So is it a MMORPG? Official reviews posted

[Aroa]

Note that these aren't review. They are only impressions/previews. And the gaming sites that released the info are only allowed to play on the republic side up to level 15 or so (the first two planets).

[turlockmike]

Whooo, 10 hours of gameplay is enough to judge a whole game. Nope. I have logged over 150 hours of gameplay and I have to say, the game gets better and better each time I play. The game is amazing, all of the polls on the tester forums have hugely positive responses to the game. I stopped playing wow except for raiding because of how awesome and amazing swtor is. Just wait and see for yourself.

[Sollis]

Ofc there are groups quests in swtor but you can do them with you'r companion.It's all up to the player how he wanna play it.You can play it as singleplayer rpg or mmo.I like the choice.

Of all the heroics I've done, only one was done just me and my companion (it was a heroic 2). There are a lot of heroic 4 quests - you would be really hard pressed to successfully complete those quests with just you and your companion (not to say it can't be done, it would just be incredibly challenging).

[jvbastel]

why are people getting upset about the massively article by the sandbox guy?

It's good that they gave both him and larry a beta, since it shows impressions from both sides of the spectrum.

TOR is probably one of the most linear theme parked AAA mmorpg's ever, so of course someone who prefers sandbox games will not be extremely excited. He did give some valid points as to what he didn't like. Did he say it's a bad game? No.
10 hours is quite long to judge a game ( most single player games don't even take 10 hours to beat nowadays), if you're not going to like it by then, you probably never will.

I don't want to hear 1000's of people say how every aspect of this game is awesome, since that's obviously not true. Every game has its flaws, having people point them out leads to a better game

Not everyone will like the game, accept that fact and you'll be happier

[Zeerid]

I honestly don't think 10 hours is enough time to judge an MMO. They are barely scratching the surface of the 2nd planet at that time and haven't really had the time to develop their character.

[jearle]

It is an extremely theme park game, leveling process is very straightforward.

Single player experience is amazing, opportunities to group are available around every corner.

Read Trolls comment about everything the game has, it is definitely an MMO.


Kind of funny that usually the people who say OMG theres no grouping this isn't an MMO or LOL single player.

Are the same ones who sit in a city and queue for everything because "Who wants to talk to people and form a group?"

[Smitzelplix]

why are people getting upset about the massively article by the sandbox guy?

It's good that they gave both him and larry a beta, since it shows impressions from both sides of the spectrum.

TOR is probably one of the most linear theme parked AAA mmorpg's ever, so of course someone who prefers sandbox games will not be extremely excited. He did give some valid points as to what he didn't like. Did he say it's a bad game? No.
10 hours is quite long to judge a game ( most single player games don't even take 10 hours to beat nowadays), if you're not going to like it by then, you probably never will.

I don't want to hear 1000's of people say how every aspect of this game is awesome, since that's obviously not true. Every game has its flaws, having people point them out leads to a better game

Not everyone will like the game, accept that fact and you'll be happier

I don't think people are actually mad at the review. I think they're mad at Puremallace, Pure's posts can easily be seen as trolling, or maybe Pure is just overly critical of the game and really doesn't portray their criticisms in a constructive manner. Also this entire topic is just one big troll thread or at least highly misinformed, Pure is accusing the game of being a single player game and not an MMO. But it's obvious he hasn't even bothered reading the front page of the SWTOR thread made by Trollsbane because if he did then he would of found this article.

http://www.curse.com/news/star-wars-...-old-republics

This article is dated 28 Apr 2011 many months before this current press NDA lifting, and this article is all about group content. If Pure would of actually done some research then we wouldn't even really have this topic going on right now.

The fact of the matter is that SWTOR does indeed have a leveling process that rivals a single player game, something which a certain "king" of MMOs is also trying to do but honestly falters at. But with that said even though the leveling game can be played like a single player game if one chooses, there are plenty of opportunities for grouping within SWTOR like the article above makes plainly obvious, if one were to actually read it that is.

[Ozires]

I think the whole problem here is that they haven't released anything on the flashpoints during leveling and on whether it's even possible to farm them for levels like in wow (granted, a brand of playing which is majorly due to the questing in wow sucking so immensely much). Also they haven't really started markething the operations which in my book is a huge mistake. It reinforces the perception swtor is just leveling with cinematics and then nothing afterwards. Which is of course false, but trolls don't take the time to go to the swtor website and start researching, and neither do most other raiders who should be excited over what swtor (hopefully) brings to progression.

BW should start showing the end game content asap and if it's not done yet, then I don't think there's any point in even releasing the game 20.12. The end game needs to be solid and it needs to BE there as a goal, because lets face it that's what it is. The end game and not the questing is what's going to be a gamebraker to all of us who are tired of playing wow after 6 years and want to find a new home. I'm not saying the storyline isn't important, we have none in wow atm and hopefully it's going to destroy all the hate there is for leveling these days. However, good rpg is icing on the cake, it won't matter if the cake isn't there. Right now we just don't know whether it is.

[Bearshield]

First off, the impression I got from reading several of those reviews is that most of those people didn't play a whole lot on any one character. Some of them didn't even seem to be aware of all the roles their class was capable of filling. Secondly, story is a big focus of this game from what I understand. Story is central in any RPG and at it's heart, an MMORPG is still an RPG. There has been a trend in recent years to push the story aspect of these games to the side and when a new game comes along that goes against this trend, the anti-story people come out of the woodwork and claim the game has story therefore it must be single player. And really for all the complaining, you can completely fast forward through all the story if it really annoys you that much.

[Puremallace]

I don't think people are actually mad at the review. I think they're mad at Puremallace, Pure's posts can easily be seen as trolling, or maybe Pure is just overly critical of the game and really doesn't portray their criticisms in a constructive manner. Also this entire topic is just one big troll thread or at least highly misinformed, Pure is accusing the game of being a single player game and not an MMO. But it's obvious he hasn't even bothered reading the front page of the SWTOR thread made by Trollsbane because if he did then he would of found this article.

If anything I am probably the biggest fans of this game for the simple reason that it will put a heavy hit in WoW subs and Blizzard needs another wake up call. We have been stuck in the same merry-go-round for 7 years thanks to one product that has monopolized the market and it is time for change.

Rift took a little bit out of, but it was lacking in 3 (any review confirms this)areas like size, re playability, and immersive story. If ToR can cover those three and have the features that Trion gave me that game will be beyond huge.

If the only deciding factor between playing WoW or ToR becomes "well I have more time invested over here", then Bioware is set because as I have said before the Star Wars fansbase is more massive then the Warcraft fanbase ever was.

[jvbastel]

Snip

Well I think that's because they are trying to focustheir advertisement on the non-mmo playing bioware fans, rather than the general MMO audience. If you're already into mmo's, there's no way you haven't heard of SWTOR yet. End game raid instances just won't look as interesting to people outside the genre, I think.

But it would be nice to finally have some real info, the few raid videos we got might as well have been wow videos, so I really want to know how they plan to spice it up.

[Smitzelplix]

I think the whole problem here is that they haven't released anything on the flashpoints during leveling and on whether it's even possible to farm them for levels like in wow (granted, a brand of playing which is majorly due to the questing in wow sucking so immensely much). Also they haven't really started markething the operations which in my book is a huge mistake. It reinforces the perception swtor is just leveling with cinematics and then nothing afterwards. Which is of course false, but trolls don't take the time to go to the swtor website and start researching, and neither do most other raiders who should be excited over what swtor (hopefully) brings to progression.

BW should start showing the end game content asap and if it's not done yet, then I don't think there's any point in even releasing the game 20.12. The end game needs to be solid and it needs to BE there as a goal, because lets face it that's what it is. The end game and not the questing is what's going to be a gamebraker to all of us who are tired of playing wow after 6 years and want to find a new home. I'm not saying the storyline isn't important, we have none in wow atm and hopefully it's going to destroy all the hate there is for leveling these days. However, good rpg is icing on the cake, it won't matter if the cake isn't there. Right now we just don't know whether it is.

Well they have already been discussing Eternity Vault which is their first Operation (Raid), they also have a second Operation they're preparing to launch as well. They have also said there will be end game flashpoints (dungeons). How much information do you think they can give before they spoil everything? Personally I don't want them to market the end game to the point where there is nothing surprising about the game. All I want to really know is how many bosses each Operation will have which I think EV has five but no info about the second Operation is really known.

[jvbastel]

Well they have already been discussing Eternity Vault which is their first Operation (Raid), they also have a second Operation they're preparing to launch as well. They have also said there will be end game flashpoints (dungeons). How much information do you think they can give before they spoil everything? Personally I don't want them to market the end game to the point where there is nothing surprising about the game. All I want to really know is how many bosses each Operation will have which I think EV has five but no info about the second Operation is really known.

Well, we know there will be 2 raids, and what the group sizes are, that nothing.
Will there be lockouts, how many difficulties will there be, will it just be trash-boss-trash-boss.
there's a lot of stuff we don't know. The biggest thing being:

Are raids the only endgame?

If they are I'll be a very sad pandaren

[Puremallace]

Well I think that's because they are trying to focustheir advertisement on the non-mmo playing bioware fans, rather than the general MMO audience. If you're already into mmo's, there's no way you haven't heard of SWTOR yet. End game raid instances just won't look as interesting to people outside the genre, I think.

But it would be nice to finally have some real info, the few raid videos we got might as well have been wow videos, so I really want to know how they plan to spice it up.

This is my theory. Pretty sure we all know most Star Wars fans are console gamers and this could be why a lot of what we have seen is focused on Hutt Ball and battlegrounds. From my view if you wanted WoW players you would do what Rift did and show mostly gameplay vids out in the world.

Most of what I have seen is panoramic shots of the cities, cgi, and the battlegrounds in e-sports style presentations with a live announcer.

[Smitzelplix]

If anything I am probably the biggest fans of this game for the simple reason that it will put a heavy hit in WoW subs and Blizzard needs another wake up call. We have been stuck in the same merry-go-round for 7 years thanks to one product that has monopolized the market and it is time for change.

Rift took a little bit out of, but it was lacking in 3 (any review confirms this)areas like size, re playability, and immersive story. If ToR can cover those three and have the features that Trion gave me that game will be beyond huge.

If the only deciding factor between playing WoW or ToR becomes "well I have more time invested over here", then Bioware is set because as I have said before the Star Wars fansbase is more massive then the Warcraft fanbase ever was.

Well see you don't really do a good job of portraying this Pure. Some of your posts come off as overly critical at best, trolling at worst. It is hard for one to think of you as a fan of the game even a little with some of your posts. To a casual observer of your posts it would be kinda easy to view them as attacks. I just think your a critical MMO fan which is cool, but I think you need to make your motives more open. I would of never took you for a fan if you didn't actually say it just now.

And yeah I too hope that TOR can actually push Blizzard to do better with WoW. I don't really want there to be a WoW killer ever, mostly because I fear that would make the company to pull it off start slacking like Blizzard did with Cataclysm.

[Puremallace]

Well see you don't really do a good job of portraying this Pure. Some of your posts come off as overly critical at best, trolling at worst. It is hard for one to think of you as a fan of the game even a little with some of your posts. To a casual observer of your posts it would be kinda easy to view them as attacks. I just think your a critical MMO fan which is cool, but I think you need to make your motives more open. I would of never took you for a fan if you didn't actually say it just now.

And yeah I too hope that TOR can actually push Blizzard to do better with WoW. I don't really want there to be a WoW killer ever, mostly because I fear that would make the company to pull it off start slacking like Blizzard did with Cataclysm.

I come off as a prick because I dealt with them in Rift so far for 7 months. Right now I do not believe anyone who says they are a fan of this game unless they can show me some Star Wars credentials. I find alot of sites two face and ready to turn on a game in a dime and only try and make money off the hype.

Sites hyping up stuff saying ToR is the next DAoC or ToR has soul swaps like Rift or dual spec like Rift to get hits on their sites only serve to spread mis info.

My example holds true. If you fix the areas that Rift is lacking and put a major IP behind it this game could be freaking huge. I see some areas where ToR plays like Wow, but there are some big differences and if the NDA would drop people could see them better.

This is not some ringing endorsement, but in my view it does work like a mmorpg from my Beta experience. The reviews so far have been so piss poor that people are questioning if it was a single player rpg because they never talked about the mmorpg part of the game lol

[Ozires]

@ Jvbastel and CrimsonKing

I know, personally I thought the Eternity Vault preview looked great and was pretty much exactly what I was hoping for the operations to be like. Reminded me of Ulduar except no annoying loot leviathan. Though I'm still hoping they will put at least some more effort into actively endorsing the endgame, spoiler or not, since it is a brand new game and I think it's important to get a feel for what the fight mechanics are going to be like. I know there's people like me who aren't even subscribing to wow anymore and are going to try out swtor no matter what, but if swtor wants to grab any of the wow crowd (and I'm assuming it does), players will need some time to think about switching and whether they want to pay the ~50 bucks for the game + subscription whilst still playing wow sub fees. It's after all a big decision to abandon all the hard work you've put on your charachters in wow. Though I guess this can just as well be done after launch too, for me it just seems like some sort of a magical deadline on whether the game is going to attract the raiders or not. And I'm sick and tired of all the people painting swtor single player because the info on flashpoints isn't out yet.

I understand they're trying to market it to the star wars crowd and get them interested in playing mmos, but I'm a bit sceptical about that. You can make alts and do the storyline sure and I bet it's even great, but any mmo is going to end up being a grind in the end and if you don't already like it on some level, it's hard to get you to do that. I'm happy to be proven wrong on this point though, and I'm sure some will take the bait. Given the popularity of the franchise that might even be enough. It's all good, just as long as I don't have to endure a lot of fanwars about (for me) unimportant details of (in my opinion poorly acted) star wars movies in flashpoint groups. For me swtor is about getting to experience the mmo genre anew in a compelling and beautiful setting whilst getting to pwn some sith all over the planets, warzones and Ilum.

"I am also a huge fan of bioware games, but not a big fan of MMOs. I got a chance to try out a tester weekend and I found that I liked the game. I am planning on playing through the story then getting Mass effect 3 when it comes out."
"I’m going to get it and play it as mostly single player until I’ve had my fill with all the classes I want to play, and then stop playing. If that takes more then a month, fine, but I don’t think it will."

Taken from one review's comments. This is exactly what I'm afraid will happen. Fans of kotor just aren't fans of mmos and you can't force them.

[Puremallace]

The hope is they have watched Rift closely and seen how a polished mmo launches and what kind of critiques it gets. The assumption is they have noticed:

1. People tend to not respond nicely to class changes, so go figure they are trying to get this mostly right
2. Content has to release bug free, stay that way, or get fixed REALLYYYYY fast
3. Content pace has to be relatively fast
4. MMO 101 if we have not learned it by now. WoW is the only mmo allowed to released only raids and keep subscribers. Everyone else must do something different. <---biggest hypocrisy in mmo genre right now