Dev Watercooler - Mists of Pandaria Looting Explained

[Azrile]

Way it sounds to me.
I'm sure folks will argue the probability of either...but...I wouldn't think the same dagger would drop every single week from MoD...yet it seems to.

I am going to make a guess here. Suppose the devs have it in mind that on average, 4 people should win loot per boss. This means that 25 people will make a hidden roll, and anyone who beat 83 will win. On average, about 4 people will win.

Ok...now suppose the statistics gods go crazy on that boss

1. If NOBODY beats 83, my guess is that Blizzard will have a minimum... maybe 2 items. So the two highest rolls.. say 78 and 80 will win an item.

2. They will also probably have a max.. say 7. So that if 9 people beat 83.. The two lowest rolls will not get an item even though they were above 83

The thing is, NOBODY can see the actual rolls, so you won´t know if this happened to you. in #2, the two people who beat 83 but didn´t get an item would have no way to tell that they beat 83..

I am fairly certain Blizzard will not allow a situation where nobody gets loot, nor one where half the raid gets loot. Keep in mind, that 83, 2 and 7 used above were just examples.. they might change the min-max on a per boss basis. We won´t know because we don´t see the rolls. If we start seeing fairly regular instances of where 7 people get loot, but never any where 8 people get loot, then we know what I said is true.

[Speedlance]

Are people really this stupid that blizzard had to make a big thread to explain the lootrules in LFR mist again? cmon people.

[Nelrock]

Except that they alread mentioned something about never letting the entire raid leave with 0 drops. Plus, you'll always get gold. Ppl need to forget what is happening with others around him. If you don't get a drop, it's like you're a hunter and the boss dropped a paladin and dk tier token + 2 spellcaster cloth.

But the same way it will be really hard to get a full 25 item drop from a single boss, it will be equaly hard to get a 0 item.

I only heard gold mentioned in relation to using a Pandaren token for a "bonus roll". Unless you're talking about the base gold the boss has on them.
That's why I mentioned RNG. Many things in WoW should have a low probability...yet seem to happen a lot.

[Azrile]

I don't know why they can't just use the same system as the holiday events. Item drops, system checks your inventory including bags and bank, if you have the item you can't roll. Simple. In the case of tier pieces it can do a 1/2/3 check and even assign priority. If you have zero, you get it. If you have 1 set piece of that type you lose 20 pts on your roll, 2 set pieces of that type you lose 50 pts, 3 set pieces of that type you can't roll. Class specific.

They specifically said this change was NOT to make loot more efficient for players to get. They like the rate at which players gear up. This change was added to remove some of the loot drama (and semi-exploits) that occur in LFR.

[VanishO2]

Well that will all depend on what they set the % chance of loot to. But yes, otherwise you are correct!

Even with a lower %, the fact that you can get gear from other places like crafting, pvp, reputation, heroics, Normal/Heroic raid + LFR, etc. it will increase the pace that you get gear by a lot comparing to today's pace.

---------- Post added 2012-03-27 at 06:18 PM ----------

Well this system won't be active for Heroics - so that's not a giant concern. I doubt any Raid Finder boss will have a mount attached.

He is talking about World Bosses. Their loot will be the LFR system and Blizzard said they'll have mounts.

[Squeezus]

So they fix one problem by letting it be same, but making making an auto-roll instead of letting ppl roll need, if they already have it anyhow. That's just lol.

Your lack of understanding is "lol"

[Nelrock]

I am going to make a guess here. Suppose the devs have it in mind that on average, 4 people should win loot per boss. This means that 25 people will make a hidden roll, and anyone who beat 83 will win. On average, about 4 people will win.

Ok...now suppose the statistics gods go crazy on that boss

1. If NOBODY beats 83, my guess is that Blizzard will have a minimum... maybe 2 items. So the two highest rolls.. say 78 and 80 will win an item.

2. They will also probably have a max.. say 7. So that if 9 people beat 83.. The two lowest rolls will not get an item even though they were above 83

The thing is, NOBODY can see the actual rolls, so you won´t know if this happened to you. in #2, the two people who beat 83 but didn´t get an item would have no way to tell that they beat 83..

I am fairly certain Blizzard will not allow a situation where nobody gets loot, nor one where half the raid gets loot. Keep in mind, that 83, 2 and 7 used above were just examples.. they might change the min-max on a per boss basis. We won´t know because we don´t see the rolls. If we start seeing fairly regular instances of where 7 people get loot, but never any where 8 people get loot, then we know what I said is true.

The problem with that though is...it contradicts what they said. If nobody wins an internal...self loot roll...and the determining factor is comparing your self loot roll against others...for, lets say 4 loot spots...well then you are in fact competing against others.
If they set it in the 70-75 range...I realize it's unlikely all 25 people will roll under that. I also have been playing WoW since it came out and know the games RNG does a lot of weird shit.

[Solidusbr]

I'm really tired of this LFR loot crap. All those people want is free loot, so, why don't give them a bag with a piece of loot and valor points in the end of the run? (like low lvl dungeons)

[VanishO2]

In my opinion the valor changes are bad for 2 reasons:

1) it's another attempt to force more and more casual/solo players into raiding by providing fewer opportunities to earn gear outside of the raid environment - GC says so much in the article - and the fact there will be some epics from the Elders faction available doesn't minimize the issue because those will only be useful in the 1st tier of MoP (they have never upgraded the fraction loot during the course of an expansion).

2) the fact that valor points will allow you to upgrade your gear by up to 8 ilvls (see article) means, quite contrary to their brief flirtation with item squishing, that the difference in the ilvls of the tiers will have to be that much greater to compensate. So not only are they not squishing they are actually increasing the inflation rate of gear stats...just amazing that could do such a 180 degree turn on this subject and make the situation worse and the ultimate item squish they will have to do seem that much worse by comparison.

But they gave you new factions with new higher ilvl gear. Some ppl mentioned things about the factions being always usefull for the entire xpac, by proving new stuff each tier.

And yes, the ilvl will be a mess... they can't understand that, even when they understand the problem rising more and more... actually, they don't care probably. Looks like they don't expact WoW to hold long enough (titan?) for it to be a real problem (and by real problem, I mean players complaing A LOT, players leaving and etc.)

[Azrile]

So they fix one problem by letting it be same, but making making an auto-roll instead of letting ppl roll need, if they already have it anyhow. That's just lol.

But now that other person making a roll does not affect your roll. Is it really so hard to understand??

Old system

Hunter with ilvl 800 gloves rolls ´need´ on 372 gloves
You roll need on 372 gloves.
Hunter rolls 99, you roll 98... he gets gloves, you get nothing. You cry because he doesn´t really need the item and he ´took´your item.

New system

Hunter with ilvl 800 gloves rolls
You roll
Hunter rolls 99, you roll 98... he gets gloves, you get gloves.

Stupid people should not ´lol ´ at people who are obviously smarter. Blizzard is doing EXACTLY what their intentions were.. they are removing loot drama. This system is NOT to make drops more efficient to get.. Do people know how to read?? they said that like 5 times.

[Deleted]

I like the new system I guess. Either if you are the only Paladin (insert class here) or the raid has 10 Paladins, your chance to loot is the same. Right now, I always count the Conqueror tier users in a LFR raid, as soon as I join. More than 9 people means I leave. Apparently, it won't matter with this new system. If this gets further implemented in more raid styles, there would be no more "class runs" for Bh and the like, since the loot chance will always be the same. No more warlock searching for Bh. 25 Druids gogogo

[theturn]

So does that mean its possible for everyone or no one to win on each boss? If that's not the case then yes other players are indirectly instead of directly effecting your loot chances. Add that to the valor point changes people like me who never win shit will be stuck in questing greens for a very long time.

[Crashdummy]

How and why do people find this a good system?!? It's like the ultimate stupidity. You might win the same item four weeks in a row, while not getting the item you need (EVEN IF IT DROPS). There HAS and NEEDS to be some sort of "This person already got this item, so if he wins the roll he gets something else class/spec appropraite - if nothing is available this person gets the ability to pass to the next highest roller or take the piece of loot for offspec/sell/de".

Maybe because the people that like this system understood it and you didnt?

The probability that you roll 4 times a high roll and win always the same items for your spec is much less than the probability of your item never dropping from the whole pool of loot from the boss in the first place, which is what happens now, especially in 10 mans.

[Alhoon]

Why would the system wont give you the item because you alread had a higher ilvl? You don't want it because you have better, don't run LFR.

LFR is not only one boss, one item. Maybe I want the ring from boss X but got the neck that I don't need from boss Y. Also maybe, in the same run, there's someone that gets loot right to the boss but doesn't need the item he gets while I get the item I don't need but he does. All this new system does is that a lot of people will get stuff that they won't need, which means the whole gearing process through LFR is going to be more tedious.

Also, speaking of myself, I consistently run LFR with my hard mode geared main. Sometimes I do it to test some new spec, rotation or other thing, sometimes I just do it because I find it fun. I certainly don't need any loot and will automatically pass on everything. With this new system, I won't be allowed to do that, and that pisses me off.

What? So the other player won't be sad that you got 1 item while he didn't? Like when you get sad running brewfest boss and see the guy next to you opening HIS PERSONAL satchel and looting the ram or the kodo and you just looting justice points and get sad?

It's exactly like the world event satchels, it does not have a single impact on the other players chances.

These two cases are entirely different. If I pass on loot, you have 24 people to roll against. If there's 4 others like me, running on high geared characters, testing stuff and having fun, you have 20 people who roll against you. With the new system, you always have 25 people rolling against you. This certainly does affect your chances of getting the item.

The scenario you presented is entirely different, since someone getting an item from their personal satchel indeed has no impact on my chances of getting the item.

[VanishO2]

I just hope they find a way to incorporate the need for OS item rolls, or I will be attending LFR in my OS without any gear to be useful in that spec.

And will probably be kicked Ppl in LFR are usually not nice... they won't care about your problem with OS gear and skipping all the other ways to get your OS gear before joining LFR.

[Bloodlover]

While reading the newest Dev watercooler about the new MoP loot system, I notcied a major flaw in the system. Based on what Ghostcrawler said, the game would be handing out loot to players, even if they didn't want or need it. Let me quote two specific points fron the Dev Watercooler post.:

Notice that you aren't rolling Need or Greed. You don't have an option to Pass. The game just says "Take this.

"What? So to put this in current content terms: If I have legendary daggers, and I happened to win the "background roll" after killing a boss, I could potentially be awarded the downgrade dagger off the boss, even when there are alts and others who need this gear more?Also:

You can't trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don't want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.

This one just flat out confuses me. I'm not sure where this social pressure is coming from, i've certainly never experienced it in any of my LFR runs. Going back to my previous example of the daggers, why not allow me to give those daggers to another rogue who actually wanted them for an upgrade?This system would be a disaster if the expansion launched with it as-is.

[VanishO2]

I only heard gold mentioned in relation to using a Pandaren token for a "bonus roll". Unless you're talking about the base gold the boss has on them.
That's why I mentioned RNG. Many things in WoW should have a low probability...yet seem to happen a lot.

Don't need to heard, just read the news post

"If you have one or more Charms of Good Fortune, then whenever you kill a raid boss (in Raid Finder, normal or heroic) then a new UI window will pop up asking if you want to spend your Charm on a bonus roll. If you click yes, then you'll instantly get another shot at that boss's loot table! You will always win something from the bonus roll, such as a pile of gold, gems, or flasks. However, you also have a small (but not miniscule) chance of receiving a piece of epic loot."

[Chickat]

I like these changes, but i hate the fact that if Tim wins a sword one week the next 20 weeks he can win the sword again and again. If you already have the item in you're bags or equipped then you should have to pass.

[prankstar]

the valor idea sounds ok but knowing blizzard they will mess it up and make it so after a few weeks we have nothing to use valor on

[martinboy]

1 major downside. Say a 3rd of the raid doesn't need loot off a boss, it selects people in that third, they get loot. Everyone else is screwed. Where as in our way now, if you don't need gear and you are a good person, you can pass and not screw other people out of loot.

"and you are a good person, you can pass and not screw other people out of loot", Man, did I laugh at that one