Light Side Points / Dark Side Points

[Deleted]

I was poking around the official site today, and one of the videos included a developer mentioning something about gaining Light Side and Dark Side points.

Is there some information about this mechanic that I've missed? Can people switch sides by accumulating enough LSPs or DSPs?

[Sollis]

You can't switch sides as in you rolled a Consular, but your choices are Dark, so now you are a Sith. Whatever you roll, you will always be that. But you DO make morality decisions that can affect whether you are acquiring LS or DS points. It has an impact on your story, how your companions react to you (not that you are dark, but if you make choices they dislike, you will lose affection), and it will affect the look of your gear (but I think not the stats, just the look). If you ever played KotOR, it's very similar to that.

[Deleted]

You can't switch sides as in you rolled a Consular, but your choices are Dark, so now you are a Sith. Whatever you roll, you will always be that. But you DO make morality decisions that can affect whether you are acquiring LS or DS points. It has an impact on your story, how your companions react to you (not that you are dark, but if you make choices they dislike, you will lose affection), and it will affect the look of your gear (but I think not the stats, just the look). If you ever played KotOR, it's very similar to that.

That's sort of what I was expecting, it just struck me as a bit odd since to an extent part *of* falling to the Dark Side is becoming a Sith (or at least sith-like).

Does it have any game mechanical effects at all, or does it just affect your look?

[Karteli]

In addition to the above, it was talked about a little at GamesCon 2011. You can't switch from Empire to Alliance, or vise versa, but you can become a light side Sith, or a dark side Jedi, from choices throughout the game. In these cases you are essentially "flying under the radar" of the watchful eyes of your masters.

If sometime later you decide you want to switch Force sides, it is possible, but will be a major undertaking, done through additional questing and some sort of farming and / or flashpoint crawls. The difficulty in switching is unknown, but likely to be something you won't choose to do very often.

---------- Post added 2011-11-03 at 09:12 PM ----------

That's sort of what I was expecting, it just struck me as a bit odd since to an extent part *of* falling to the Dark Side is becoming a Sith (or at least sith-like).

Does it have any game mechanical effects at all, or does it just affect your look?

Affects your appearance via usable gear (same stats LS vs DS though).

Also affects companion attitude, available quests, questlines (choosing DS and killing a NPC will nullify some quests but open up others for example), overall story, character titles, and possibly which races / NPC's want to like you or attack you (need confirmation on the later though).

I could see it affecting more stuff to add flavor, but I haven't seen updates on morality in awhile. I haven't been looking either though, maybe someone else has extra info.

[philefluxx]

That's sort of what I was expecting, it just struck me as a bit odd since to an extent part *of* falling to the Dark Side is becoming a Sith (or at least sith-like).

Does it have any game mechanical effects at all, or does it just affect your look?

Well not necessarily. An Imperial Agent can uphold the rule of the empire with the best intentions because he or she believes that what the Empire stands for is right. The problem is the term Sith has always been referred to as the "bad guys" because all we really knew about the Sith was they were force users who choose the path of the darkside. I try to use the term force user instead of Sith or Jedi because it can get really confusing.

But as far as the game goes, you can either be for the Empire or the Republic. Within that faction, you can choose to be morally good or bad.

[Deleted]

Well not necessarily. An Imperial Agent can uphold the rule of the empire with the best intentions because he or she believes that what the Empire stands for is right. The problem is the term Sith has always been referred to as the "bad guys" because all we really knew about the Sith was they were force users who choose the path of the darkside. I try to use the term force user instead of Sith or Jedi because it can get really confusing.

But as far as the game goes, you can either be for the Empire or the Republic. Within that faction, you can choose to be morally good or bad.

I agree that makes sense for non-Force-users, but not so much for Force-Users. I get that this is mostly a gameplay mechanic, but it feels odd to me to be playing (say) a Light-Side Sith Inquisitor but still go around blasting people with Force Lightning.

[stompyomouf]

it feels odd to me to be playing (say) a Light-Side Sith Inquisitor but still go around blasting people with Force Lightning.

Same here. It would be awesome IMO if there was a way for a Counceler to collect a ton of dark side points and then go through a cool quest and actually become a sith inquisitor or something like that. I dont see the big deal expecially since they are pretty much the same roles just different faction. In the lore, you see Jedi turn to the dark side all the time. You really dont see many sith turn to the light side, except Vader for about 2 minutes. Maybe if they made the change perminate and irreversable it might be more appealing to the devs.

[Rufcat]

Think of it like this: if you're a Republic class but go down the dark path, it's like you're destroying the Republic from the inside. If you're an Empire class and go down the light path, you're destroying the Empire from the inside.

[Ifro]

Think of it like this: if you're a Republic class but go down the dark path, it's like you're destroying the Republic from the inside. If you're an Empire class and go down the light path, you're destroying the Empire from the inside.

You are basically saying that by going the counterintuitive way of your faction you are kind of making yourself a double agent for the other side?
It's an interesting way to think about it even if it isn't an official connection.

[Osskssa]

Think of it like this: if you're a Republic class but go down the dark path, it's like you're destroying the Republic from the inside. If you're an Empire class and go down the light path, you're destroying the Empire from the inside.

I dont think its like this at all....if your Republic going Dark means your a selfish person looking out for number one, dont mean your destryoing the republic your only one person. A light side Sith wants to do things a different way to help the Empire, im sure he aint out to destroy it just make it better from his /her perspective.

[Jawstrock]

This sounds more like a good or evil of DD then Light side/dark-side of the force.
Also Dark side doesn't mean Sith. Sith is a cult, that is well renowed in their delving in the Dark-side of the force, but you are part of them or you are not. The Sith doesn't have a monopoly on the dark-side of the force(Just like the Jedi don't have a monopoly on the Light-Side of the Force.)

The Sith cult though, is usually very cruel in their training, which makes redemption to the Light-side very difficult. You usually have to murder someone you love or care alot about to finish the training.

There are many stories of Dark-side users turning tot he light-side though. Usually through self-sacrifice. (Most of them though, like Vader, end up dying at the same time, as they indeed sacrificed their lives to save others, but they are then free for the afterlife when they join the force).

Also, using the dark side of the force doesn't mean you are evil, and using the light side of the force doesn't make you good. It's more about the reason you are using the force, and your inner strongest feeling. Dark-side is more selfish, fearing, sometimes hating(specially the Sith), Light-side is more about selflessness, helping others, proteting and defending others or a principle. Both seeks knowledge and power.

Now for the game, being as we are talking about Jedi and Sith respectivly, dark side Jedi are abundant, but they become outcast so it might be weird to have a darkside Jedi in your group when you do content, on a RP sense. (Although, you could argue that dark-side Jedi always tried to hide it until they could finish their plans). Light-side Sith would probably be killed on the spot once they are found.

[Temeluchus]

You can't switch sides as in you rolled a Consular, but your choices are Dark, so now you are a Sith. Whatever you roll, you will always be that. But you DO make morality decisions that can affect whether you are acquiring LS or DS points. It has an impact on your story, how your companions react to you (not that you are dark, but if you make choices they dislike, you will lose affection), and it will affect the look of your gear (but I think not the stats, just the look). If you ever played KotOR, it's very similar to that.

Being a Dark Side Jedi does not make you a Sith, it makes you a Dark or Fallen Jedi. There are numerous examples of this, you can even argue that Exar Kun and Revan were not truly Sith, just dark or fallen Jedi. Dark Jedi follow the dark side path of the Force, being Sith is heritage or following their ideology, which dark Jedi aren't/do not.

You are correct that DS affects your story, and how companions and NPCs react to you and DS corruption also has a visual corruption to it(announced at NYCC).

[Deleted]

You can't switch sides as in you rolled a Consular, but your choices are Dark, so now you are a Sith. Whatever you roll, you will always be that. But you DO make morality decisions that can affect whether you are acquiring LS or DS points. It has an impact on your story, how your companions react to you (not that you are dark, but if you make choices they dislike, you will lose affection), and it will affect the look of your gear (but I think not the stats, just the look). If you ever played KotOR, it's very similar to that.

Except for the real fact that you can't have a Light side Sith in the Sith Empire and a Dark Side Jedi in the Republic.

[Karteli]

Except for the real fact that you can't have a Light side Sith in the Sith Empire and a Dark Side Jedi in the Republic.

Thank you for sharing your vast Star Wars knowledge with us, care to share your sources for this?

Anakin was a dark side Jedi in Episode 2, sharing forbidden bodily love and killing innocents, including the young (attempted rescue of his mother).

You are confusing switching sides with being good/evil or evil/good. You cannot switch sides (ex: Republic to Empire) in SWTOR. But you can be a scumbag Jedi, or a goody-two-shoes Sith

[Deleted]

Anakin was a dark side Jedi in Episode 2, sharing forbidden bodily love and killing innocents, including the young (attempted rescue of his mother).

That isn't a Dark jedi, a Dark jedi knowingly uses the Dark side of the force, either in defence of others or for personal gain.

Being a jedi and boning someone doesn't make you a Dark jedi, while being a nice and happy Sith would see you either killed for acting stupidly or laughed at for being so weak.

[Karteli]

That isn't a Dark jedi, a Dark jedi knowingly uses the Dark side of the force, either in defence of others or for personal gain.

Being a jedi and boning someone doesn't make you a Dark jedi, while being a nice and happy Sith would see you either killed for acting stupidly or laughed at for being so weak.

It's all about terminology that you are relying on. A dark side Jedi is not equivalent in any way to a Sith, rather a dark side Jedi, to me, would be the equivalent to a rude, malign Red Cross Worker .. whereas a good Sith would be more of a Mafia hitman who has good ethics.

If anything the use of the terms "light side", "dark side", might be confusing to some, as they believe this is where they draw their powers from. The force is the force. The actual side is just an artificial generalization (to me) - it's the intent that counts.

A Jedi can feel hate and anger, and still be a Jedi.

[Temeluchus]

That isn't a Dark jedi, a Dark jedi knowingly uses the Dark side of the force, either in defence of others or for personal gain.

Being a jedi and boning someone doesn't make you a Dark jedi, while being a nice and happy Sith would see you either killed for acting stupidly or laughed at for being so weak.

The more posts I read from you the more I am convinced you are either a troll or just completely uniformed. LS Sith does not mean you are skipping around Korriban planting flowers and holding hands with Taranteks, it could be a Sith who is trying to shape the Empire into a less xenophobic,military-industrial nation into something better or a Sith who conducts himself with honor in battles and believes wanton slaughter or killing a fallen surrendered foe is beneath them. Being a Jedi and trying to or actually" boning someone" doesn't make you a Dark Jedi, it sets you down the dark side path because the Jedi teach that relationships lead to emotional attachments and they evoke the kind of emotions that lead to the dark side.

To use Karteli's mafia hitman example, is a hitman with a no women or kids policy still a vicious sociopath or could it be that he is a hired killer, good at his job but even he has morals and limits?

[Deleted]

It's all about terminology that you are relying on. A dark side Jedi is not equivalent in any way to a Sith, rather a dark side Jedi, to me, would be the equivalent to a rude, malign Red Cross Worker .. whereas a good Sith would be more of a Mafia hitman who has good ethics.

If anything the use of the terms "light side", "dark side", might be confusing to some, as they believe this is where they draw their powers from. The force is the force. The actual side is just an artificial generalization (to me) - it's the intent that counts.

A Jedi can feel hate and anger, and still be a Jedi.

I agree, it's actually a very confusing term, what it really should be more like is "Renegade" and "Paragon". Because in previous KoToR games, having a high Dark side was effected by your force powers used and such, I do not think it is the case here.

---------- Post added 2011-11-04 at 08:17 PM ----------

The more posts I read from you the more I am convinced you are either a troll or just completely uniformed. LS Sith does not mean you are skipping around Korriban planting flowers and holding hands with Taranteks, it could be a Sith who is trying to shape the Empire into a less xenophobic,military-industrial nation into something better or a Sith who conducts himself with honor in battles and believes wanton slaughter or killing a fallen surrendered foe is beneath them. Being a Jedi and trying to or actually" boning someone" doesn't make you a Dark Jedi, it sets you down the dark side path because the Jedi teach that relationships lead to emotional attachments and they evoke the kind of emotions that lead to the dark side.

I used extreme examples yes, but what I basically mean is that "Dark Jedi" are Jedi who use Dark force powers, a "Light Sith" would be one who generally doesn't use Dark force powers.

But whatever, call me a troll, I a utterly convinced if I say anything negative about the game I will be classed as one anyway.

[Karteli]

I agree, it's actually a very confusing term, what it really should be more like is "Renegade" and "Paragon". Because in previous KoToR games, having a high Dark side was effected by your force powers used and such, I do not think it is the case here.

I hope they don't, and it sounds like they won't either. Many other role playing games with morality - with a priest as an example - have you either praying to God for spells if you are good, or to Satan if you are evil. OK, they don't use those deity names, but you get the gist. Switch sides, and you switch deities. This is OK for some games, but do it too many times, you would piss off the "Gods", wouldn't you?

The Force is something that is harnessed, as a gift. What a person does with it is up to them. It was shown in the movies that both sides can use the same powers, but I feel that the Jedi use destructive powers less (as a last resort, or a needed counter-attack/defense), since they can have unpredictable consequences. Shooting lightning or hurling large objects is of no concern to the truly evil - they don't care who they hurt - innocent bystander, no problem. Just like common shithead terrorists.

If anything the Jedi use the force simply in a more controlled way, being very careful.

[Deleted]

I hope they don't, and it sounds like they won't either. Many other role playing games with morality - with a priest as an example - have you either praying to God for spells if you are good, or to Satan if you are evil. OK, they don't use those deity names, but you get the gist. Switch sides, and you switch deities. This is OK for some games, but do it too many times, you would piss off the "Gods", wouldn't you?

The Force is something that is harnessed, as a gift. What a person does with it is up to them. It was shown in the movies that both sides can use the same powers, but I feel that the Jedi use destructive powers less (as a last resort, or a needed counter-attack/defense), since they can have unpredictable consequences. Shooting lightning or hurling large objects is of no concern to the truly evil - they don't care who they hurt - innocent bystander, no problem. Just like common shithead terrorists.

If anything the Jedi use the force simply in a more controlled way, being very careful.

Not to sound like a very negative person, but George Lucas says you are wrong, in the very basic gist, using Dark side powers like choke and lightning make you more evil, and Light side powers like push don't make you evil ( there are none except maybe healing that make you more good.)

I hope they change this, but Lightning before everything was basically a "tear" in the force made by dark side users, I hope they figure something out to show that the "Light and dark" ratings are not the exact same ones from KoToR and you won't be able to be a Jedi using force storm.