U.S. Presidential race - Democrat Discussion

[ptwonline]

The problem is that even if they hate Obama, many won't go out to vote if they're not enthusiastic about the GOP candidate.

They'll go out to vote once the GOP spin machine makes it clear that Obama's election will be the end of America/end of the world (again) as he unleashes Satan (literally) to do his Kenyan, Muslim, over-regulating, tax-increasing, gun-restricting agenda.

Paul does consistently better against Obama than Gingrich and Santorum. Especially Gingrich does piss-poor.

Gingrich will probably fare a bit better in a general election because he's not truly a hard-right conservative like he's forced to pretend to be in the nomination, plus he's got some name recognition with people even though they forget how much of a screw-up he really was. Remember: people who don't pay as much attention will be a key voting bloc to try to win over.

Paul will probably wilt in support once people actually hear his policies and positions beyond "let the states decide", "get out of the wars", and "legalize marijuana". The details of his agenda has mostly flown under the radar so far since he's never been a frontrunner, but he won't be able to get away with that in the general election.

[Spectral]

They'll go out to vote once the GOP spin machine makes it clear that Obama's election will be the end of America/end of the world (again) as he unleashes Satan (literally) to do his Kenyan, Muslim, over-regulating, tax-increasing, gun-restricting agenda.

You forgot that he's also an atheist, liberation theology promoting, fascist, secularist, communist that hates America. Remember, Gingrich literally warned us that he's worried that this country could become atheistic and dominated by Muslims. Nothing's too crazy for these people...

[TechnoKronic]

You forgot that he's also an atheist, liberation theology promoting, fascist, secularist, communist that hates America. Remember, Gingrich literally warned us that he's worried that this country could become atheistic and dominated by Muslims. Nothing's too crazy for these people...

i want whatever Gingrich is smoking on....

[Deleted]

You forgot that he's also an atheist, liberation theology promoting, fascist, secularist, communist that hates America. Remember, Gingrich literally warned us that he's worried that this country could become atheistic and dominated by Muslims. Nothing's too crazy for these people...

A Fascist Communist eh? I love American politics.

[Grummgug]

Obamacare is hurting Obama in key swing states, uniting republican opposition and driving independents to the GOP.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...ama/53260222/1

In a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll of the nation's dozen top battleground states, a clear majority of registered voters call the bill's passage "a bad thing" and support its repeal if a Republican wins the White House in November. Two years after he signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act— and as the Supreme Court prepares to hear arguments about its constitutionality next month — the president has failed to convince most Americans that it was the right thing to do.

Democrats used the "nuclear option" back in October 2011, in which they broke longstanding congressional rules by breaking a GOP filibuster to push thru legislation via simple majority.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics...ion-in-senate/

Now that we've "crossed the Rubicon" when it comes to using the nuclear option in US politics, expect a President Romney + and GOP congress to use the nuclear option to overcome any democrat opposition and repeal Obamacare, particularly since the American people want it repealed.

[Lenonis]

Second, voter memories are so short that a few months from now when the GOP nominee goes and takes a more populaist tone, people will forget all this ultra-right-wing nonsense they have been saying up to now. Also, a lot of people have not been paying any attention to it and so won't have heard all this already.

Although I agree with the statement that voters have short memories you have to realize the candidates are all on tape saying rather hard right stance statements. If they backtrack from them and reverse their stance all the Obama campaign has to do is list the things previously stated and make the other candidate look like he doesn't have a solid stance on anything.

Romney already has trouble with the "flip-flopper" label...that would be easy to attack and drive voters away from him.

And as for the GOP painting Obama as a "insert goofy rhetoric here" the problem is that they've been doing that for years now and the public is pretty much deaf to it now. They have nothing new, which is a serious issue. I can almost guarantee you the GOP is praying for something to go wrong...either gas prices to spike up, the economy to collapse (again) or some foreign misstep...Iran is a good possibility for that sort of thing.

It's kind of a shame that politics has been reduced to hoping the country goes to hell so you can get your person in. Not exactly looking out for the good of the people there.

[ptwonline]

Although I agree with the statement that voters have short memories you have to realize the candidates are all on tape saying rather hard left stance statements. If they backtrack from them and reverse their stance all the Obama campaign has to do is list the things previously stated and make the other candidate look like he doesn't have a solid stance on anything.

Romney already has trouble with the "flip-flopper" label...that would be easy to attack and drive voters away from him.

And as for the GOP painting Obama as a "insert goofy rhetoric here" the problem is that they've been doing that for years now and the public is pretty much deaf to it now. They have nothing new, which is a serious issue. I can almost guarantee you the GOP is praying for something to go wrong...either gas prices to spike up, the economy to collapse (again) or some foreign misstep...Iran is a good possibility for that sort of thing.

It's kind of a shame that politics has been reduced to hoping the country goes to hell so you can get your person in. Not exactly looking out for the good of the people there.

I don't think people are deaf to it. A lot of people actually believe it. Or even if they don't believe any specific allegation there is still a sense of doubt that has been created. I mean, they may not actually believe he is Kenyan. Or Muslim. But the seed has been planted that he's "different", or "Unamerican" and so it's easy to generate irrational fear.

Facts don't really seem to matter much. It's about how people feel, and that's easy to manipulate even with lies. For example, a lot of people rail about Obamacare and I bet they can't name many things--and perhaps not a single thing--of what it specifically does to either help or hurt. Instead all they know is what the lies they were told--that it will take decisions out of their and their doctors' hands. That it kills jobs. That it encourages people to be reckless/unsafe with their health because they know they will get covered. etc.

[Sunseeker]

Now that we've "crossed the Rubicon" when it comes to using the nuclear option in US politics, expect a President Romney + and GOP congress to use the nuclear option to overcome any democrat opposition and repeal Obamacare, particularly since the American people want it repealed.

Ya know, 'cause it's not like Romney didn't come up with the same damn idea himself and try to pass it in his own state.

Obama's not gonna lose over healthcare, that pulls in WAY too much of the poor and minority vote.

[Lenonis]

I don't think people are deaf to it. A lot of people actually believe it. Or even if they don't believe any specific allegation there is still a sense of doubt that has been created. I mean, they may not actually believe he is Kenyan. Or Muslim. But the seed has been planted that he's "different", or "Unamerican" and so it's easy to generate irrational fear.

Facts don't really seem to matter much. It's about how people feel, and that's easy to manipulate even with lies. For example, a lot of people rail about Obamacare and I bet they can't name many things--and perhaps not a single thing--of what it specifically does to either help or hurt. Instead all they know is what the lies they were told--that it will take decisions out of their and their doctors' hands. That it kills jobs. That it encourages people to be reckless/unsafe with their health because they know they will get covered. etc.

I'm not disagreeing with your point, but the timing. All that fearmongering has already been done and the people who think Obama is the antichrist are already scared into voting against him -- and the poll still favor him. So the question is what will the GOP come up with to get the last 1-10% (depending on what poll) of the vote needed to win?

[Dacien]

Fresh doubts about Obama's birth certificate coming out of an Arizona investigation. Could be interesting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...-is-a-forgery/

[Wells]

Fresh doubts about Obama's birth certificate coming out of an Arizona investigation. Could be interesting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...-is-a-forgery/

Sheriff Joe Arpaio suggests Obama's birth certificate is a forgery

Sheriff Joe Arpaio suggests

Joe Arpaio

Nothing to see here folks move along.

[Willeonge]

Nothing to see here folks move along.

Revenge of the Birthers. God I hate these people.

[Lenonis]

Fresh doubts about Obama's birth certificate coming out of an Arizona investigation. Could be interesting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...-is-a-forgery/

From the article:

The publicity-hungry Arpaio, a strong opponent of illegal immigration who calls himself "America's Toughest Sherriff,"

The 79-year-old Arpaio, who has been accused by the Justice Department of racial profiling and who is being probed by a federal grand jury over potential abuse of power

Arpaio's biography on the Maricopa County sheriff's website notes that he oversees chain gangs, "started the nation's largest Tent City for convicted inmates," "banned smoking, coffee, movies, pornographic magazines, and unrestricted TV in all jails, "makes all inmates wear pink underwear, posts mug shots of all those arrested in the county and has reduced crime using "hard-hitting enforcement methods."

The Justice Department said in December that Arpaio has engaged in "a pattern or practice of misconduct that violates the Constitution and federal law," and a federal grand jury is investigating his office for abuse of power over its anti-public corruption investigations. Arpaio has also been criticized for allegedly inadequately investigating hundreds of sex crimes cases.

I don't see this going anywhere at all.

[Wells]

Arpaio belongs in a prison cell.

[Dacien]

Wouldn't that be the nuttiest thing ever if Obama's birth certificate really was fake? I'm not so foolish as to make such an outlandish claim, but that'd definitely be the story of the decade.

[Willeonge]

Wouldn't that be the nuttiest thing ever if Obama's birth certificate really was fake? I'm not so foolish as to make such an outlandish claim, but that'd definitely be the story of the decade.

Just imagine if he was an atheist AND a muslim. At the same time. Crazy stuff!

[Wells]

Wouldn't that be the nuttiest thing ever if Obama's birth certificate really was fake? I'm not so foolish as to make such an outlandish claim, but that'd definitely be the story of the decade.

Would be a pretty bitching story if he turned out to be a muslim lizardman from mars too.

[emulsion]

Would be a pretty bitching story if he turned out to be a muslim lizardman from mars too.

Lizardperson*

[Dukami]

Fresh doubts about Obama's birth certificate coming out of an Arizona investigation. Could be interesting.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...-is-a-forgery/

Interesting? Only if you live in backwardsville and believe that up is down and left is right.

---------- Post added 2012-03-01 at 07:52 PM ----------

Now that we've "crossed the Rubicon" when it comes to using the nuclear option in US politics, expect a President Romney + and GOP congress to use the nuclear option to overcome any democrat opposition and repeal Obamacare, particularly since the American people want it repealed.

Reconciliation was used to pass the Affordable Health Care Act, and it will not be an option to repeal it. In order for a bill to qualify for Reconciliation it must be demonstrated that it will save money, and since any attempt to demonstrate that the repeal of the AHCA will not pass this muster, it cannot be used.

So, unless there is some other trick, it's going to require 60 votes in the Senate. Good luck on that.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't that be the nuttiest thing ever if Obama's birth certificate really was fake? I'm not so foolish as to make such an outlandish claim, but that'd definitely be the story of the decade.

It's an out-dated system anyway. The whole point of the 'Must be born in America' clause was to prevent foreign aristocrats coming over from abroad in America's early days and bribing everyone into voting for them. I would find it absurd that someone who was born in another country but has lived in America for almost all of their life can't run for President, but someone who was born in America, lived most their life abroad and returned to live in America for the short time required for running for President can run for it, to simply be perturbed.

*Shrug*