if this is true, they're gonna be super heavy on gas. I wouldn't say 125 HP on a marauder is low. 1 EMP on stalkers and marauders instantly have more HP. I don't see how any of what you said won't die to vikings with micro

If it's true it's intended to prevent Protoss completely dying to EMP without having to nerf the ghost

[Migey]

We lose forcefields and you lose fungal growth, sounds fair?

Thats the most unfair thing i could possibly think of. Toss will get destroyed by Zerg and Terran, and Zerg will get destroyed by Terran. But hell yeah! Go for it!

In response to your last post, EMP has a fairly small range and requires alot of energy. While it is a very strong tool against Protoss, it isn't quite imbalanced. Marauders do have a fair bit of health, but thats why they can only target ground units - so that air can kill medivacs without being killed by Marauders (of course you bring Marines into the mix but its all balanced fairly well).

Back to EMP - Stalkers are large, and EMP is small. EMP rarely hits more then a few Stalkers at a time, and thats why Blink doesn't cost energy - to give Stalkers a chance to survive being EMP'ed. I can't remember if EMP costs 75 or 125 energy, but either way, it's alot. Especially when you add the cloak energy cost which is generally required to give Ghosts a good shot without getting killed - 25 energy up front, and draining more every second. Also, two of toss' most powerful tools have a strong chance of inadvertantly killing Ghosts - Collosi and Storms. Both are used reguarly and are aoe. Ghosts are not blessed with a whole ton of health - a few Collosi lasers or a few seconds in a storm and gone.

I do agree that ghosts are a powerful tool against Toss, but a shield Battery is not the way to counter that.

Also, it is quite interesting, when you start breaking it all down, to see just how well the game is balanced. For all i dislike Blizzard, hats off to them for an amazing balance job in SC2.

[Poppasan]

So, if any of you read Teamliquid, you should know that Blizzard invited Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaedong and Bisu to Blizzcon. I posted in that thread with this comment ''I would love to see them play a bit of SC2, just to see how it goes'' After that I get bashed all the way down to hell by all people saying ''BW IS BETTER THAN SC2 YOU SHALL NOT POST ANYTHING HERE!!!11!!'' I'm like what...? What's up with the BW elitists?

[Coalex]

So, if any of you read Teamliquid, you should know that Blizzard invited Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaedong and Bisu to Blizzcon. I posted in that thread with this comment ''I would love to see them play a bit of SC2, just to see how it goes'' After that I get bashed all the way down to hell by all people saying ''BW IS BETTER THAN SC2 YOU SHALL NOT POST ANYTHING HERE!!!11!!'' I'm like what...? What's up with the BW elitists?

yeaaaaaaa i stopped going to teamliquid's site because of those idiots. sc2 has had a bigger impact then bw, it has brought more people to the GSL then bw, bigger prize money at tournaments, so really i have no idea why they think BW is still greater then sc2. idiots.

[Migey]

I never even played Brood War...

Can i ask what people think of my suggestions for the reaper on the last page?

[seam]

I disagree with your reaper change.

It's already a really strong harrass unit(Even today!), and has it's uses.

The thing is, though, it's PURELY a harrass unit. It's not meant to be in the main army. And 7 range would be kinda crazy(They could kite roaches without speed again, and Lings with speed. And be even better against Queens.)

[Xacez]

So, if any of you read Teamliquid, you should know that Blizzard invited Jangbi, Fantasy, Jaedong and Bisu to Blizzcon. I posted in that thread with this comment ''I would love to see them play a bit of SC2, just to see how it goes'' After that I get bashed all the way down to hell by all people saying ''BW IS BETTER THAN SC2 YOU SHALL NOT POST ANYTHING HERE!!!11!!'' I'm like what...? What's up with the BW elitists?

Go to the Warrior forum and start to talk about Frost Mages. You don't go to a LoL forum and tell people to play HoN, it's common sense. It has nothing to do if you're elitist or not, but if you actually pay attention to their BW forum you daily see people posting about how awesome SC2 is and how terrible BW is, people get pissed, this is the Internet.

On another note, TotalBiscuit just announced his new show.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=276870

[Migey]

I disagree with your reaper change.

It's already a really strong harrass unit(Even today!), and has it's uses.

The thing is, though, it's PURELY a harrass unit. It's not meant to be in the main army. And 7 range would be kinda crazy(They could kite roaches without speed again, and Lings with speed. And be even better against Queens.)

The 7 range was so that it could fire from behind marines or marauders. Perhaps 6 range would work?

And the problem is that reapers are a heavy investment. If there is a cannon or anything to prevent you harassing,then those reapers are useless and you have wasted valuable resources. This way, they would have more utility in battles - yet still not be overpowered due to low health. Perhaps thier speed could be lowered? Or thier speed increased by 0.2 and the speed upgrade removed? They see very little use as it is right now because if you fail with them, you have no other use for them - and a plan that cannot change is one doomed to fail. Most pro players prefer to use more versatile units.

[seam]

They would need a significant nerf. 4.5 to 6 range is actually huge(Though it might not sound like it).

Even at 4.5 range, they can only just not kite roaches endlessly(When roaches were 3 range they could), and they can already kite queens forever.

It also makes them much stronger vs Toss. Zealots already can't catch a reaper ever.


And if they keep the low health pool, they wont see army play still. Reapers actually do good damage against Lings, and Zealots(And Marines), but they die so fast.

For them to be useable in an army setting, without making them insane for harassment, they would have to be completely redesigned.

[Migey]

The range is intended to make them good for armies, but 7 range is more then will ever be needed for harassment anyway, and the extra long cliff jumping makes harassment difficult. Also, Zealots with charge can easily catch reapers, unless the reapers hugely outnumber the zealots - although zealots will only get one hit in per charge, they only really need 2 or 3 hits to kill a reaper.

I think that with lower movemtn speed, my changes could work. And they really do need to be redesigned, because they don't see much use.

[seam]

Zealots don't get charge until 10+ minutes...

Edit: Sorry, had an emergency phonecall, didn't get to finish my thought.

My fear is early game reapers, not late game reapers. That's why I brought up Zealots not getting charge for so long.

[Migey]

That would be easy to combat! Increasing the time it takes to build them would be crude, but it would work. Otherwise, perhaps having them require both an engi bay and factory to make? Or potentially even incorporating them into the ghost academy - they do seem sort of covert - not your simply rax soldier. Thier speed upgrade already requires a factory, so perhaps they could be built at a factory, or further incorporated into the factory?

Another idea would be to reduce thier speed significantly (to about marine speeds) but make thier upgrade speed the same as it is now (with the upgrade). Also, making the upgrade more expensive and take longer (since it gives more benefit). Potentially the upgrade could be at a factory tech lab?