So we agree then?
"Understanding everything about the world" is pretty much what religious people claim to do. They see a hole in science and jump to conclusions based on dogmatic bias. "We don't understand this yet, so I'll jump to a conclusion based on my own personal bias on the subject." It's the same with people who claim with absolute certainty that God created the Big Bang. We don't yet know for sure what the cause of the Big Bang was, so many religious people immediately jump to the conclusion that God did it.
I never claimed there not to be an afterlife, I simply said that I don't -think- there is one. What I said was that some people seem to be unable to grasp the possibility that there may not be one, and try to argue with atheists while using the viewpoint that even they believe in an afterlife of sorts, only much duller than spiritual / religious afterlives. (Jaysus, that was a long sentence).
None of this was directed specifically at you, by the way. I don't want to offend anyone.
I dont know if it actually were a ghost... But when i was small and tried to sleep i saw this huge black shadow on my wall. It couldnt have been a shadow from outside since i was living on the 10:th floor(tall building) and there is nothing outside that could make shadows. I checked if it was my own.. but it stretched from my bedside all the way upto the cieling and it was moving constantly...
Also it was pitch black... all other tones in my room(since it was dark) was darker shades of grey, my own was a very dark grey but nothing was as dark as the shadow i saw...
I had a bedlight and lighten it up and it was gone... turned it off and it slowly started to fade into the wall again. I decided to sleep with my bedlight on...
However it was comming back on the wall even with the bedlight on o_o''...
That night i decided i rush to my parents and sleep over there...
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I don't really believe in souls or spirits and therefore ghosts but I do think the energies that naturally surround us can effect our brains and perceptions. Making your brain interpret something that it doesn't understand by drawing conclusions from things you know. For example the UFO abduction thing, In other countries people have the same thing but with demons instead because they do not know the concept of Aliens. The same goes for ghosts.
Ghosts doesn't exist.
Eh, if you believe in ghosts you are not a "fairly skeptical person". As for the your stories, even if true, I fail to see how you jump to "it was a ghost". A loud noise in the middle of the night? About a million possible causes that have nothing to do with "ghosts". TV turning on? Again, can sound spooky if you don't understand electronics -- I'm not at all surprised that an electronic device might turn on seemingly by itself.
How can you see something that dosen't exists?
The world is only build up around what you can register with your sense.
Sight.
Hearing.
Smell.
Taste.
Touch.
And ofc that so called sixth sense, sensing, thought i have my doubts about that one.
So everthing you can't see, hear, smell, taste or touch, dosen't exist. SIMPLE!!!!
So much arrogant people on this thread. mostly reason i dont hang out here and talking about ghost is because most of the comunity are hurr durr do no exist -.-
I like the subject of Paranormal and mythology and aliens. yes am a dude, deal with it!
Kenjinitari, we have more then just 5 senses, its been proven by fact link from cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_19296...dergarten.html
Sure i cannot prove they exist, and schientist have come with sugjestion about particle from either space reflect ghost.
My Aunt and Uncle was ones at a new apartment they just bought, when they were going to sleep there for the first time, my uncle woke up one night and see`s a man standing besides their bed. Uncle rises up from the bed and got into fighting position while my aunt screamed. however the Man simply vanish from thin air. later that night they both talked to eachother about what they saw, they both said the same, a man standing by the bed. they spoke to the previous owners and found out that there was a decreased man that used to live there.
but i gotta agree with the sceptics about 1 thing. 90% of all UFO and Ghost videos of the Internet are bullshit. same with the picture, some have dust particle or raindrop at the photo. there are only few clips ive seen i think are amazing
this is one that i think are nice. 0.16 at Disney
they dont exist. they defy many laws of physics and open up more extraneous problems by existing rather than not existing
furthermore there is absolutely zero evidence outside of anecdotal evidence that suggests ghosts exist.
the only hurr durr is coming from people who have to believe in their possibility.
I've woken up many times absolutely sure I saw a person next to my bed. I just don't see why you'd think it was "ghosts". It just a person waking up from deep sleep in the middle of the night with their brain playing tricks on them. And just about every house has had a deceased person living there.
Again, you only see "ghosts" because you want to see them. I only see funny effect that could be caused by dozens of different things much more plausible than "a dead person walking around as a misty shape".this is one that i think are nice. 0.16 at Disney
Uncertain, I do not believe it was a ghost but another, "paranormal" being.
My main experience has been with missing objects having a miraculous reappearance in an emergency (an insulin kit (with sugar pills) left 100 miles away suddenly reappearing in your lap when a diabetic's blood sugar is at 20 for instance (about to go into a coma). Twice in life or death scenarios there has been results that were just unexplainable.
Last edited by DraconusIX; 2012-02-29 at 04:36 PM.
Until we know what is being passed in those messages, we have no idea whether or not we can measure dolphin communication.
There are no "ifs", "buts" or "maybes". We can NOT measure their communication, all we can say is that the noise is there. Until we quantify it (which we can't), we're going off guesswork. If that's what passes for science these days, I worry for the future.
What I find amusing is your dismissal of an entire post of considerations being boiled back down to your singular point that's already been disproven; probably because accepting that you are endorsing double-standards is devastating to the card tower masquerading as your argument. What's even more amusing is the horrendous grasp of logic you must possess to have arrived at the conclusion that I'm somehow arguing our instruments are actually picking up ghosts.
Here is why you believe what you do, and why you think it's correct:
Science explains everything that exists.
Science doesn't explain ghosts.
Therefore, ghosts don't exist.
At first pass, that looks great - perfectly logical. Except for the fact that both premises have to be accurate before the conclusion can be considered necessarily correct and, in this case, they're not. Science does not explain everything that exists, meaning the conclusion is false straight off the bat.
Now you can snide and sneer, or "find amusement" in whatever you like - I honestly don't mind. But what you clearly can't do is shift out of your little box of duality and accept things that are logically self-evident. For you, every single post you've made, boils down to this:
Either you can scientifically prove something, or it doesn't exist.
Any erudite person knows that there is very little difference in your position to that of a Christian fundamentalist. You "believe" something to be true (despite overwhelming volumes of evidence to the contrary) so anything that doesn't conform can't be right.
At a guess, you're not far out of college. Once you've gotten involved in paranormal research of any kind, you'll find that your basis of "real" and "impossible" changes quite remarkably.
Absolutely 100% correct. Attributing anything to something you cannot prove is bad practice. Yet, it's funny how so-called scientists are quite happy to attribute mundane explanations to phenomena they cannot find mundane evidence for.
How odd.
Right... So we don't know what they're saying, but we know they're speaking?
Good luck getting that through any logical scrutiny.
The fact you're still sticking to ugly terms like "speaking" means you really don't get the point at all.
One of my group is an engineer (Howard Wolowitz for the win). And telling me I'm ideologically wrong, when you're arguing that we've somehow built things we can't actually conceive, is almost funny.
Almost funny, because it's actually a bit tragic.
I do not recall saying that ghosts exist. Can you please quote where I did so, Mr. Open-mindedness?
Your definition contradicts itself; might you like to give it another go?
Nice try - the cocunut is still firmly on the stand, and I didn't even have to nail it down.
I'd recommend reading the source material again. Actually, their "reports" were remarkably vivid considering their age, upbringing and environment.
For my money, it was a convoluted attempt by their father to reinvigorate a fading congregation. My only disagreement with you lies in your dismissal of phenomena without a full grasp of what occurred (which I don't have either, incidentally).
---------- Post added 2012-02-29 at 05:40 PM ----------
This is a very important point. Hypnopompic states are a psychological phenomena, often interpreted as paranormal, and manifest as little more than hallucinations. The opposite side, hypnogogic, is just before you nod off and can preempt things like lucid dreaming, where your imagination runs wild as during normal dreaming but you remain conscious throughout.
These are not paranormal, but are very interesting avenues of research.
Much of what people "see" is determined by their genetic hard-wiring, as well as what the brain tries to create an image from. This is a horrid description, but what basically happens is similar to a web browser that finds a bad link; it resolves the information to a good link and puts up the page you were (hopefully) looking for. The brain sees something that it can't identify from past experience, so tries to "resolve" what you're seeing with a visual image that you can personally relate to. Very often, this is why shadows appear to be dark figures - it's essentially the brain plugging gaps.
what the hell are you talking about. what phenomena was so out of the ordinary that very realistic explanations couldn't even be warranted? you seem to not grasp how frequent our brain makes up patterns into shapes or how easily sun spots hit shitty camera lenses and just how extremely implausible the conception of a ghost actually is to be able to say that "well that weird little spot on the video must have been a ghost"
i mean shit dude, I really could make a simple movie like that in photoshop. It's not difficult. there's a reason why every bit of 'evidence' has been nothing more than 'footage' from shitty cameras. because shitty cameras are faulty, because rigging a film is easy, and because there IS NO SUCH THING AS GHOSTS.
I don't know what a russian person is saying but I am certain they are speaking. your move sherlock.
you are wrong. we build machines that can perceive X RAYS GAMMA RAYS, INFRARED, ULTRA VIOLET, RADIO WAVES, NUTRINOS, ELECTRONS, PROTONS, NEUTRONS, GLUONS and just about every other thing imaginable. none of these things are even detectable by humans. its tragic that you're an engineer and you don't know that.
your argument that ghosts have potential works well enough. they dont. come up with compelling evidence and i'll retract my statement.
where's the contradiction magilla gorilla. i'm dying to know. actually take the time to read and process the words too.
well the cheese and apple dun did get the worm gosh darn it hyuck!
seriously dude, i dont know what point that mindless dribble was supposed to make but pick up a fucking physics book. explain how something can consist of no detectable matter but can still be seen and heard and somehow move intangibly through objects and defy the laws of gravity whilst still complying with them.
I say it is a matter of definition. What if we define word "ghost" mean just a human shaped halucination that people often see in same general area? Notice how I didn't say anything that sceptics couldn't agree (I think).there IS NO SUCH THING AS GHOSTS.
Why can't this discussion be objectively about something like that. I'm often sceptic about lot of things, but I did see something. Lets say it was a generally human shaped halucination then. I didn't hear any noises or anything, but those are also attributed to "ghosts" often so just term "halucination" isnt enough.
When talking about ghosts people immediately have their own ideas about it. I do not believe its a dead person or anything. But why do they apear in same areas and people tend to see/hear same things. Not to mention some weirder things that HAVE been recored on video (not talking about light spots or anything...thats dust or bugs). What is it for real? People are bashing it down immediately a discussion is started about it so it never gets anywhere.
Last edited by Morae; 2012-02-29 at 05:53 PM.
I don't think all of the people here arguing against ghosts believe they understand EVERYTHING about the world. However due to current lack of any properly documented events of ghosts, it seems currently more likely that they do not exist, rather than exist.
I get tired of people thinking that every time they experience something they do not understand, it's something spiritual or ghostly. See where I'm going with it? As a scientist, I do not believe I know or understand everything, I just have never experienced ghosts, nor seen properly documented events of them, thus I do not believe. If you came to me and asked; Would you believe in creatures who aren't like us in any way, that could perhaps act like ghosts, exists on other planets in the universe, I'd be more with you. But currently on Earth, I just don't see any reason to believe them existing here.
no, all instances of "ghost" activity have been possible to prove wrong. my GF believes in them but i definitely don't.
there is other reasons why it accurate, many, and im not gonna discuss them all now.
one is hallucination, from different reasons. like when your very sick, or VERY tired, or also wishful thinking can course hallucination
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