Has LFR done more harm than good?

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Not only that. Some people seem to think that always higher ilvl = better, and sometimes is not. For example, the DPS plater bracers from morchok (384) are better than the plate DPS VP (397) ones for arms warriors. Haste is shit for arms. VP ones have haste, morchok ones do not. So yeah, I'm sorry Lilly32, but I will keep rolling on those 384 bracers since they are better itemized than the VP ones I currently have. Not everything is about ilvl.

Yep.

Use the gear with the best performance not ilevel. If I want to look pretty for places like WoW-Heroes I'd log out in the 397, but healing it will always be the gear that produces the best thoroughput.

[Eon Drache]

You should stop dying in phase 1 then


The thing with lfr or dungeons for that matter, it's fun that it's abit challenging the first weeks and then I'd rather just be quickly done with it. Because looking at experience from 5 man, bad player stays bad. They don't get friggin' better
If I were to spend 7 wipes every week on ultraxion because of dps/hps req, or 10 wipes on on madness due to tanks not learning how to rotate cd's for impale or dps switching to bolt. 5 other wipes on warlord because melee just can't move out the fucking way

Every week? No thanks

OMG I get to see his jaw for 1 minute out of a 10+ minute fight.

[Shmeh]

Never once seeing his face out of both encounters?

The final platform... You should be attacking his face.

[Rolard]

Clearly you have. Not only that, but you are also taking it out of context. It was a reply to a post claiming heroic raiders were carried in LFR, and i merely replied most of the bads in LFR are enchantless, gemless and do shit dps. If you wish to dispute this fact please do, but you are yet again building strawmen. Note that i not once mentioned my apparent "leetness", neither did i claim tokens are for raiders. If you mean that i do not enjoy losing them to people who already have them, and take them for griefing purposes or to vendor, by all means i stand by that. Next time, read the text you quote carefully before you make a fool of yourself.

To be fair. You have 410 tier rolling on 384 tier tokens. How do you know that other person isn't also rolling for their offspec?

[James Peruggia]

There will be the people who don't care; however, if people are interested in learning, LFR works out great. It is a forgiving environment where you can learn the encounter. The people who are interested in helping the raid, they will move out of bad stuff. Noone can deny LFR's success in adding accessibility and Blizzard seems happy with it so expect to see it for the long run.

I'm the one who is interested in learning and LFR and it turns out that LFR works pretty good for me.

[tomehere]

@op

I don't think that the main point of lfr is learning the encounters for normal mode, the main goal is letting everyone experience the bosses in the patch. The gear is not that good, or guaranteed, and the difficulty is tuned down.

Basically, If you don't feel like being part of that group that does lfr, then don't. There are not a lot of advantages to doing it anyway, and in the end it has done good just by letting people who would never be on the cutting edge of raiding, experience content that they would only get to see after it is old.

[Fenixhart]

More of this nonsense?


I appreciate the LFR for all it is-Something there to fill my Valour points, let me get my raid fix when the guild is unavailable, and Gives me a general view of what to expect.


How is going from LFR to normal any less of a step from going to Normal to HArdmode? many Hardmode encounters have additional or empowered effects that force you to play in ways you haven't previously. Going from LFR ro Normal should be no different.


The only lamentable fact about it is the loot going to questionable people...that's it. The rest is a non-issue.


Unless you're one of those poor sods that think Blizzard sets out on a mission to make people into Spartan-Class raiders. They're entertainers, not Fitness trainers.

[Eren Jaeger]

The groups i've been getting have been much much worse. Guess the carriers are finally getting sick of it and realise its faster to run HoT heroics to get VP capped.

Queued LFR 2nd half this morning - We wiped on ultarxion twice before I left. 80% of the healing was done by myself (Hpally) and a shaman. Only 3 dps in the entire raid were above 20K dps.

Well I would do HOT instead of LFR, but there are items I'd like from Spine and Madness (also, legs and shoulders are not available from VP). I have only had 3 bad LFR groups out of my 8 85 characters (so I think that's a pretty good ratio). I am sorry you get 'bad' groups; I know they can be incredibly frustrating.

[shammypowa]

LFG tool would be flawless - if there was actual consequences for bad behavior and cross-server chat and friends list to strength community and encourage socialization.

[Nigeldruid]

LFR is in a good spot. It could be a tad harder, but it does its job.

It should have more consequences for being "clueless" (used in the nicer sense of the word). As it is atm there is absolutely no reason to not be AFK in LFR. Furthermore they should remove the incentive for "real raider" (read: people who have the time raid) to go LFR, maybe even make it share lockout. Right now, do 8k dps? It's fine someone will pick up the slack. Incapable of healing properly? It's fine someone will pick up the slack. Died to a simple mechanic? It's fine someone will pick up the slack. The only fight where there is any "pressure" on anyone in the raid is Ultraxion (on the tanks), and look how many wipes that is causing?

I enjoy LFR. I use it to prepare for the "real fights", test out new gear setups etc. so for me it's in a good spot, but as a place for people to learn to raid? Not so much... A better solution would be giving people the ability pug cross realm (like www.openraid.eu : not trying to advertise, I have nothing to do with the site), this way you would have a leader, a guy willing to setup and organize the raid, you would have some sort of requirement other than an arbitrary ilvl that can be achieved by buying BoE blues, and you'd have some sort of quality control on the people in the group. Yes you might see fewer raids kicking about, but they'd be of higher quality, and people would actually want to be in them, and do well!

[Shamgar]

To be fair. You have 410 tier rolling on 384 tier tokens. How do you know that other person isn't also rolling for their offspec?

That is certainly possible, but in at least as often as not it is hunters doing it, often with 384 or 397 tier equipped in the token they roll for. All i'm asking really is to put the tier token from normal mode back on the valor vendor, so it is possible in a timely manner to get a proper offspec set, without either exploiting the hideous LFR or be lucky with the RNG versus people who roll need on everything to grief. As for the itemlevel difference, it is almost always worth it to replace even a 410 item with a 384 tier piece if it means getting you 4 set. Part of the problem with ridiculous OP set bonuses There is no problem with this, as people could replace their LFR pieces with valor pieces as they earn it.

[hihu]

To be fair I kind of agree with OP.

Last week we took a druid healer for one of our 10 man pugs, the guy had 388 ilvl exclusively from LFR and points, and as we were in a rush we took him in even if he had no normal mode experience, coz he didn't look too stupid and all.

The guy was one of these "I want to learn" guys and he was taking LFR seriously but now wanting to experience the higher difficulty.

Turns out the dude was surprised that his flask didn't disapear upon death and he asked for mana pots to regen in between fights, he didn't even know food existed in the game.

I'm not even mentioning the fact that he had absolutely no clue about what the bosses did but the guy also didn't know ANYTHING about the game at all let alone his healing class.

We spent the whole instance without replenish and 2 healing everything, even when the moonkin druid of our raid was explaining every step he had to take to heal correctly and not to fail.

We only had a 2hours window to clean the instance (which we do every week multiple times) and because this guy made us wipe on spine once and several times on madness we didn't have time to finish it.

Point is LFR iirc had 2 main purposes, said blizzard:
1) allow anybody to see the latest bosses, sure anybody can but what's the point if there is absolutely no difficulty involved? i'd rather go watch a movie than do this faceroll raid just to "see" the content.
2) be a stepping stone for new players wanting to go into raiding, by helping them figure out the raid environment and gearing decently before starting real raids, and from my point of view it failed pretty hard at that.

The only thing it is good at is gearing alts of raiders quickly, or get alternate "lower tier" gear when a new tier is released.
The thing it is very BAD at is giving bads/newcomers great gear without educating them at all about the game or about raids.

I also think that if it was 10 man, there would be less players carried through even if the difficulty was the same.

[Deleted]

The mechanics should be identical to norm difficulty but with lower hp of bosses and damage from bosses/adds then I would think LFR will be a good thing.

[CaptainArlong]

False confidence has existed in this game since it launched. The LFR was intended as nothing more than a way for people to experience the content. It's not Blizzard's fault people are using it for more than that and in turn, abusing it.

[jd812]

I stopped doin lfr after the first month of it.

[Morae]

LFR is like a box that should have never been opened and now cannot be ever closed. It is there and there it will stay. Even, if blizz decided it was a mistake, they wouldnt...no...they cannot remove it anymore. Not to mention, as far as I understand, they think of it as success.

While it matters nothing to anyone and nobody cares, imo, it is a bad feature that slowly dribbles poison into the game.

[Mexa]

The only thing they did right with LFR is that it doesnt prepare u for normal modes. Its not supposed to be a place to learn tactics, its not supposed to be a place to get gear, its supposed to show ppl who dont raid what the content looks like. I hope that never gets changed. I hope it stays dumbed down and i hope the gear quality stays low aswell. I think the gear quality should be even poorer, i think it should be on par with the previous content.

[EdisonTrent]

The only thing they did right with LFR is that it doesnt prepare u for normal modes. Its not supposed to be a place to learn tactics, its not supposed to be a place to get gear, its supposed to show ppl who dont raid what the content looks like. I hope that never gets changed. I hope it stays dumbed down and i hope the gear quality stays low aswell. I think the gear quality should be even poorer, i think it should be on par with the previous content.

I don't exactly see a downside to more casual or less dedicated raiders having the opportunity to learn content, and possibly even get into "proper" raiding, seems like it's win/win, you get another to fill out your roster, and they get to raid.

[Darkchickens]

I agree. In fact, it makes me want to cry when healing LFR madness is harder than 2 healing normal madness, that's just how bad these people are.

[hexecute]

i think it is good for ppl like my wife who don't raid but want to play with me so ill do lfr with her and its also easy fucking gear for alts.