"Fat Tax", Are You For or Against?

[Slummish]

When I make a lasagna from scratch, it costs me between $40 and $60 depending on what ingredients I already have on hand. The last time I made one, I had nothing on hand and I bought nothing else at the store aside from lasagna ingredients and it cost me $61.69. This makes about 8 servings, maybe 10.

I could have purchased the same sized lasagna full of fats and preservatives and all other manner of garbage in frozen form (that takes 6 hours less to prepare) from Stouffer's for about $9.99 at Walmart.

This illustrates the problem with healthier food choices and the cost of obesity in America.

[Vayshan]

Fat ppl chose to be fat, so if they get/got health issues due to that they should not expect any special treatment from the government or any other institution. Should they want to lose the excess weight and need outside help, then by all means it should be provided, but on their own expense. Ppl who just don't care about being overweight and are litterally eating themselves to death... well just let them eat 'till they collapse in on themselves. They're already stimulating the economy with their eating habbits, taxing the food is nuts. The non-overweight ppl like to eat the fastfood stuff too from time to time, why should we all have to suffer because some ppl cannot control their themselves?

Ppl who have a disability or condition that messes with their metabolism are the exception ofcourse, since they didn't chose to be overweight and can't help it in most cases.

[Providence]

I would definitely disagree with this.
The average human being needs a minimum of 200 grams of meat each day (which can be replaced by less nutritious means, of course) and poultry really isn't all that good for you. Starches... Don't need them. So I'd suggest mainly raw fruits, raw red meat (hoofed herbivore)/seafood and cooked (but not overcooked) vegetables. Maybe the occasional starch.

you don't need meat each day. you need protein, and you can get that from many other sources. and why would you suggest cooked vegetables? vegetables can be eaten raw, and cooking them only takes away valuable nutrients from them, so there's no legit reason to cooking them.

[Deleted]

Totally for. In the UK the NHS and tax payer has to pay hundreds of millions for these fatties and their crap choice of lifestyle, and its a drain on resources, and time for people who truly need those facilities.

100% agree mate. The tax money I knock my pan in for going towards somecunt's gastric band - just because they can't stay away from the fucking chippy!

[twinkleblur]

the carbs and sugar in the soda will eventually be worse for you than the fat from the pistachios
if it's 0/diet coke or pepsi ect, the aspartme will be leagues worse for you than the pistachios

exactly its not about portion size though that does come in its abou t how much sugar it has. carbs too. but what is making you fat is mainly the sugar. this is coming from a guy who recently lost over 150lbs. diets wont work ive tried alll of them exercise? it helps but your hurting yourself if your too over wieght to do it. its really simple actually and i ran into this by accedent. drink alot of water you wont eat nearly as much. it cleases you on the inside also makes you pee alot more but it helps. i didnt even lose that weight slow either 4 months i lost 75lbs.

[Stir]

you don't need meat each day. you need protein, and you can get that from many other sources. and why would you suggest cooked vegetables? vegetables can be eaten raw, and cooking them only takes away valuable nutrients from them, so there's no legit reason to cooking them.

Well, I guess it's different for each of us.
Me, personally, I cannot digest most leaf vegetables, and the green vegs I can eat need to be cooked lest I get sick and in terrible bowel-pains. Historically, though, the invention of fire broadened the human diet by making it possible for us to eat vegetables of all sorts, rather than just meat, fruit and the occasional beetroot. A breakthrough, I'm sure you'll agree.

Raw vegetables are good for most people (in moderation), but you should cook most of your vegetable intake if you are planning on eating a healthy amount of them. Cooking softens the cellulose and chlorophyll, which are the hardest food-stuffs for humans to digest. By softening those, you can get much more nutrients from your vegetables than you could if you ate them raw.

By contrast, cooking your meat (until it's fully done) causes not only the amount of vitamins to plummet, but also morphs the proteins, making them much, much harder to digest (I'm sure you've heard of the average US man who walks around with several pounds of undigested meat in their bowels).

Another point is: If you eat more meat, you don't need as much carbs (which are bad) to get your daily dose of energy.

Add to that that you actually need animal protein and fats to be able to assimilate most vitamins, or even create vitamins you cannot normally assimilate from vegetable products, and you'll find that meat is actually quite a good source of protein; far better than any of the less nutritious 'vegan' products. As an example, I give you the well-known and overly used food supplements. While the raw content of vitamins and minerals in these supplements is incredibly high, the actual uptake of the body from this source is incredibly low. The reason is: They're not the right 'shape' for our body to assimilate them. The same goes for iron from leaf vegetables.
Now; modern civilization has allowed people to live on a vegan diet, and be relatively healthy, even for those individuals (the majority) for which veganism isn't a naturally healthy diet (though 'natural' vegans do exist among humans, as do natural carnivores). But even so, the artificial supplements required are sub-optimal at best.
Also: Soy products are unhealthy.

I myself am a huge proponent of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveman_diet
Well; apart from the things I shouldn't eat, of course (shame on me; I really love lettuce and such).

However: A diet such as that is incredibly expensive. Currently, I make a meal in this fashion about once a weak. Raw berries (blueberries, raspberries and such, high in anti-oxidants), raw vegs (for my partner), seaweed for me, raw and smoked fish and beef, and no grass-seed or potato products. Since I started this once a week, I feel much fitter and more energetic, my sight and hearing has improved, and my chronic depression has lessened. A bit, anyway; it's only once a week after all. And thursdays, which is caveman day, I only eat one meal for the entire day, and I don't get munchies.

[Karrotlord]

you don't need meat each day. you need protein, and you can get that from many other sources. and why would you suggest cooked vegetables? vegetables can be eaten raw, and cooking them only takes away valuable nutrients from them, so there's no legit reason to cooking them.

Actually, only boiling them is bad since many nutrients are water soluble. Steaming, roasting, and grilling are all fine. Cooking also make them quite a bit easier to digest.

[Deleted]

This is both enormously selfish and absolutely ridiculous.
If someone needs medical care, then there's a really good chance they can't get a job because they have a severe condition. As such, they won't be able to afford healthcare, in your perfect world, so they should just die? Remember that a statement such as this doesn't cover only those that do it to themselves. It also covers chronic illnesses.

I don't see how wanting to keep your hard earned money for yourself is selfish. I view that as human nature.

Getting fat is not anybody elses fault, so the cost of fixing it shouldn't fall on anybody else. The blame lies entirely on the fat person. It's not hard to eat healthy, it's not necessarily more expensive. You just need to know what to look for. Beans are healthy food. And they're dirt cheap. Lettuce is healthy. And dirt cheap. So are onions. Cucumbers. Tomatoes. Tons of stuff.

And even if you, for whatever reason, can't eat healthy foods, exercise will keep you both happier and healthier. Get a pair of shoes and go running for gods' sake, it doesn't cost you A_N_Y_T_H_I_N_G. (because you do have shoes, right?)

[Purlina]

It's not hard to eat healthy, it's not necessarily more expensive. You just need to know what to look for. Beans are healthy food. And they're dirt cheap. Lettuce is healthy. And dirt cheap. So are onions. Cucumbers. Tomatoes. Tons of stuff.

Cheaper then the dollar menu?

Eating bad food is usually cheaper

[Deleted]

Cheaper then the dollar menu?

Eating bad food is usually cheaper

Eating cheap unhealthy food is usually tastier than cheap healthy food.

Per calorie junk food is cheaper. But most people eat too many calories anyway, so they don't really matter.

[Symphonic]

Look, I'm skinny. I like to eat fatty things. I can handle it. I don't want to pay extra for it because some people don't know what's good for them or not.

[swineflu]

only fat repugs should be taxed.

---------- Post added 2012-02-08 at 10:24 AM ----------

Look, I'm skinny. I like to eat fatty things. I can handle it. I don't want to pay extra for it because some people don't know what's good for them or not.

eating fat does not make you fat. refined carbohydrates are what makes you fat. lol classic.

[Remilia]

I read your link. I still say lack of education is huge. I know suburbanites with easy access to great supermarkets who couldn't cook their way out of a paper bag (hint: it's flammable).

Which is why I'm saying education is important (I don't think I'm disagreeing with you at all, actually). If, as I posted above, I can take 1 chicken and get 6+ meals out of it... well, go price out whole chickens at your local store. They're pretty damn cheap.

Caveat: I cook food for a living.

So... I have friends over for a party/whatever. People like to say things like, "Can I help do anything?" as I'm finishing off the appetizers or whatever. Ok, sure, I have a pot of boiling water on already, just blanch those green beans. "Do what?". Umm... julienne that zucchini? "Who?" Yeah, nevermind, pour yourself a drink and I'll be out with the food in a couple minutes.

People don't know they can cook for themselves, affordably, even if they have limited time. It's a shame, really. Wouldn't mind seeing the tax on fat (and lets add a tax on processed sugars) go to education.

So you should know for a restaurant the cost of a dish increases, because of this the food cost of that particular dish increases, maybe only just a little, from 26% to 27% (from the view of a 4~ star). Due to this the cost to the customer may increase a little, although undesirable. This may cause cheaper ones to increase in price like poultry / pasta as they are the most food cost efficient.

If the restaurant wants to obtain their desired food cost 'quota' for that month, the prices will change due to the increase of cost. Lets just go with a sauce, beurr blanc, contains a high amount of fat (butter). That essentially will increase a lot in price just due to taxes. Now the food cost determines quite a lot for a restaurant. The food quality, the pay per hour, the salary, etc. It covers for maintenance, for replacement equipment, utensils, utilities (water, electricity, gas, etc). A portion is also given to investors (if any). Now unless you live in places where the expense is generally higher (I'm looking at you Las Vegas, being one of the biggest offender) then the restaurant needs to compensate for the increase in price.

Getting a profit margin at even 5%+ is usually harder in this economy, in fact rather hard. It may average around 2-3%. Though some restaurants may be able to get around 9-10%, it is within the minority.

[davep]

I'm overweight and I am For it. I personally don't eat fatty foods anymore but if this were implemented and kept started getting parents to watch what their kids ate then it would be awesome. Obesity in the US is ridiculous and I feel this would fix the problem, at least make people more aware of what they are eating.

[Karrmer]

I would definitely disagree with this.
The average human being needs a minimum of 200 grams of meat each day (which can be replaced by less nutritious means, of course) and poultry really isn't all that good for you. Starches... Don't need them. So I'd suggest mainly raw fruits, raw red meat (hoofed herbivore)/seafood and cooked (but not overcooked) vegetables. Maybe the occasional starch.


This is both enormously selfish and absolutely ridiculous.
If someone needs medical care, then there's a really good chance they can't get a job because they have a severe condition. As such, they won't be able to afford healthcare, in your perfect world, so they should just die? Remember that a statement such as this doesn't cover only those that do it to themselves. It also covers chronic illnesses.


*nods* This, then, I completely agree with. We don't need to eat these. Protein is actually the only source of energy we actually need.

Your average person needing medical care was absolutely not born with some defect that prevents them from finding any sort of work. That is completely ridiculous.

Also, there is where voluntary donation and charity comes in. There is no moral way you can argue that a person should be forced to take the income they earn with their own work and give it away to another person when they'd rather use it to help themselves or their own family. You can argue that these people "deserve" to be taken care of, but no one else should be forced to take on their burden.

[Stir]

Also, there is where voluntary donation and charity comes in. There is no moral way you can argue that a person should be forced to take the income they earn with their own work and give it away to another person when they'd rather use it to help themselves or their own family. You can argue that these people "deserve" to be taken care of, but no one else should be forced to take on their burden.

That's a stupid argument. The very fact that you are part of a society means that you have the responsibility to take care of your society. That's what governments are for; to take care of its people.
As for voluntary donations and charity: Oh, come on! You can't trust people at large to give freely and willingly. The premise is nice, but naive. History has taught us time and again that without a healthcare system, far too many people end up just rotting away. You might be against such acts of socialism that prevent this from happening, but I am of the opinion that free-for-all capitalism is cold, inhumane and monstrous in nature.

FYI, your argument is exactly why everyone hates the US. It's not even the fact that that country constantly attacks everyone for money. It's the fact that that country is completely willing to abuse its own citizens in the name of greed.

[Gandrake]

unless you are going to make eating real food cost less than potato chips, sandwiches and soda this shit is really not going to make a difference.

[Nevintsha]

It's nobody's business what I eat (as long as it's not people) or how fat I want to be. I bet you were freaking out when SOPA/ACTA tried to take your internet away.

So stay the fuck away from my donuts. -.-

in b4 US-vs-Euro argument.

I feel the same way XD

[Providence]

That's a stupid argument. The very fact that you are part of a society means that you have the responsibility to take care of your society. That's what governments are for; to take care of its people.
As for voluntary donations and charity: Oh, come on! You can't trust people at large to give freely and willingly. The premise is nice, but naive. History has taught us time and again that without a healthcare system, far too many people end up just rotting away. You might be against such acts of socialism that prevent this from happening, but I am of the opinion that free-for-all capitalism is cold, inhumane and monstrous in nature.

FYI, your argument is exactly why everyone hates the US. It's not even the fact that that country constantly attacks everyone for money. It's the fact that that country is completely willing to abuse its own citizens in the name of greed.

its so funny to hear 1 person argue that we shouldn't be forced to pay a tax to feed people who are literally starving to death and then hear someone else say that we all should collectively pay for someone elses medicare

[omglazor]

I am just going to chime in once again with: fat and carbs are not bad for you! Creating AOE legislation to target carbs or fat as being somehow bad for you is absolutely ridiculous. One could try to target "low quality foods usually consumed in large quantities that will cause people to get fat if consumed in such large quantities" (LQFUCILQTWCPTGFICISLQ bill) or something, but you'll be damned if you can identify all types of such foods and to then get someone to inspect individual items for classification. Hell, I bet at that point the bureaucracy and the agencies that would have to be created to support this 'tax' (even if we just tack it all onto USDA) would cost more than the tax would bring in.