Sadness of the Sith.

[Zarasthura]

We know how the Empire will end up 3000 years from now, but let's not forget that this is the KOTOR era, so Bioware will thankfull handle this differently down the road in expansions.

At least it's not Extpanded Universe /shudder

[zealous]

People seem to think that 2000 or 3000 years is alot of time in the star wars universe, when it isn't.

Between ToR and The Empire the technology of the setting stays exactly the same, with few improvments to anything. They even loose previously hilarious easy tech like personal shielding and vibroblades and still use the crappy blasters of the setting.

It's still confuses me how Noone ever thought of making a revolver to kill Jedi, because they can't dodge bullets.

I'm sorry man but you keep coming up with confusing shit to argue on. Not only is this a very weird thing ti complain about, but what does this have to do with this thread?

And what does technology changing or not have to do with how long is 3k years?

You're very wrong - it's a long time by any standards, and even more so by SW ones. The 6th movies barely take a century and they display the galactic balance between the Empire and the Republic shift TWICE, in a 180 manner.

During a time period of less than 10 years (KoTOR 1 and 2) the Republic went from peace, to civil war, to Revan saving the Republic, to the leftover Sith uniting after he left and wiping out 99% of the Jedi to the Jedi defeating them and rebuilding the order.

Less than 10 years.

Your argument about "3k years is not much by SW standards" is ridiculous I'm afraid. And technology issues are neither here nor there.

what happened there? I thought the light side revan ending of kotor 1 was canon?

KoTOR 1 doesn't influence KoTOR 2 directly. Revan left Republic space after KoTOR 1, the leftover Sith united under his former teacher - Kreia and two other powerful Sith Lords and wiped out nearly every last Jedi before they were defeated by the Exile (who then flew off to join Revan).

[DaGhostDS]

We know how the Empire will end up 3000 years from now, but let's not forget that this is the KOTOR era, so Bioware will thankfull handle this differently down the road in expansions.

At least it's not Extpanded Universe /shudder

huh kotor is part of the expanded universe...

[Zarasthura]

huh kotor is part of the expanded universe...

I know that kotor is part of EU but considering what I've read with other EU material, IMHO Bioware is telling the best Star Wars story.

Some things in the EU books make me scratch my head, like zombie plague and time travel. Plus, the LEgacy era seems like it's all over the place. I don't blame George Lucas at all when he says he only considers his movies as 100% canon.

[zealous]

IMHO Bioware is telling the best Star Wars story.

^this, as far as I'm concerned.

And nobody can sway me on this either, may the 4-6th episode fans forgive me.

[Dreavus]

I know that kotor is part of EU but considering what I've read with other EU material, IMHO Bioware is telling the best Star Wars story.

Some things in the EU books make me scratch my head, like zombie plague and time travel. Plus, the LEgacy era seems like it's all over the place. I don't blame George Lucas at all when he says he only considers his movies as 100% canon.

He does not consider his movies to be only 100% cannon, he simply separates his movies from the EU in a way that validates any canonical information in both areas, without screwing up one another. There's the "movies" universe, and then there's the "alternate EU universe" of Star Wars. Each are canon, one just isn't cared about by Lucas.

[MephistoXVIII]

I think it's more the thing that, even in the movies, the power was shown as transfering back and forth. 4, 5 and 6 were to show us what the good guys did to get the power back. 1, 2 and 3 showed primarily how the bad guys took that power- you can't tell me they weren't massively winning. Shown in a realistic light, the Sith aren't preordained to die off but in any power struggle of even somewhat evenly matched sides, there will be highs and lows.

[Twotonsteak]

Does anyone else feel rather strange how the factions work within the old republic?

Isn't the Sith Empire practically set up to loose this entire thing? How to they reflect it in the Game itself?

These questions often bug me, because it would be weird trying to root for your faction when it's predestined to fail.

Things like killing important republic characters, or maybe having Revan, this can't really happen if they are trying to keep to Star Wars lore can it?

The time-period in which ToR is set has not been heavily covered by lore. Bioware was given a few basic facts and told, by Lucasarts, to have fun and run wild. Everything they do is considered lore (I believe).

However yes, the Sith WILL eventually lose. However a quick look at the time-line in the front of "Fatal Alliance" (a book set during the ToR time-period with many of the important characters) shows that up to 5000 years will lapse between the "Old Republic" period and that of episodes 4-6

[Deleted]

The movies are several thousands of years into the future. And you could make the Sith win in both KotOR games. I do not see the problem.

[zealous]

Guys, even after the movies, there are canon events showing the rise of new Sith cults. Nothing as massive as the Empire in TOR, but enough to cause serious problems for the Republic.

Even Han Solo's son becomes a Sith Lord under the name of Darth Caedus.

Not that I really like the lore of the movies too much or the novels connected to them, this simply breaks the "Sith lose, lulz" argument.

[Hughes]

BIG SPOILER/NDA right there buddy.

How so? It's obvious in most games like these a big, important character dies. This happens all the time in games, books, etc.

---------- Post added 2011-11-05 at 06:50 PM ----------

Why does there have to be a winner? I don't get it.

The struggle between the two factions as well as the 3rd party enemies that will arise are more than enough to make a game out of.

They could do a TON of stuff with the 1000 years they have to play with. A totally "Evil" 3rd faction for ex. The Borg that threaten both Empire and Republic and players have to put aside differences and defeat the enemy.

To answer your question: Shifting the balance...like
Jedi: The Republic shall know peace...*szzt* ACK /flee
Sith:We rule! *szzt* /flee
Jedi: There can be only one...
Sith: I'm back *szzt*

Pointless example...but you get the gist of it

[DaGhostDS]

^this, as far as I'm concerned.

And nobody can sway me on this either, may the 4-6th episode fans forgive me.

Read Karen Traviss books about Mandalorian and commandos.
<3 Nothing can beat that.

[zealous]

Read Karen Traviss books about Mandalorian and commandos.
<3 Nothing can beat that.

I was actually looking for the Darth Bane trilogy today and saw books by that author, but didn't buy them since I've heard nothing about them at all before.

[Zarasthura]

Read Karen Traviss books about Mandalorian and commandos.
<3 Nothing can beat that.

I haven't read her work on mandalorians, but I've heard only bad things about it. Something along the line of her turning Mandalorians into peace loving goodie goods you see in the Clone Wars

[crawdaddy029]

how is the empire predetermined to fail? I am almost certain they are winning for... ever until the end of the movie franchise anyway.

[zealous]

I haven't read her work on mandalorians, but I've heard only bad things about it. Something along the line of her turning Mandalorians into peace loving goodie goods you see in the Clone Wars

I am personally very sexist when it comes to books =)

It's not a general rule, but I approach fantasy and sci fi books written by women with caution. I find some tend to be a tad too bright, optimistic and touchy.

Not all ofc, but enough for my paranoid mind to consider it at least a slight trend.

But that's neither here nor there I guess.

[Svifnymr]

what happened there? I thought the light side revan ending of kotor 1 was canon?

Kotor2 had a lot of failings, though many still love it.

The main protagonist is a jedi outcast who returns when all other jedi have been exterminated by sith lords.

Your first mission is to find other jedi masters...

So yeah, if those two sentences make sense, then you might like kotor2, if you see a plot hole, then probably won't make it far.

[zealous]

Kotor2 had a lot of failings, though many still love it.

The main protagonist is a jedi outcast who returns when all other jedi have been exterminated by sith lords.

Your first mission is to find other jedi masters...

So yeah, if those two sentences make sense, then you might like kotor2, if you see a plot hole, then probably won't make it far.

I see no plot holes there...

1. It was never said that the Triumvirate killed ALL the Masters. Just those that went to Katarr, i.e. most of them.

2. The Exile doesn't know anything about the events that took place because he was....welll.... in exile.

What's wrong with the plot?

[Kakokun]

I see no plot holes there...

1. It was never said that the Triumvirate killed ALL the Masters. Just those that went to Katarr, i.e. most of them.

2. The Exile doesn't know anything about the events that took place because he was....welll.... in exile.

What's wrong with the plot?

The exile is female in canon by the way.

[zealous]

The exile is female in canon by the way.

Yeah, sorry, keep forgetting that since I played as male.