Has LFR done more harm than good?

[Dhurn]

Legalizing smoking crack and shooting heroin would probably be met with popularity and be successful (especially financially) ... doesn't mean it's good for the general society.

"Success" =/= greater good for the game.

What world do you live in that you think legalizing hard drugs would be met with popularity...most people are sensible and understand the destructive process of addiction and why that shit is illegal. Comparing that to LFR is totally deluded.

[Necrophiel]

to be fair, the "win"telligence of the average LFR raider has gone up since release. haggers(hagara..), for instance, isn't nearly the lollercaust she was when it was first made available. i can't really speak for or against the lfrleets as i havent experienced it myself.

my bigger issue is there's a huuuge gap in player competency in LFD between normals, heroics, and then the DS heroics. in normal dungeons you clearly have players who are fairly new to the game or the class that they're playing. mechanics aren't as unforgiving if you happen to slide on by, though. i can't tell you how many groups i've been in where the chains on Rom'ogg just don't get dps'd. sure, one or most of the group dies, but the boss also dies, everyone rolls need, and no one learns anything. no harm, no foul. right?

except then these players push to 85 very quickly and go to the regular cata heroics. and it is just a nightmare. things seem to level out in the newer heroics, but jeez. i just skip over the 346/353 heroics unless it's a guild run, even on alts.

sort of went on a tangent there, but my pseudo point i'm trying to make is that LFR appears to be teaching new players/raiders the 101's of raid encounters(dont stand in mudbutt, etc etc.), slight caveat is that they in turn become dicks? isn't that the crux of raiding? you get loot, you get snobby.

[SamR]

You mean us who carry the scrubs with no gems and enchants who do 5k dps, who are after a token or two for our offspecs because blizzard removed them from valor, and made it impossible for us to get it any other way since other raiders need the heroic tokens, only to lose it to randomscrub who took their 5th leg token just to be annoying don't you.

You must have missed the memo. The "all the baddies in LFR are gonna be crying when skilled raiders like me stop carrying them" argument is dead. The new argument to hate on LFR with is "LFR is so easy that even blind monkeys can beat it".

See, the original anti-LFR argument has failed to materialize. Some geared raiders stopped going into LFR and the "baddies" were fine on their own. Heck, some of them even got better at the fights! So now the proper argument for chest-thumpers such as yourself is that the "baddies" can beat LFR because it is just so brainlessly easy.

And anyone who brags about carrying someone through brainlessly easy content("OMG, I totally carried you through the Crown Chemical boss!") looks rather silly.

I hope this post has helped you to refine and improve your anti-LFR rants for the future.

[mostlyharmless]

I wonder if LFR has hurt pugging at all? It's tedious to do both LFR and DS10 on more than one character. If I run all 3 of my characters through DS10 and LFR, I've killed all the same bosses and cleared all the same trash 6 times in a week!

[lunchbox2042]

I'm trying to figure out a reason for a boss to have so many different abilities in LFR if they can all essentially be ignored. It seems pointless to be honest.

[Shamgar]

You have 3 options. LFR, Reg with guild, or Heroic With guild. You have more options now than you ever have had before.

Except heroic and normal is mutual exclusive?
WotLK: normal 10, normal 25 , heroic 10, heroic 25, valor points.

[Madruga]

LFR is fine and doesn´t need to be looked at.

It served its purpose, now everybody can see content and pretty much raid whenever they want. Also, I don´t take your point in saying it doesn´t prepare people to normal mode... Before LFR, there was NOTHING that could prepare you to raid, but to raid itself... LFR, if anything, gives at least an idea of how the real fight is gonna be like; I also found it easier to explain the fight to newcomers when comparing the mechanics to the LFR version.

And lastly, LFR stopped the bleeding of subs... With the coming of SWTOR, you could expect an earthquake in the number of subs, but the decrease was minimal. Expect more easy content in the future; the days of hard WOW are over.

[Shamgar]

no. it's not meant for you. and i have settled on narcissistic for you, as you have clearly demonstrated

Explain the me exactly how i am narcissistic. Is it because i wish to maximize my characters potential by getting offspec loot that i use each week in my guilds raids? Is it because i wish to use the only viable way to do that, after they removed tier tokens from valor vendor?
Just give me the fucking tier tokens from valor and LFR can fuck off but until then it better get fixed.

[Stede]

I completely disagree and grant this OP my seal of disapproval. That LFR emboldens noobs to act like they're pro is an unfortunate consequence of LFR.

However, LFR has greatly helped people who are raiding in Normal. The tanking 4-set bonuses are unmatched. The trinkets from spine are critical. The "act like you've been here before" my raiders walk in with forms the basis for new and nuanced strategies. We wipe less on "never seen this fight before" stuff.

That said, I've paid my dues ad haven't needed anything from LFR in a month, so I'm not really bothering with it. I also don't bring punks into my normal runs. So, I'm pretty out of touch with your pain.

[Hoid]

IMO, I think LFR should be a tad bit harder. And it is nothing like normal and hard modes, so I don't think it prepares people enough for other modes. And one more thing, I think it makes less people overall want to raid more after completing LFR. People will say "I completed LFR and saw the story, why would I want to do it all over again for the same loot?".

I have faith in Blizzard though and I think they will work out the details and make it better with time.

[Anyankha]

after they removed tier tokens from valor vendor?
Just give me the fucking tier tokens from valor and LFR can fuck off but until then it better get fixed.

And they got removed from vendor because people like you kept QQing about how "casuals and baddies are farming LFD and buying the tiers we rightfully earn!!! /rageee"
Be careful of what you wish...

[Shamgar]

And they got removed from vendor because people like you kept QQing about how "casuals and baddies are farming LFD and buying the tiers we rightfully earn!!! /rageee"
Be careful of what you wish...

People like me? Assume much? What kind of people am i?

[Anyankha]

People like me? Assume much? What kind of people am i?

The type of people that feel entitled to loot (and call names) just because you claim to do more DPS than others.

Next time get all your guildies together and stack groups (vanqs, prots, conqs) if you want those offspec tokens thaaat badly. Works for me, surely it'll work for you. And oh, run of Tuesdays/Wednesdays.

[smelltheglove]

Explain the me exactly how i am narcissistic. Is it because i wish to maximize my characters potential by getting offspec loot that i use each week in my guilds raids? Is it because i wish to use the only viable way to do that, after they removed tier tokens from valor vendor?
Just give me the fucking tier tokens from valor and LFR can fuck off but until then it better get fixed.

you're a narcissist because you think it's all about you, what you want, etc. the entire game is not meant to cater to you and only you, get over it. if you dont have 4 pc, gues what, rng is rng. if that dont work, down moar bosses since you are soooo awesome.

let me guess, with your whining about your offspec 4 pc, you're also one that uses the term "welfare epics", and feels that everything is being handed to casuals, etc. but here you are lining up at the same through for your handout.

seriously, get over yourself

[Daez]

If Blizzard would only implement some sort of system where the community could police itself in LFR raids. OH WAIT!

Seriously, if you know someone is totally sucking and your group does not kick them then blame your group not Blizzard. If your group can pull it off without kicking them then all the power to the people that have no problem carrying people that have to be carried. Also, back when I raided in guilds, I got quite used to carrying the worst members of the guild because they kissed ass the most or were sleeping with the GM or raid leader. Your narrative where no one ever gets carried in a guild raid or PUG raid (other than LFR) is just not what I've experienced in my play time and I'm sure many people haven't experienced either unless they are in truly hardcore guilds. In which case they have no real reason to be using LFR.

---------- Post added 2012-02-15 at 06:48 PM ----------

Also, my guess is you only have perspective from a DPS point of view. Try doing LFR as a tank or a healer. When the tanks suck or the healers suck, the amount of progress you will make in LFR is negligible.

[Marema]

There is nothing wrong with LFR. LFR is great.

LFR is also not the only option on how to raid DS. LFR is working how it was intended. Letting people with no experience; little experience; average experience; or hardcore experience all get some valor points by doing some quick LFR bosses. If you happen to get some loot along the way then great; otherwise people should accept that fact that they get some gold and some VP and move on with their lives.

Personally I could care less if 15 people died in fire and got carried by the 10 others. I don't count on or expect 24 other random people to "pull their weight" in order for me to have some fun. I sign up to LFR expecting people to die. I sign up expecting people to roll need on a downgrade; sidegrade; upgrade; offspec. I sign up expecting to face roll some bosses and collect 500 VP at the end of it.

If you expect anything more then LFR is not for you.

[Pancaspe]

LFR is by far the best content ever introduced to the game.

At this point in the expansion my 25 man raid has a lot of applicants we want to trial run. When taking them through DS the Raid Leader only has to point out differences between Normal and LFR. So much easier.

[Eren Jaeger]

I see your points, but honestly, I use LFR for my alts. I like heroic modes and raid those on my main; some people want to see content and get gear (super casual) and LFR is ideal for them. Pretty sure most people enjoy the challenge and gear from real raids.

[Halicia]

I wonder if LFR has hurt pugging at all?

If anything, no. For the first time on my server since Cata came, I see people pugging current content. Granted this is likely to change with the advent of crossrealms, but we shall see.

[Anyankha]

If anything, no. For the first time on my server since Cata came, I see people pugging current content. Granted this is likely to change with the advent of crossrealms, but we shall see.

It shouldn't hurt DS pugs since you cannot do reg/H DS cross server.