[MoP] Fury Discussion

[Laundry]

Keep the discussion Fury related

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Warrior (Forums / Talent Calculator)

Battle Stance - Increases rage generated from normal melee attacks by 100%.
Berserker Rage - You become Enraged, increasing the rage you generate from normal melee attacks by 50% for 6 sec.
Berserker Stance - A reckless combat stance. Generates rage from damage taken.
Block - New: Gives a chance to block enemy melee attacks.
Defensive Stance - A tanking combat stance. Decreases damage taken by 15%. Reduces the chance you will be critically hit by melee attacks by 6%. Significantly increases threat generation.
Enrage - Now works with melee abilities instead of just special abilities. Now increases the rage you generate from normal melee attacks by 50% for 6 sec, up from 25%.
Heroic Strike - An attack that instantly deals 100% weapon damage plus 0 (140% plus 0 if a one - handed weapon is equipped).

Use when you have more rage than you can spend. 30 Rage Melee range Instant 1.5 sec cooldown
Spell Reflection - Cooldown reduced to 15 sec, down from 25 sec.
Throw - Damage slightly increased.


Warrior - Talents

Enraged Regeneration - Now costs 60 Rage. Costs no Rage if used while Enraged.
Piercing Howl - Duration increased to 15 sec, up from 6 sec.

Warrior - Fury

Bloodthirst - Damage decreased to 75% weapon damage, down from 100%. The chance for Bloodthirst to be a critical strike increases the longer it has been since you have been Enraged.
Meat Cleaver - Reworked. Each use of whirlwind increases the amount of targets hit by raging blow by 1 and stacks up to 3 times.
Raging Blow - Damage reduced to 120% weapon damage, down from 150%.
Single-Minded Fury - When you dual-wield one-handed weapons, all damage is increased by 25% (was 35%), and your off-hand weapon will deal an additional 30% (was 40%) damage.
Whirlwind - Rage cost increased to 30 rage, up from 25. Cooldown removed. Now does 85% weapon damage, down from 100%.
Wild Strike - Damage reduced to 220% weapon damage, down from 270%.


Warrior - Major Glyphs

Glyph of Cleaving - Increases the number of targets your Cleave hits by 1.
Glyph of Incite - Your Devastate hits cause your next Heroic Strike or Cleave to hit for 100% more damage.
Glyph of Sweeping Strikes - Reduces the duration of Sweeping Strikes by 50%, but it hits one extra target.
Glyph of Whirlwind - Increased the radius of Whirlwind by 4 yards.


Warrior - Minor Glyphs

Glyph of the Blazing Trail - New: Your Charge leaves a trail of fire in its wake. If you're going to Charge, why not do it with some style?

[Cityfella]

The question is if Fury will become better than Arms, according to the new updates today 2012-03-29 i would say it does!

[Deleted]

Oh god this class is so gonna be RNG, just like in cataclysm. Atleast with the old flurry you could exactly know when you're getting a big chunk of rage in if you pop reckless or your crit trinket.

Not liking it at all, but hey I left the game anyways.

[cFortyfive]

The question is if Fury will become better than Arms, according to the new updates today 2012-03-29 i would say it does!

Yeah quite the analytical approach you have here.
Well anyways the current changes don't make me more excited for fury either. Even more emphasize on that odd offhand strike, inflated crit Bloodthirst I guess for enrage uptime in exchange for what sounds rather low damage. I am really interested though how you could imply that the flurry change is anywhere close to "good" as in better than before.

[Ellyidol]

The main thing I'm looking for in MoP is for Fury > Arms in damage/DPS/PvE, more than anything. It doesn't make sense, how can a spec which uses TWO of the weapons of Arms (TG) be inferior in damage? I would give arms more utility/mobility if Fury can get that damage that warriors are meant to do.

The question is if Fury will become better than Arms, according to the new updates today 2012-03-29 i would say it does!

Yeah quite the analytical approach you have here.
Well anyways the current changes don't make me more excited for fury either. Even more emphasize on that odd offhand strike, inflated crit Bloodthirst I guess for enrage uptime in exchange for what sounds rather low damage. I am really interested though how you could imply that the flurry change is anywhere close to "good" as in better than before.

Where might I happen to see these changes? Tried looking for some sort of patch notes, but couldn't find any. Info would be appreciated.

[cFortyfive]

Where might I happen to see these changes? Tried looking for some sort of patch notes, but couldn't find any. Info would be appreciated.

Right on the frontpage - I agree though information is not really presented in a decent format currently.

[ruiizu]

I think they had to add the +crit to Bloodthirst. I saw a video by Swifty that was talking about how Warriors "don't crit anymore" because of a huge tank in crit chance from losing talents that give +crit to certain skills.

[Ellyidol]

Right on the frontpage - I agree though information is not really presented in a decent format currently.

Front page, you mean home page/launcher page? Sec.

Edit:

Saw it, looks pretty good. Pretty nice that 40% additional crit in BT.

[Laundry]

Updated the post to include the new wild strike inflation and bloodthirst crit change.

So far I'm liking what they're doing, because they realize that without an item squish they have to pretty much force abilities to crit more than others, because otherwise we'd be seeing item level 800 in the first tier of the expansion.

Yeah quite the analytical approach you have here.
Well anyways the current changes don't make me more excited for fury either. Even more emphasize on that odd offhand strike, inflated crit Bloodthirst I guess for enrage uptime in exchange for what sounds rather low damage. I am really interested though how you could imply that the flurry change is anywhere close to "good" as in better than before.

I didn't mean to say it was better than the current flurry, but it's not a bad change considering how much we DO swing. I mean, consider the current enrage mechanic with fury. It's not up all the time, but enough that you can use raging blow a lot without having to berserker rage. Same applies here, except the downtime will be more because it only lasts for 3 swings. Still, with the changes to bloodthirst and to wild strike + bloodsurge, I'm not concerned about rage generation.

[Regen]

Do crits cause us to become enraged? Or does it still just have a flat chance to proc off of any hit? I'm going to main my warrior in MoP and also would love to play fury.

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 02:38 PM ----------

Yeah so it on the front page. Wasn't worded as such in the OP. Critical hits enrage you, causing 25% additional rage generation for 6 seconds ***

[Ellyidol]

Do crits cause us to become enraged? Or does it still just have a flat chance to proc off of any hit? I'm going to main my warrior in MoP and also would love to play fury.

---------- Post added 2012-03-29 at 02:38 PM ----------

Yeah so it on the front page. Wasn't worded as such in the OP. Critical hits enrage you, causing 25% additional rage generation for 6 seconds ***

This plus the new potential stat priority in the OP makes it sound very good. If crit scales well @ 90 with gear and such, BT will practically proc Enrage very often and be a huge damage skill at the same time. Finally much better rage gen for Fury.

Fingers crossed that Hit % won't be THAT much of a problem again.

[Laundry]

This plus the new potential stat priority in the OP makes it sound very good. If crit scales well @ 90 with gear and such, BT will practically proc Enrage very often and be a huge damage skill at the same time. Finally much better rage gen for Fury.

Fingers crossed that Hit % won't be THAT much of a problem again.

This is my hope too. I really want to be able to utilize mastery once im hit and expertise capped. I dislike having to stack MORE hit instead of increasing all of my damage by a flat percentage.

[Dinnerbandit]

I am really interested though how you could imply that the flurry change is anywhere close to "good" as in better than before.

Because a probability has more of a chance of happening than a conditional probability. If crit levels drop in MoP, as they did in Cataclysm, it makes sense to change flurry to proc off of a single probability.

[cFortyfive]

Because a probability has more of a chance of happening than a conditional probability. If crit levels drop in MoP, as they did in Cataclysm, it makes sense to change flurry to proc off of a single probability.

Even without the bloodthirst change this would have lasted how long ? half a tier ? ^

[Laundry]

Because a probability has more of a chance of happening than a conditional probability. If crit levels drop in MoP, as they did in Cataclysm, it makes sense to change flurry to proc off of a single probability.

This is another reason why. flat chance as opposed to a proc off of a chance. Itll be up probably just as often as it is now, or a little less. Either way, as I said earlier I'm not concerned with our ability to generate rage

[Dinnerbandit]

Even without the bloodthirst change this would have lasted how long ? half a tier ? ^

If you're asking what the crit levels after the first tier of MoP are going to be, I have no idea. I would think that it will last the whole expansion seeing as after all of Cataclysm our crit levels still aren't anywhere near where they were in WOTLK. Following that logic, our crit levels will drop again in MoP and end up well below what they were in Cataclysm. This would explain the change to flurry.

[cFortyfive]

If you're asking what the crit levels after the first tier of MoP are going to be, I have no idea. I would think that it will last the whole expansion seeing as after all of Cataclysm our crit levels still aren't anywhere near where they were in WOTLK. Following that logic, our crit levels will drop again in MoP and end up well below what they were in Cataclysm. This would explain the change to flurry.

Yeah right luckily enough Bloodthirst didn't just now receive an inflated crit rate to keep enrage working I guess.

[Laundry]

Yeah right luckily enough Bloodthirst didn't just now receive an inflated crit rate to keep enrage working I guess.

It makes more sense for enrage to work off of crit than it does for flurry. Also, enrage lasts 6 seconds, the cooldown on bloodthirst is 6 seconds. It's going to flow nicely. Not to say BT will crit every time, but I foresee 20% crit in heroic items, which coupled along with the BT buff will be a very nice addition. Finally a solution to fury rage generation issues? I believe so.

EDIT:
I want to steer the thread intoa different direction now, and it's a question I've been pondering since they made the switch between deadly calm and avatar in the tree (I think those are the 2 they switched). Now we have to choose pretty much between avatar and bloodbath. Now, I'm thinking that if bloodbath stacks per ability that you use for the next 12 seconds, it will put out on top.

My reason is the following:
Assume you hit for 100. With avatar you hit for 120. This applies to all abilities for 10 seconds.
Assume you pick up bloodbath instead. You hit for 100, but the target bleeds for an additional 30 over 6 seconds, this affect applies to all abilities and the buff lasts 12 seconds. In terms of burst, avatar is going to be better, but I believe bloodbath is going to be far superior in PvE content.

thoughts?

[Dinnerbandit]

Yeah right luckily enough Bloodthirst didn't just now receive an inflated crit rate to keep enrage working I guess.

Right, but they also increased the duration on the cooldown of Bloodthirst to 6 seconds. This means that we'll be using it roughly half as often as we do now. This would lower the chance to score a critical strike ( if Flurry were still based on crit chance) in turn lowring the up time of flurry. With these changes, its understandable why they would switch flurry to proc on a flat rate.


EDIT:

I want to steer the thread intoa different direction now, and it's a question I've been pondering since they made the switch between deadly calm and avatar in the tree (I think those are the 2 they switched). Now we have to choose pretty much between avatar and bloodbath. Now, I'm thinking that if bloodbath stacks per ability that you use for the next 12 seconds, it will put out on top.

My reason is the following:
Assume you hit for 100. With avatar you hit for 120. This applies to all abilities for 10 seconds.
Assume you pick up bloodbath instead. You hit for 100, but the target bleeds for an additional 30 over 6 seconds, this affect applies to all abilities and the buff lasts 12 seconds. In terms of burst, avatar is going to be better, but I believe bloodbath is going to be far superior in PvE content.

thoughts?

The last time I read our new talent trees, Avatar affects all attacks including auto-attacks. Blood bath affects only special attacks. Now, I haven't received a beta invite yet so I can't test anything, however being a statistics nerd and seeing as they both have the same cool down, a 2 second difference between their duration, and with the changes to weapon damage, I would bet that they come out to be about the same damage. So choosing one over the other will be based either on the fight or personal preference.

[Tzel]

The last time I read our new talent trees, Avatar affects all attacks, including auto-attacks. Blood bath affects only special attacks. Now, I haven't received a beta invite yet so I can't test anything, however being a statistics nerd and seeing as they both have the same cool down and there's only a 2 second difference between their duration, I would bet that they come out to be about the same damage. So choosing one over the other will be based either on the fight or personal preference.

It may depend (for Fury) on whether or not we have Flurry active during Avatar. If we do, the additional 20% on 25% more auto-attacks may tip the balance in its favor. If we don't have Flurry active, I see it being a wash or slightly in favor of Bloodbath.

However, Avatar's duration lines up nicely with Heroism/Bloodlust/Time Warp, whereas Bloodbath does not get any synergistic effect from it. On a dummy, I think Bloodbath will come out ahead, but in a real raid situation, I still think Avatar is the preferable choice.

There is one raid situation where this would not apply - if the boss has a +damage taken effect that cycles on a short cooldown with a short duration. The current raid situation that I can think of where Bloodbath is clearly better is Hagara: if you're not completely terrible at frost phase, you won't be able to use Avatar for every Feedback, but you can use Bloodbath for each one, and you get full use of the +damage taken effect because of Bloodbath's shorter CD and duration. In this situation, you get full synergy with Bloodbath and less than 1/2 synergy with Avatar.