Automated LFD tool

[Speedy92286]

Ya i agree, when ever i've had a bad player it was always the tank or healer, and it was usually because they were complete ass holes then anything. When you don't have roles (especially 2 that feed the egos of most people), i feel that most people won't be as entitled or full of themselves.

If they had a LFG system that put 5 different classes (or even 5 different races together) i have a feeling it'd be used, but there'd still be plenty of people that would put groups together themselves if they don't really care what their group comp is. I feel like it'd just end up being a better option if they do put one into GW2 because people will remain social (most likely) and it's still there for people who want to use it.

That's the great thing, it will be a choice since you don't need a certain class to do anything. That was the problem with WoW and many other MMO's--you needed a certain class to tank or heal, which could take anywhere from a few minutes to never happening. That is why people rely on the LFD in WoW. If it is implemented in GW2 I doubt it will be as needed as it is in WoW currently, but will still be a nice option to have.

[Ynna]

i think the LFD tool worked well in its original state in WoW, when it just listed your name, and what you're looking for, but you still had to whisper other people and travel to the dungeon, it beats spamming in a lfg channel or something, would be nice to see that. but I don't really want to see an automated one like wow.

It was horrible. You could only select three dungeons, and if you just wanted to gear and do whatever dungeon you had to make changes in the tool constantly. And people would just list themselves in the tool, hoping to get a whisper, without taking any initiative whatsoever. And the people that did take matters in their own hands would still whisper random people to fill out a group.
And teleporting to a dungeon is a non-issue with the waypoint-system in GW2, that lets you zip around the map without any problems anyway.
So why don't you want a automatic system, actually?

Yeah, I have to agree with your last paragraph. I am thinking that WoW's community started going downhill around Wrath and the fact the LFD came shorty afterwards just made people associate WoW's community going downhill to that. I've very rarely had the bad players people keep on complaining about. Most people are really nice, although some are quiet. Then again, it was like this when I had to make my own group anyway. To me, the LFD is just a nice tool to have when you don't have enough people on to fill a group, or if you are really bored.

I was actually going to make a similar observation. There's no logical reason that an automatic group finder would make the community worse and keep people out of the world. If anything, it should have put less people in cities, since you no longer have to spam trade in order to find a group. It's more likely that the coming of LFD coincided with not enough to do in the world. With a low-maintenance grouping system you should have no reason to stand in one spot, unless standing in one spot in more interesting and rewarding than whatever your other options are.

[lindmando]

I would say yes because it would be chill to play with different people.

Because you'll get used to the some a-holes in your server.

[Speedy92286]

It was horrible. You could only select three dungeons, and if you just wanted to gear and do whatever dungeon you had to make changes in the tool constantly. And people would just list themselves in the tool, hoping to get a whisper, without taking any initiative whatsoever. And the people that did take matters in their own hands would still whisper random people to fill out a group.
And teleporting to a dungeon is a non-issue with the waypoint-system in GW2, that lets you zip around the map without any problems anyway.
So why don't you want a automatic system, actually?



I was actually going to make a similar observation. There's no logical reason that an automatic group finder would make the community worse and keep people out of the world. If anything, it should have put less people in cities, since you no longer have to spam trade in order to find a group. It's more likely that the coming of LFD coincided with not enough to do in the world. With a low-maintenance grouping system you should have no reason to stand in one spot, unless standing in one spot in more interesting and rewarding than whatever your other options are.

I am glad someone agrees with me. I thought I was just rambling a little.

@Peggleftw:

Honestly, I don't see how that is ANY different from the LFD. You list yourself in the system and hope you get an invite. After awhile most people just started spamming trade because it was not working unless you were a tank or a healer. Yes, LFD is cross realm and it adds an anonymous nature to grouping, but is the trade off not worth it? With the dungeon finder you HOPED you got invited. With the LFD all you have to do is wait your turn in line. Even if ALL the pugs were nightmares(which they aren't) the time you save is more than worth it.

People will be lying to themselves if they admitted to wanting to wait for 4 hours to do a dungeon instead of waiting 10 minutes via a LFD tool. Yes, this is an exaggeration, but sometimes I would wait all day to do a 5-man and just end up questing instead.

[Ishu]

Honestly, I don't see how that is ANY different from the LFD. You list yourself in the system and hope you get an invite. After awhile most people just started spamming trade because it was not working unless you were a tank or a healer.

The reason a manual system didn't work in WoW was because the one in WoW was horrible. Not only was it hidden in a sub-menu so many people didn't even know it existed, you could, as said, only select three dungeons at the same time. A manual system is better than an automatic system since it gives you control over who you get to play with, unlike the automatic one where it's just random. And having an automatic system removes many of the available options you'd otherwise have in the manual system, so having both is not an option either.

[Ynna]

The reason a manual system didn't work in WoW was because the one in WoW was horrible. Not only was it hidden in a sub-menu so many people didn't even know it existed, you could, as said, only select three dungeons at the same time. A manual system is better than an automatic system since it gives you control over who you get to play with, unlike the automatic one where it's just random. And having an automatic system removes many of the available options you'd otherwise have in the manual system, so having both is not an option either.

But there's already a manual system in place; It's called asking people if they want to group.

[Deleted]

I prefer having 6 only servers , instead of 30+ and depend on cross-server LFD

[airea]

I prefer having 6 only servers , instead of 30+ and depend on cross-server LFD

Agreed. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but won't the population of GW2 servers have the capability of being larger than most MMOs such as WoW?

[Questar]

i dont understand how people think they can LFG faster than a LFG tool. a LFG tool is the maximum efficiency.
how can u beat a system where everyone who wants to LFG is already pooled and queued into the system with your primitive system of yelling in trade chat?

[Fencers]

i dont understand how people think they can LFG faster than a LFG tool. a LFG tool is the maximum efficiency.
how can u beat a system where everyone who wants to LFG is already pooled and queued into the system with your primitive system of yelling in trade chat?

Not so much that they want an effective queue. Many of the anti-LFG supporters prefer a more social approach to group formation is all. Where getting to know people on your server is > to efficient dungeon runs per hour.

[Questar]

Not so much that they want an effective queue. Many of the anti-LFG supporters prefer a more social approach to group formation is all. Where getting to know people on your server is > to efficient dungeon runs per hour.

this is a matter of human nature then.
based on the results of the poll, people would rather take away an efficient system for finding groups than address human behavior. what about all those ppl who have a limited time to play a game? they only have say 2 hrs to play then go to bed and go to work/sch. why take away the option to "plug and play" from them when the option not to use the system is available for all critiques of the system?

[Snow White]

this is a matter of human nature then.
based on the results of the poll, people would rather take away an efficient system for finding groups than address human behavior. what about all those ppl who have a limited time to play a game? they only have say 2 hrs to play then go to bed and go to work/sch. why take away the option to "plug and play" from them when the option not to use the system is available for all critiques of the system?

Mmos aren't for people who can only play for an hour or two a day. If you want automated systems and 'plug and play' convenience hen go play wow. As for the 'option not to use it' well we all know that's impossible once it's implemented. It becomes the norm and the majority of the player-base can't be bothered to stay grouped with you while you look for more manually. Have you ever tried to take the long way with anything in wow with a group waiting? I have. What do you think happens? They leave or vote to kick you. It happened almost every time I tried to read a dungeon quest or watch a cinematic. I don't want guild wars 2 players ending up like the wow community with this need for instant gratification.

[Questar]

Mmos aren't for people who can only play for an hour or two a day.

what kinds of people are mmos for? i find it strange that mmos cater to a specific group of people.

Have you ever tried to take the long way with anything in wow with a group waiting? I have. What do you think happens? They leave or vote to kick you. It happened almost every time I tried to read a dungeon quest or watch a cinematic.

it is also strange to take away a LFG feature becos "i may be grouped with strangers that disagree with what i wanted to do".

[Speedy92286]

Mmos aren't for people who can only play for an hour or two a day. If you want automated systems and 'plug and play' convenience hen go play wow. As for the 'option not to use it' well we all know that's impossible once it's implemented. It becomes the norm and the majority of the player-base can't be bothered to stay grouped with you while you look for more manually. Have you ever tried to take the long way with anything in wow with a group waiting? I have. What do you think happens? They leave or vote to kick you. It happened almost every time I tried to read a dungeon quest or watch a cinematic. I don't want guild wars 2 players ending up like the wow community with this need for instant gratification.

Yes MMO's can be played an hour or two a day. You may not get much done, but why can't someone log on at 10pm and be off by midnight? Are you saying YOU can't play an MMO for an hour or two a day? Or are you just making assumptions? Believe me, two hours is plenty of time to even play WoW. Will I be raiding? Probably not, but I can do a dungeon or two, check my mail, chat with some friends and do some dailies if I feel up to it.

The rest of your post I mostly agree with, though I don't like the way you phrase it. Are people "lazier" right now in WoW? Yes. Why? Because it took a long time to find a group, even as a tank or healer. Then at least two people had to go to the dungeon to summon. Depending on far that is from where you currently were, it can easily double the time it took wait to actually get to the dungeon. And then you had to do the dungeon and hoped people would stay so you can complete it.

Yeah, about a whole afternoon to do a 5-man? I've done that in Vanilla, BC and in Wrath before the LFD came out. The LFD was one of the best ideas Blizz had. I said this before and I will say this again; the COMMUNITY is what made the dungeon finder, and now the raid finder, a "failure" in the eyes of some. The people playing the game decide to be trolls and asshats because they CAN. Even before the LFD people were always impatient. If you take too long, wipe on a boss once, or if there is more than one warrior in the raid, PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. It is not the LFD's fault, it is the player base's fault.

Honestly, as a healer I tell them brb while I read a dungeon quest. If they decide to pull while I am watching a cinematic I will just rez them when I am done. I don't get bothered much by people complaining that I am taking too long. If I want to watch the Well of Eternity cinematic for the 6th time I will. I like that scene. Will I read a new dungeon quest? Yes. I want to see what I am doing, the lore behind it and what I am getting. If people can't wait for that, then I rather have them leave then after a wipe they might have caused.

[Fencers]

Mmos aren't for people who can only play for an hour or two a day.

...what in the...

If you want automated systems and 'plug and play' convenience hen go play wow. As for the 'option not to use it' well we all know that's impossible once it's implemented. It becomes the norm and the majority of the player-base can't be bothered to stay grouped with you while you look for more manually.

That is indicative of the majority wanting convenience over chat box spam.

Seems kinda arrogant to to ask the majority to forgo certain features that popularly are wanted.

Have you ever tried to take the long way with anything in wow with a group waiting? I have. What do you think happens? They leave or vote to kick you. It happened almost every time I tried to read a dungeon quest or watch a cinematic. I don't want guild wars 2 players ending up like the wow community with this need for instant gratification.

This is very common in Guild Wars 1 actually. Natural attrition. People are there in the group finder to complete a task after 8 months of Iron Tombs/Nexus/Heart of the Ocean.

[Durzlla]

Yes MMO's can be played an hour or two a day. You may not get much done, but why can't someone log on at 10pm and be off by midnight? Are you saying YOU can't play an MMO for an hour or two a day? Or are you just making assumptions? Believe me, two hours is plenty of time to even play WoW. Will I be raiding? Probably not, but I can do a dungeon or two, check my mail, chat with some friends and do some dailies if I feel up to it.

The rest of your post I mostly agree with, though I don't like the way you phrase it. Are people "lazier" right now in WoW? Yes. Why? Because it took a long time to find a group, even as a tank or healer. Then at least two people had to go to the dungeon to summon. Depending on far that is from where you currently were, it can easily double the time it took wait to actually get to the dungeon. And then you had to do the dungeon and hoped people would stay so you can complete it.

Yeah, about a whole afternoon to do a 5-man? I've done that in Vanilla, BC and in Wrath before the LFD came out. The LFD was one of the best ideas Blizz had. I said this before and I will say this again; the COMMUNITY is what made the dungeon finder, and now the raid finder, a "failure" in the eyes of some. The people playing the game decide to be trolls and asshats because they CAN. Even before the LFD people were always impatient. If you take too long, wipe on a boss once, or if there is more than one warrior in the raid, PEOPLE WILL LEAVE. It is not the LFD's fault, it is the player base's fault.

Honestly, as a healer I tell them brb while I read a dungeon quest. If they decide to pull while I am watching a cinematic I will just rez them when I am done. I don't get bothered much by people complaining that I am taking too long. If I want to watch the Well of Eternity cinematic for the 6th time I will. I like that scene. Will I read a new dungeon quest? Yes. I want to see what I am doing, the lore behind it and what I am getting. If people can't wait for that, then I rather have them leave then after a wipe they might have caused.

lol i always did the same thing when i was healing, except that I always watched the squid cinematic instead of the well of eternity one (quit before Firelands).

And i entirerly agree with your look on the LFD/LFR system, it's not the systems fault, it's the player bases. I personally have met some really nice peole in the LFD. That being said though, i don't really want it in GW2 for fear of what it might do to the community. It never took me long to build groups without the LFD in a game with the trinity, so i don't see how it'd be that hard to build a group in a game where you just need 5 people.

---------- Post added 2011-12-19 at 12:29 PM ----------

i dont understand how people think they can LFG faster than a LFG tool. a LFG tool is the maximum efficiency.
how can u beat a system where everyone who wants to LFG is already pooled and queued into the system with your primitive system of yelling in trade chat?

Can i form a group faster then 30min? Yes... yes i can...

[Ishu]

That is indicative of the majority wanting convenience over chat box spam.

Seems kinda arrogant to to ask the majority to forgo certain features that popularly are wanted.

I don't think anyone wants to go back to chat box spam. I don't remember seeing anyone suggesting that. But there are other ways to help group creating than something which does everything automatically. Maybe it's just me, but I find playing with random people to be dreadfully boring, not just in MMOs but in every online game. I'd honestly rather not do a dungeon at all, than do it in a group that has been randomly put together. I don't understand how anyone can enjoy that at all.

That said, if you limit the available pool of players for the automatic grouping, so you will only get grouped with people from your server (the people you'll see every day when you idle in cities or do world events), I'd be fine with it too, since it won't be a completely random group then. But I'd really prefer a manual system where you sign up for the dungeons you want to do, and then appear on a list so you can invite other people from that list yourself. It really doesn't take more than 5 minutes to put together a group that way if the tool is designed properly.

[airea]

Can i form a group faster then 30min? Yes... yes i can...

Agreed. I wouldn't exactly call waiting 30 minutes, even in WoW, efficient. If I can build a fairly good raid group in 20, I can build a fair dungeon group in less. Besides, that's with a tank and dedicated healer. GW2 won't even have those. The possibility of taking more than 10 minutes to build a dungeon group in GW2 is preposterous.

[Fencers]

I never waited in a queue for 30mins...

[Durzlla]

Were you dps? Cause all my friends were dps and they all bitched and moaned about how awful the ques were, how they took 30 minutes, i was forced into healing however for the sake of raids and all that BS. Regardless, I was known well enough on my server for being good at what i did all i'd have to do is shout in trade and have a full group in ~5-10min.