Should smoking be more/less regulated?

[Dacien]

Tyrod. Stop flaming. I will infract you again.

[Jasyn]

I asked for scientific proof, are you hard of reading?

American Cancer Society not scientific enough? They're not exactly going to do a lab test of second hand smoke to see how many people it kills.

[Beazy]

American Cancer Society not scientific enough? They're not exactly going to do a lab test of second hand smoke to see how many people it kills.

They are using the EPA report that has been thrown out by a federal court because of its inaccuracies. Many years ago.
This is old news.


Fact. You cannot get 2nd hand smoke cancer from walking through a cloud of smoke.

[Seegtease]

now i have 2 packs a week and It takes 20% of my paycheck away... I am in poverty coz sombody thaught it was a good idea to "tax them till it hurts"

No, you are in poverty because you spend 20% of your paycheck on poisoning your lungs. You should try to do what most of us do when we can't afford something - stop doing it. It requires some self-control to do so, though. For example, if I couldn't afford to buy popcorn at movies, even if I like to, I'd not do it. It's part of money management.

Honestly, the way it should be is that our luxuries should be taxed so that taxes on necessities can be reduced. Unhealthy luxuries should be taxed even more to the same end. This way, people who really ARE in poverty can get what they need easier and people who have money to throw away on cigarettes can pay the tax, by CHOICE.

[Jasyn]

Fact. You cannot get 2nd hand smoke cancer from walking through a cloud of smoke.

Where's your scientific proof?

[Seegtease]

and srsly METH IS BAD MMMMKAY?

I'm pretty sure no one is disagreeing with that, which is why most of its uses are illegal (in the states, anyhow).

[Beazy]

Where's your scientific proof?

Here, Ill make it ez and fun for you. I suggest watching the entire program, there are top scientist talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGApkbcaZK4

[Seegtease]

Where's your scientific proof?

Eh, the burden of proof technically falls on you. If person A says X can cause Y, person B is not obligated to prove that X cannot cause Y. Person A has to first provide the proof that it does.

Not saying that it doesn't - just saying there's a fallacy with that argument.

[NotValidAnymore]

Not to be offensive, but if people want to get cancer, let them go ahead. But don't make it bothersome for other people, that's just not okay.

[vindicatorx]

1 in 5 people in the US die from tobacco related illnesses. I'd say that's pretty significant.



That video is spewing the same crap everyone else in the thread is. Anecdotal evidence of people not affected by second hand smoke, and whining about taking the liberties away from smokers - but not acknowledging the fact that liberties of nonsmokers are affected as well.

Try watching it having multiple prestigious people who work in the medical field declaring their is no significant evidence that second hand smoke is harmful and that the only "evidence" supporting it does was thrown out because they cherry picked their statistics.

[Jasyn]

Eh, the burden of proof technically falls on you. If person A says X can cause Y, person B is not obligated to prove that X cannot cause Y. Person A has to first provide the proof that it does.

Not saying that it doesn't - just saying there's a fallacy with that argument.

Using his exact argument against him.

Though, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm actually watching the whole video before forming an opinion.

[Seegtease]

Educate yourself. There is NO scientific proof that 2nd hand smoke causes cancer in bystanders. Read a book please, and turn off the TV.

Here's the reason I find claims that secondhand smoke does cause cancer to be more likely to be credible than one claiming they don't: there's no motive.

There's no motive for me to make up a fake story about how secondhand smoke kills, and pay a bunch of money for a TV timeslot. I don't personally benefit from this.

What there IS motive for is tobacco companies picking at minuscule details to stretch a claim out to not sound very bad, and deny accountability. The motive? They want to sell more cigarettes. To make money. Tobacco companies have a lot of money. A lot of money to spread their own propaganda denying real health risks, getting their "top scientists" to say it's safe, and hoping people like you might believe it.

[Mass0wnage]

In California they are trying to pass a new tax that will add a $5 cigarette tax, which will make it $10+ per pack, hows that for stopping people from smoking.

Every state that has raised their cigarette taxes, thought the same thing. Some people quit, Most don't. It's all a scam by the state to raise more revenue. And it works.



I Don't care what's "unhealthy" for me. And I really don't care what's unhealthy for you.

I smoke, don't like it, don't come near me.

You don't smoke, I'm sitting on a bench waiting for the bus. You then sit down right next to me. You start to fan your arms/hands and fake coughing. I'm going to blow smoke in your face. You're own stupidity.

We're sitting in the casino. You're in the Smoking area. You bitch because of the smoke. Guess what? I Don't care. Go to the nonsmoking area if it bothers you that much.

The only time I care, is when I am in your Nonsmoking vehicle/home. I'll respect your personal property. Chances are, I wouldn't take the ride or make the visit anyways.

It's the same way I feel about this Health Insurance bullshit. "All US citizens will be required to have insurance blah blah blah" or else you're gonna get fined. Obamacare or whatever it is. Guess what? I Can't afford Health Insurance, you gonna fine me? Hrm Makes sense. I can't afford your Overpriced insurance, so you fine me. What makes you think I can afford that too?

It's my body, I'll do as I please with it. That is my right.

We cigarette smokers aren't driving around killing people. But Drunk drivers are. Go figure.

[vindicatorx]

oh man where to begin. Ok I guess let's start here:

http://www.smoking-facts.net/

<mod snip>

If you honestly believe that smoking doesn't kill you then you are beyond hope<mod snip>

And I think I will get back to work and do something meaningful with my life "while you play videogames... EVERY DAY OF YOUR LIFE WHILE YOU SMOKE... coz you dont work"

"I love smoking" is not a fact, it's a wrong opinion. Yeah, a WRONG opinion, imagine that. It's an actual thing.

"Really you have all been brainwashed into thinking "smoking kills".... well lots of things do from microwaves to breast implats to mobiles to car exhausts...
if your worried about smoking giving you cancer well there are better things to be worried about" again, opinion, and wrong, again. Still no facts. Let's continue.

"and if im smoking and you dont like it then... tough you have plenty of places smoke free these days" not a fact, just a completely selfish and <mod snip> statement. And a wrong one at that, not surprising though.

"All you anti smokers can go suck a lemon... and let me tax one of your favourate things till you hurt" not a fact, just another mindless statement further showing the world you're <mod snip>

"if ya wanna ban somthing ban psudoephidrine and Meth .... far far far greater effects to your mental health..
in 6 months you can turn into a totally deluded insane person with no grip on reality... scary huh" completely irrelevant statement with no proof that it's a fact.

<mod snip>

lol your link cited the group who had their statistics thrown out for being cherry picked so that source you linked is null and void thanks for playing. You are way to antagonistic to the people who don't share your view and refuse to look at the information against your view. I would suggest you chill out and go smoke a cigarette but I don't want to fan the flames of rage you are currently expressing.

[Seegtease]

yes i see your point

however there is also study into why schizophrenia patients find it soothing to smoke... myself being with schizophrenia it eases the mind the negotine HELPS
so i medicate myself with ciggaretts alcohol and marijuana... as it eases the mind..
now my medication for schitsophrenia also costs 120$ a box.. as well as the ciggarettes and others im medicating my condition with ALOT of money.. and hey I am not "poverty stricken" just "hard done by"

Medications are another thing that should be made cheaper, since in many cases can be regarded as a necessity. Incidentally, if I had to legalize something in order to outlaw cigarettes, I'd see pot legalized and cigs outlawed. Cigs are way more damaging.

[nyc81991]

I don't smoke tobacco and I think it isnt very smart to do so. But that is my opinion, Just because I hold this opinion I don't expect other people to stop. People can choose to do whatever they want to themselfs as long as they don't hurt others.

[vindicatorx]

Here's the reason I find claims that secondhand smoke does cause cancer to be more likely to be credible than one claiming they don't: there's no motive.

One's personal crusade is motive enough and self-righteous busybodies love to get involved in things that don't have anything to do with them. Watch that youtube clip of the guy who is promoting anti-smoking he clearly states he wanted to make a difference and this is how he thinks he will do it.

[Jasyn]

Here, Ill make it ez and fun for you. I suggest watching the entire program, there are top scientist talking about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGApkbcaZK4

So - to use your words:

I asked for scientific proof, are you hard of reading?


The fact that the EPA lied/exaggerated/falisified their tests does not automatically mean it is ACTUALLY false.

Say you've never heard of tigers. If I lie and tell you I've seen a tiger, the fact that I lied does not mean that they don't exist at all.


There is no scientific proof that secondhand smoke does or doesn't cause cancer. Any claim otherwise, is, in fact, bullshit.

[Seegtease]

You don't smoke, I'm sitting on a bench waiting for the bus. You then sit down right next to me. You start to fan your arms/hands and fake coughing. I'm going to blow smoke in your face. You're own stupidity.

Smokers now have first right to benches? Good attitude. It's no wonder they outlaw cigarettes in many places now. They can't count on smokers to be considerate, so the government has to step in.

A little courtesy goes a long ways.

[Kouki]

Nicotine alcohol and caffine are all higher in addictive scale then acid, so if acid is illegal so they all should be.