Jedi Sentinel/Sith Marauder PvE Guide

[Arlee]

Jedi Sentinel/Sith Marauder PvE Guide

This guide is intended to be used as an endgame PvE guide and will be updated as I get a chance to test more things/more theorycrafting tools become available. For right now I am only going to cover the Watchman/Annihilation and Combat/Carnage trees. The Focus/Rage tree seems to be very PvP centric and I just haven’t had the chance to see how viable it is for PvE yet. If the Focus/Rage tree does turn out to be a good alternative to the other two in a PvE setting then I’ll add it later.

Sources and other useful links

Jedi Sentinel – A Primer by Maefly
Carnage/Combat stat weight spreadsheet
Annihilation/Watchman Compendium by Genu
Formula List
SWTOR Official Website
TORhead
How Attacks and Damage are Calculated

Stat Priority

For both Combat/Carnage and Watchman/Annihilation the priority order for stats is the same.

100% Accuracy > Strength > Power > Surge> Critical

Accuracy

As with all dps classes actually hitting your target is a must! One nice thing that they have done with this stat is that any Accuracy you get over 100% reduces your target’s defense. This doesn’t mean keep stacking it past 100% though, just that if you go a bit over you aren’t wasting any stats. There is no good reason as far as I can see right now not to cap out your Accuracy.

Strength

Strength is your main stat as a Jedi Sentinel/Sith Marauder. It not only increases your Crit rating (at a better rate than Crit) but it also increases your bonus damage by 0.2 for each point of Strength.

There is a bit of diminishing returns with the Crit you get off Strength, but there is no diminishing return on the damage bonus. So Strength will never fall below Crit in importance.

This chart, that Maefly put together, illustrates the fall off on Crit return from Str.

Strength 257 334 400 466 543 630 705 792 858 945 1020 1090 1158

Crit% 2.02 2.60 3.08 3.56 4.11 4.71 5.22 5.80 6.23 6.78 7.25 7.68 8.09

Strength/1% Crit 127.2277 128.4615 129.8701 130.8989 132.1168 133.7580 135.0575 136.5517 137.7207 139.3805 140.6897 141.9271 143.1396

Power

Every point of Power gives you a 0.23 damage increase. There is also no diminishing return on this stat.

Surge

Surge is a stat that increases the size of your critical strikes. There is a bit of a diminishing return on Surge though as the more you add the less it will return on the Crit Multiplier. At 291 surge rating you hit 75% crit multiplier. After this point is where the diminishing returns of Surge starts to really kick in. You can stack surge past that (meaning your surge isn't wasted after 291) but in most cases you wouldn't want to pass up power for surge beyond that point.




Crit

Critical Strike rating obviously increases your crit chance. However, there are some pretty hefty diminishing returns on how much each point will increase your Crit Chance. For Watchman/Annihilation crit becomes slightly more attractive than it is for combat due to DoTs being able to crit. You do still have to pay attention to the diminishing returns on crit though and Power still will give a more consistent return on your damage done.



You can see from this graph that the point where diminishing returns start to really kick in is at 25% crit (730 rating). It takes 269 rating to go from 20% (461 rating) to 25% and 460 rating to go from 25% to 30% (1190 rating). With this info ideally you really only want to stack crit rating to that point.

Specs

Before I separate Combat/Carnage and Watchman/Annihilation I wanted to talk briefly about Centering/Fury. Centering/Fury is basically the thing that enables you to use the main CD’s you get as a Sentinel/Marauder.

Inspiration/Bloodthirst

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Centering/Fury to inspire you and your party, increasing all damage and healing dealt by 15%. Lasts 15 seconds.

For the most part you will use Inspiration/Bloodthirst on CD (5 min CD). There might be times when you will want to hold it for a part when more damage is going out or for burn phases, but most of the time you’ll be using this as soon as it is off CD.

Zen/Berserk

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Centering/Fury to enter a Zen state. Lasts for 6 charges. This effect varies based on your current lightsaber form:
Shii-Cho Form: Slash costs no focus and strikes 1 additional nearby enemy.
Juyo Form: Increases the critical chance of your burn attacks by 100% and causes burn damage to heal your party for 1% of max health each tick.
Ataru Form: Reduces the focus cost of Slash and Blade Rush by 1 and reduces their global cooldown by 0.5 seconds.

The CD for Zen/Berserk is only 1.5 seconds so this will be what you use every time you have 30 centering or fury and Inspiration is on CD. For Combat/Carnage this basically allows you to use your force power more efficiently. For Watchman/Annihilation it helps to increase you DoT damage and helps in the healing of your party.

Transcendence/Predation

Requires and converts 30 stacks of Centering/Fury to issue Transcendence to you and your party, increasing movement speed by 50% and melee and ranged defense by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds.

While Transcendence/Predation is only on a 1.5 second CD you probably won’t be using it much. It is basically good if your group needs increased damage reduction and Inspiration is on CD.

Combat/Carnage

Tree

Preferred Combat Spec

There are about 4 points in the spec that are optional. Insight and Focused Slash are the only truly required talents outside the combat tree. The last four points are sort of debatable, though I personally think that Quick Recovery and Master Focus have the best arguments for them.

Preferred Carnage Spec

There are about 4 points in the spec that are "optional". Malice and Enraged Slash are the only truly required talents outside the carnage tree. The last four points are sort of debatable, though I personally think that Quick Recovery and Ravager have the best arguments for them and it would be silly to not take them.

Forms and Abilities

Ataru Form

Enters an acrobatic lightsaber form, increasing accuracy by 3%. In addition, your successful melee attacks have a 20% chance to trigger a second strike that deals 134 energy damage. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

Basically... if you are Combat/Carnage and not using this stance you are failing.

As far as a rotation goes it’s not so much a rotation as a priority system. You might get into a little bit of a rotation here and there but it doesn’t always line up exactly the same and you basically just need to know what your most important abilities are and work them in accordingly.

As Combat your main sources of building focus/fury will be Force Leap/ Force Charge (but only at the start of the fight, or when you are switching targets to something that is far enough away to use it, or when you get knocked away from the boss and need to get back to him quick), Zealous Strike/ Battering Assault, and Strike/ Assault.

Ideally you will want to start every fight with Force Leap/Force Charge and use Zealous Strike/Battering Assault on CD to generate more Focus/Fury. When Zealous Strike/Battering Assault are on CD and you need focus/fury you should use Strike/Assault.

Your main sources of using focus are Precision Slash/Gore, Blade Rush/Massacre, and Blade Storm/Force Scream. Whenever possible you should try to use Precision Slash/Gore right before Blade Rush/Massacre which means you need to have at least 6 focus banked first. Try to use Blade Rush/Massacre about every other or every two attacks to keep the most chance on the extra attacks up.

Priority List

1. Precision Slash/Gore
2. Master Strike/Ravage
3. Dispatch/Vicious Throw (under 20%)
4. Zealous Strike/Battering Assualt
5. Blade Storm/Force Scream
6. Blade Rush/Massacre
7. Strike/Assault

Ok so first, this is a priority list during a fight not a list of the order you should do things, or an order of how to do things in the beginning of a fight. Highest priority is first.

Watchman/Annihilation
Just wanted to say I have considerably less experience with Watchman/Annihilation and this section is high on my priorities for flushing out and improving.

Tree

Watchman Spec

Annihilation

Forms and Abilities

Juyo Form

Enters an offensive lightsaber form, causing your melee attacks to increase all damage dealt by 2% for 15 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds.

Basically... if you are Watchman/Annihilation and not using this stance you are failing.

Most of the time you are going to be spending your Focus/Fury as soon as you get it because you will need to make sure your DoTs stay up. One of the things I need to look into is if it makes a difference on how soon you refresh your DoTs if there is any wasted dps there. The basic idea of Watchman dps is Focus/Fury Generator, Focus/Fury Spender, Focus/Fury Generator, Focus/Fury spender, etc…

As Watchman/Annihilation your main sources of building focus will be Force Leap/Force Charge and Zealous Strike/ Battering Assault. You can also of course use Strike/Assault as a filler Focus/Fury generator.

The major Focus/Fury spenders for Watchman are Overload Saber/Deadly Saber, Cauterize/Rupture, Merciless Slash/Annihilate, and Blade Storm/Force Scream.

Priority List

1. Cauterize/Rupture
2. Overload Saber/Deadly Saber
3. Dispatch/Vicious Throw (under 20%)
4. Merciless Slash/Annihilate
5. Zealous Strike/Battering Assualt
6. Blade Storm/Force Scream
7. Master Strike/Ravage
8. Strike/Assualt

Ok so first, this is a priority list during a fight not a list of the order you should do things, or an order of how to do things in the beginning of a fight. Most important skills are listed first, to less important.

Other abilities for both specs

Master Strike/Ravage- This is a great filler for when Zealous Strike/Battering Assault is on CD and you are out of Focus/Fury. Master Strike/Ravage is even better when you use it right after Blade Rush/Massacre.

Riposte/Retaliation- What makes this ability so awesome is that it is totally off the GCD. So those times when you have a lot of focus/fury and the GCD seems like it is taking its own sweet time to go away, Riposte/Retaliation is your answer.

Force Kick/Disruption-The beauty of this interrupt is that it is off the GCD and most cast times are long enough that even if you have to hit Strike/Assault to generate Focus/Fury you can still catch it in time to interrupt. So be a good dps and interrupt things

Valorous Call/Frenzy- This is an ability I am sort of confused by. I mean it is great for at the beginning of a fight to get Inspiration/Bloodthirst up (be careful about not pulling agrro though). Outside of that I am not sure what it is really good for... I mean for the most part I seem to not run into issues generating Focus/Fury. This is definitely an ability I am looking at more. Anyway, it's there definitely use it to get the most out of your buffs.

[Leonard McCoy]

Great summation thank you. I've enjoyed my senitnel immensely so far and I'd like to pick your brain on a few things if you got a minute:

1. How much important do you place on using riposte? I know whenever its up I basically always use but should I use it to the extent that I neglect one of the other abilities due to focus cost?
2. How would you feel if the devs baked cauterize into zealous strike? It feels to me that the rotation is a bit bloated and could use a trim or two.
3. Is it better to combine relic cooldowns with Inspiration or is it better to seperate them?
4. Do we know what stats are used to calculate the dots? are they affected by alacrity for instance?

[Deleted]

Great job. I'm not playing sentinel/marauder but grats on spending time and though for this guide!

[Valeron]

Nice guide. I'm curious for watchmen spec that crit is prioritized so low. I figure with the procs from the burn effects based on crits that it would be a higher stat value.

[Beavis]

Great post! I'd like to add a pvp guide:

1. Get Champion Gear
2a. Find healer
2b. Convince healer to healbot you
3. Faceroll to victory
4. /carusoglasses

Yes, I'm bitter that I chose the wrong warrior AC.

[Deleted]

Great summation thank you. I've enjoyed my senitnel immensely so far and I'd like to pick your brain on a few things if you got a minute:

1. How much important do you place on using riposte? I know whenever its up I basically always use but should I use it to the extent that I neglect one of the other abilities due to focus cost?
2. How would you feel if the devs baked cauterize into zealous strike? It feels to me that the rotation is a bit bloated and could use a trim or two.
3. Is it better to combine relic cooldowns with Inspiration or is it better to seperate them?
4. Do we know what stats are used to calculate the dots? are they affected by alacrity for instance?

Speaking for combat spec:

1) Riposte is only worth using in PvP for maximum burst. In PvE, there are better rotations and you shouldn't use it. As watchman this is probably different, because you have more focus in general so that might make it worth using in PvE as well.
2) Don't agree with this change, I don't like simplifications of classes (the skill cap in MMOs isn't that high in terms of using abilities and reaction time).
3) In PvP, combine them for maximum burst. Also combine them in PvE for synergy effects.
4) Can't help you here.

[Clymene]

Your priority list for Annihilation is wrong. Why would you use force scream? It only hits harder than Vicious Slash on heavily armored targets which should not be an issue in PVE. Also Vicious Slash can reset Rupture. Using only Annihilate to reset Rupture means if you get lucky you can only reset rupture every 9 seconds when you talented it to have a chance to reset every 6 seconds.

The guide on Sithwarrior.com that you linked has all this information.

I have to say though Beavis' PVP guide is pretty much spot on.

[Arlee]

Great summation thank you. I've enjoyed my senitnel immensely so far and I'd like to pick your brain on a few things if you got a minute:

1. How much important do you place on using riposte? I know whenever its up I basically always use but should I use it to the extent that I neglect one of the other abilities due to focus cost?
2. How would you feel if the devs baked cauterize into zealous strike? It feels to me that the rotation is a bit bloated and could use a trim or two.
3. Is it better to combine relic cooldowns with Inspiration or is it better to seperate them?
4. Do we know what stats are used to calculate the dots? are they affected by alacrity for instance?

Thanks for your feedback For your questions:

1. I personally love riposte/retalliation... but then I find waiting on the GCD highly annoying. For combat/carnage it basically has to be relegated to a excess focus/fury dump. If you use it when you only have very little focus/fury and precision slash/gore are about to come of cd, you might have to wait before using those which is something you don't want to do. For watchman/annihilation you can pretty much use it whenever it is up to fill in those GCDs. The only thing you have to watch out for there is not letting you DoTs fall off.

2. I am not sure what you mean by baking zealous strike into cauterize. The CD on Zealous strike is too long for it be usable as a way to update it... I don't think simply melding the two together would workout well in the end either. The Watchman spec does feel less fluid to me though, and I do think something could be done to help with that. I am just not sure what would be the best option there.

3. Definitely combine all cooldowns you can. You'll get the most bang for your buck there.

4. As far as I know Alacrity does not affect our dots (meaning I haven't found anything that would indicate it does) but this is also something I need to put forth some time into to make sure of.

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 01:13 PM ----------

Nice guide. I'm curious for watchmen spec that crit is prioritized so low. I figure with the procs from the burn effects based on crits that it would be a higher stat value.

I think for Watchman Spec specifically crit probably is already equal to or a bit above surge (probably definitely above after the surge nerf) this is something I need to look more into. Crit definitely is still less important than Strength and Power though because of the raw damage increases those give without diminishing returns or the need to get a crit.

[Leonard McCoy]

2. I am not sure what you mean by baking zealous strike into cauterize. The CD on Zealous strike is too long for it be usable as a way to update it... I don't think simply melding the two together would workout well in the end either. The Watchman spec does feel less fluid to me though, and I do think something could be done to help with that. I am just not sure what would be the best option there.

Zealous Strike and cauterize share a 15 second cooldown. If you remove cauterize from the game but "bake" its effect into Zealous strike the rotation looses a bit of bloat. This will however move zealous strike to 3rd in your rotation I believe.

[Arlee]

Zealous Strike and cauterize share a 15 second cooldown. If you remove cauterize from the game but "bake" its effect into Zealous strike the rotation looses a bit of bloat. This will however move zealous strike to 3rd in your rotation I believe.

That would work, but I am not sure it is something they would actually do. Basically it would be combining a focus spender with a generator and I don't think that would fit their model very well. They'd have to do something else to Zealous Strike (like reducing the amount of focus it generates or reducing the damage it does) and I have the feeling the tradeoff wouldn't be worth it. Like I said, I do think something needs to be done there though.

[Deleted]

Your priority list for Annihilation is wrong. Why would you use force scream? It only hits harder than Vicious Slash on heavily armored targets which should not be an issue in PVE. Also Vicious Slash can reset Rupture. Using only Annihilate to reset Rupture means if you get lucky you can only reset rupture every 9 seconds when you talented it to have a chance to reset every 6 seconds.

The guide on Sithwarrior.com that you linked has all this information.

I have to say though Beavis' PVP guide is pretty much spot on.

Damage reduction for kinetic/energy damage and white attacks is the same, how the hell kinetic/energy damage can hit for more on high armored targets than light armored targets compared to Vicious Slash?

[Laundry]

As a marauder in a high-end raiding guild I need to say, your annihilation priority seems to be a bit off. Not to say it's completely wrong, but I highly disagree with having Force Scream in there. There is no talent in anni that specifically buffs it or lowers its rage cost, and being at 4 rage that is a LOT to spend on damage that doesnt receive any benefit from the tree. Also, The phantom talent in anni is nice, but isn't required. Most of the damage in PvE content is avoidable, if not all of it, so it REALLY isnt necessary. I would rather buff vicious slash from the rage tree second tier. 2 vicious slashes is going to be more damage than force scream, it's going to cost hte same amount of rage, and has a chance of resetting the cooldown on rupture, our main bleed.

Also, you left out viscious throw, something that should be used ON CD once a boss is sub 20%.

I would say the priority is something more like this:
1. Rupture (Because it has a chance to generate more rage. It crits a lot and ticks very fast)
2. Deadly Saber
3. Viscious Throw
4. Annihilate
5.Vicious Slash
6. Battering Assault
7. Force Charge
8. Assault

The reason BA, charge and Assault are on the bottom is because they are rage builders. You use them when you need rage, not on CD. Disregarding Force Scream because, like I said, it's damage is undermined by 2x vicious slash, which has a 33% chance to reset rupture.

just my 2 cents. You said you didnt have much experience with annihilation, and I do so I thought I'd point out some things

[Slugfest]

Thank you for posting this guide. However there are a few corrections I need to note, at least from a Watchman perspective.

-Stat priority:
100% Accuracy > Strength > Crit > Surge> Power

-Priority List:
1. Zen - Use always when available, if you about to use Adrenal and Relics, line them up here
2. Merciless Slash - if cd-reduction buff is about to expire
3. Dispatch - When target is below 20% hp
4. Cauterize
5. Overload Saber - lined up with Force Charge or Assault
6. Zealous Strike - If resource < 7
7. Slash - If resource >= 7
8. Master Strike - When 2,4 + 5 remaining cd is above 5 seconds.
9. Strike - When nothing else is ready for use or your resource would fall below 5.

Also, Riposite may be ok for pvp but for pve; Off gcd but bad damage per rage. In addition, you need to be attacked to use it. Should never occur, and if, just ignore it. Focus can be spend better.

Pretty much what Clymene said, the sithwarrior.com guide is pretty solid.

[Leonard McCoy]

That would work, but I am not sure it is something they would actually do. Basically it would be combining a focus spender with a generator and I don't think that would fit their model very well. They'd have to do something else to Zealous Strike (like reducing the amount of focus it generates or reducing the damage it does) and I have the feeling the tradeoff wouldn't be worth it. Like I said, I do think something needs to be done there though.

I don't see why they'd have to nerf the ability. Sentinels already have both abilities, its mostly a quality of life change so that the rotation isn't as bloated. Just tack on the cauterize effect to the end of zealous strike and get rid of cauterize. Or get ride of both and make a new spell Cauterizing Strike. Also from a pvp perspective, I've noticed that even at lvl 50 I almost never build up 30 stacks for transcendence. Transcendence is incredibly strong and useful in pvp but I find I almost never use it. Would a centering reduction be in order? say to 15 stacks?

[Arlee]

As a marauder in a high-end raiding guild I need to say, your annihilation priority seems to be a bit off. Not to say it's completely wrong, but I highly disagree with having Force Scream in there. There is no talent in anni that specifically buffs it or lowers its rage cost, and being at 4 rage that is a LOT to spend on damage that doesnt receive any benefit from the tree. Also, The phantom talent in anni is nice, but isn't required. Most of the damage in PvE content is avoidable, if not all of it, so it REALLY isnt necessary. I would rather buff vicious slash from the rage tree second tier. 2 vicious slashes is going to be more damage than force scream, it's going to cost hte same amount of rage, and has a chance of resetting the cooldown on rupture, our main bleed.

Also, you left out viscious throw, something that should be used ON CD once a boss is sub 20%.

I would say the priority is something more like this:
1. Rupture (Because it has a chance to generate more rage. It crits a lot and ticks very fast)
2. Deadly Saber
3. Viscious Throw
4. Annihilate
5.Vicious Slash
6. Battering Assault
7. Force Charge
8. Assault

The reason BA, charge and Assault are on the bottom is because they are rage builders. You use them when you need rage, not on CD. Disregarding Force Scream because, like I said, it's damage is undermined by 2x vicious slash, which has a 33% chance to reset rupture.

just my 2 cents. You said you didnt have much experience with annihilation, and I do so I thought I'd point out some things

Thanks for the feedback... Like I said I have considerably less experience with Watchman and it is one of the main things I am going to be looking at for updating. What you say makes a lot of sense to me, but since I am at work atm I am going to wait until I am at home and have time to really look at/think about this stuff and hopefully try some things out.

And yea I noticed after I posted that I had somehow managed to totally miss vicious throw which was just totally a case of herp derp on my part.... was just a mistake though and I'll add it asap

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 02:36 PM ----------

Thank you for posting this guide. However there are a few corrections I need to note, at least from a Watchman perspective.

-Stat priority:
100% Accuracy > Strength > Crit > Surge> Power

Thanks, and my main thing with this is... well crit and surge are great but they only do something for you when you crit, whereas Power always increases the damage you do. So it doesn't make sense to me why for watchman/annihilation it would be better to increase things that are only sometimes helpful as opposed to something that always is helpful.

That's mainly why I have it set as being the same for both specs right now.

---------- Post added 2012-02-14 at 02:41 PM ----------

I don't see why they'd have to nerf the ability. Sentinels already have both abilities, its mostly a quality of life change so that the rotation isn't as bloated. Just tack on the cauterize effect to the end of zealous strike and get rid of cauterize. Or get ride of both and make a new spell Cauterizing Strike. Also from a pvp perspective, I've noticed that even at lvl 50 I almost never build up 30 stacks for transcendence. Transcendence is incredibly strong and useful in pvp but I find I almost never use it. Would a centering reduction be in order? say to 15 stacks?

The reason I think that if they were to do it they'd also nerf it is, right now to get the effects of both it takes two GCD's. If they merged them then it would only take one and in my experience with game devs is usually they view that sort of thing as a pretty big buff. So I think they'd feel they would need to balance that out.

As far as a centering reduction for PvP... maybe. If they made it only for PvP. That aspect feels like it works really well to me in PvE currently, and again I'd worry about it being unbalanced if they started messing with it in some way.

[Laundry]

One thing I need to mention now that I didnt earlier, is that berserk/zen should be used after the application of rupture, and between the first and third applications of deadly saber.

[Leonard McCoy]

As far as a centering reduction for PvP... maybe. If they made it only for PvP. That aspect feels like it works really well to me in PvE currently, and again I'd worry about it being unbalanced if they started messing with it in some way.

I agree that's why I suggest that the reduction for should only be for transendance. A reduction in the centering cost would be a pretty good boost IMO. Having said that I only recenlty hit 50 and haven't completely geared out yet, I'm curious if I'll have more opportunities to hit 30 stacks once im decked out a bit more.

[Blznsmri]

I disagree with your Combat Spec on two talents.

Jedi Crusader, at least to me, is a PvP talent and has relatively low to no use in a PvE environment. You're not a tank, enemies shouldn't be targeting you long enough to get the full effect of Rebuke.

Temperance is also, at least to me, a PvP talent being that it only helps you build Focus while on trash or the puzzle boss in EV/ Bonethrasher in Karagga's.

I would use this build for nearly all encounters.

Fleet-footed for bosses that snare, and Defensive Roll to reduce AoE's.


That said I'm a Combat sentinel that's cleared all Normal Content, Heroic Karagga's and working on Heroic Soa.

[NoRest4Wicked]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=72872

Is a very good guide with a break down on all 3 talent trees.

As far as crit/surge, its my understanding you want both to the soft cap (30%/35%) before focusing on power.

[Egga]

Surge just got slammed to the ground reducing it's efficiency, i had 88.21% surge yesterday and today i had 74.42

" Surge rating has been re-balanced. It now reaches diminishing returns the same way as other damage ratings, and its per point damage contribution has been reduced by approximately 10%.
"