1. #941
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    Neither spec have a Haste buff.

    Burning Wrath gives 10% SP.
    Grace of Air gives 5 Mastery.

    Those are your buffs.
    Yea, I know they don't have it currently, but in the link you posted Shaman are listed for haste as well. So either they haven't added it in, or they changed their minds and we won't get it at all. Was just saying that I hope we still get to have the option for haste, even though being exclusive with mastery we will most likely choose mastery over it all the time.

    True. However it does make us (even more) excellent tank healers, right now paladins are the only class who can comfortably heal tanks while also healing the raid in a high tank dmg situation, a shaman who heals the raid isn't healing the tank apart from earth shield charges and a riptide tick here and there. I can see conductivity having great potential for that reason, as I said earlier - it's like an inverted beacon.
    Yea, I guess you do have a point there....can just focus on tank and it spreads to everyone. Or chain heal>tidal waves>ghwx2 , those ghw will still be healing the raid so your raid healing never really stops. I guess its pretty good for the fights where you need to stack.

  2. #942
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Don't take the current state of the Beta as anything that's necessarily gospel. They're still adding and tweaking things; that's why we can't even level to 87 yet. Just because something is missing in the current build does not necessarily mean it's been scrapped entirely.


  3. #943
    I haven't read the whole thread and I guess people have likely mentioned it but..at least as a Resto shaman it feels like we're going to have a ridiculous amount of cooldowns.

    Healing Stream Totem - 30 sec
    Healing Tide Totem - 3 min
    Call of the Elements - 8 min
    Spiritwalker's Grace - 2 min
    Mana Tide Totem - 3 min
    Ancestral Swiftness - 1 min
    Spirit Link Totem - 3 min
    Ascendance - 3 min
    Stormlash Totem - 5 min

    Then also potentially another defensive cooldown from Tier 1 and maybe something from Tier 2 as well. Is it just me or does it not look like fun to have my screen filled with PowerAuras to keep track of all these?

  4. #944
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    I saw this post on the official forums, and I thought it was actually a pretty good idea. It was posted by Ashunera, and the basic idea is to make imbues like RB and FB easier to use without having to spend 3gcds to get one effect like a snare or taunt, as well as not having to spend a gcd every 30 sec to refresh HST:

    Having utility isn't a bad thing. Having utility that doesn't matter kind of is, and that's what FB/RB/HST are.

    Utility that matters - Leap of Faith, Dispersion, Anti-Magic Zone
    Shaman utility that matters - Healing Tide Totem, Earthgrab Totem, Ancestral Guidance, Wind Shear
    Utility that doesn't matter - Pathetic HPS from Healing Stream, a taunt that takes 3 GCDs instead of the usual zero, a second and a third single target slow when the first can have 100% uptime.

    Nobody else has the sheer volume of "weak utility" that we have. A big part of why it's "weak" is how unwieldy it is to use.

    Would this be preferable?

    -Frostbrand Weapon renamed Frostbrand, shares cooldown with Unleash Elements, deals damage and snares targets with chill effects on them by 70% for 5 sec. Also increases your run speed with Unleashed Fury.
    -Rockbiter Weapon renamed Rockbite, shares CD with Unleash, taunts the target, reducing damage you take from that target by 40% for 5 sec. if talented.
    -Healing Stream - When you summon any totem, you also summon a Healing Stream Totem (beta version). This cannot happen more than once every 30 sec.

    These would feel like useful abilities because you wouldn't need to spend an abnormal number of GCDs to get their effects. It makes them usable.
    So basically FB and RB would not be imbues anymore, instead they would be spells with only the unleash effect, and still share the same cd as ULE. You would be trading damage and double imbue effects (for enh atleast), for the ability to snare or taunt. They would still get the Unleash Fury talent buffs as well. I think this is actually a great idea, since neither FB or RB are really used much at all anymore and if they do get used it's only for the unleash effect which costs them 3 gcds to use instead of just 1.

    The HST would be dropped whenever you use any totem, to save a gcd every 30sec. I'm not sure if this one is really necessary, but some people have been complaining that since you have to single drop totems and have more cds in general, that we use too many gcds. HST isn't exactly necessary but I guess in PVP we will end up having to drop every 30 sec, and since we drop stuff like Searing totem or grounding all the time this would save us a gcd by auto dropping when we use some other totem.

  5. #945
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    Glyph of Earth Shield. Your Earth Shield charges are no longer depleted when taking damage, but Earth Shield's duration is reduced to 45 sec.

    Is btw a Minor Glyph....so it makes "sense" now....by winning a few gcd`s

  6. #946
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuhuwuhu View Post
    Glyph of Earth Shield. Your Earth Shield charges are no longer depleted when taking damage, but Earth Shield's duration is reduced to 45 sec.

    Is btw a Minor Glyph....so it makes "sense" now....by winning a few gcd`s
    Interesting, I don't think anyone picked up on that. So now both ES and LS are minor glyphs, I wonder if WS will be next?


    Regarding Water Shield, I think they should go back to the older model that had a 7sec icd instead of 3.5sec that the current one has. And of course double the mana per orb as well to scale properly. This way you would only have to refresh it once every 20 sec instead of every 10, and it would still give the same amount of mana over longer periods. I feel like this would be a good quality of life change that won't affect balance, or require a glyph (but still make the glyph desirable for certain situations).

  7. #947
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    Or doesnt give water shield a gcd .....maybe something like they did with the holypala....form every 8sek (when possible) judgment to every 45sek to get the haste/manareg buff.....water shield with 45sek duration ore something

  8. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Protoman View Post
    I saw this post on the official forums, and I thought it was actually a pretty good idea. It was posted by Ashunera, and the basic idea is to make imbues like RB and FB easier to use without having to spend 3gcds to get one effect like a snare or taunt, as well as not having to spend a gcd every 30 sec to refresh HST:
    Can agree with the imbue unleashing part, spending 3 GCD's for a taunt is stupid and makes it worthless in situations where it could otherwise be used, but HST is no more utility than earth shield, or lightwell for that matter, it's just a different sort of heal. Also not exactly sure I agree with the original posters definition of utility.

  9. #949
    Inscription: Glyph of Astral Recall now reduces the cast time of Astral Recall by 40% instead of reducing its cooldown.
    Aww. If we could only use it in combat now.

  10. #950
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuhuwuhu View Post
    Or doesnt give water shield a gcd .....maybe something like they did with the holypala....form every 8sek (when possible) judgment to every 45sek to get the haste/manareg buff.....water shield with 45sek duration ore something
    Lol, I suggested that originally and received alot of criticism. I actually used the Pally's as an example of an easier to manage regen mechanic, they get 30% bonus to Spirit from Judgements for 1 min, so 80% in combat regen and only gotta use 1 gcd to manage it. Now I'm thinking it's probably easier to just push for a change in the icd so we just don't have to refresh it as often....

    ICD/ Refresh rate/ mana per orb for WS at lvl 85

    Current (4.1+) - 3.5s, 10s, 758
    Old (4.0) - 7s, 20s, 1600ish
    MoP? - 10.5, 30s, 2200ish


    After 4.1 in Cata, Blizz halved the icd and the mana gained per orb so it would still the same over a longer duration but proc more often. I think for MoP if they triple the icd and mana/orb that would be great, then we would only have to refresh once every 30 sec with constant damage, but even if we get sporadic damage we still get a nice chunk of mana back.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jsf View Post
    Can agree with the imbue unleashing part, spending 3 GCD's for a taunt is stupid and makes it worthless in situations where it could otherwise be used, but HST is no more utility than earth shield, or lightwell for that matter, it's just a different sort of heal. Also not exactly sure I agree with the original posters definition of utility.
    Yea, I think the complaints about HST are not really that important anyways. It does what it needs to for the gcd it uses, and you are not really forced to use it if you don't want, cept for Resto obviously.


    But getting rid of the RB and FB imbues and making them Unleash spells that share the same cd with ULE.....that's a brilliant idea. Shaman could now keep their normal imbue setup and not waste multiple gcds just to get a simple effect like a ranged snare or taunt. It would improve the way we play dramatically, and finally give us a chance to use those effects. Would be balanced as well since we are trading higher damage/heals for utility.

  11. #951
    Just did some testing on AG as Resto:

    Basically it does exactly as the tooltip describes - 40% of damage or healing done.
    Meaning the only benefit it gets from Mastery is the fact that you heal for more on low health targets - it doesn't double dip like I was hoping.
    I'm assuming this will be the same for Conductivity, but I'll have to test that next.


    EDIT: Same deal with Conductivity. Only the initial heal scales with Mastery, though the heal from Conductivity can Crit independently from the spell -- which is awesome.
    Last edited by Radux; 2012-04-06 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #952
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    Gogo Radux....don`t write in the forum....lvl your shaman!!!! Want to have a feedback from the 90`s talents.

    I healed my first instances....and restoshaman makes a lot of fun (all these buttons! wonderfull =)....a lot of potential for this addon to become a great healer

  13. #953
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuhuwuhu View Post
    Gogo Radux....don`t write in the forum....lvl your shaman!!!! Want to have a feedback from the 90`s talents.

    I healed my first instances....and restoshaman makes a lot of fun (all these buttons! wonderfull =)....a lot of potential for this addon to become a great healer
    Did they raise the level cap with this new patch? If they did it's prob only to 87 right? Doubt they would go all the way to 90 so quickly.



    Haven't seen too many comments on this yet....how many people are in support of this suggestion:

    -Frostbrand Weapon renamed Frostbrand, shares cooldown with Unleash Elements, deals damage and snares targets with chill effects on them by 70% for 5 sec. Also increases your run speed with Unleashed Fury.
    -Rockbiter Weapon renamed Rockbite, shares CD with Unleash, taunts the target, reducing damage you take from that target by 40% for 5 sec. if talented.


    Basically saving you from spending unnecessary gcds just to use a snare/taunt.....you would only have to spend 1 gcd instead of 3, and would still trade higher damage for utility. Would also mean you could keep your regular imbue setup all the time as well. You can check out the full post here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4516173?page=5

  14. #954
    First quick look :

    1) Healing Tide Tome scales with haste which makes it tick faster. This makes sense since Ancestral Guidance and Conductivity both scale with haste too.
    2) Chain Lightning hits for a ton of damage, I had triple crit hit for a total of 120-130k damage Oo
    3) Lava Burst does almost the same damage as it does on live but Lightning Bolt hits way harder and is very close to LvB.

  15. #955
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    First quick look :

    1) Healing Tide Tome scales with haste which makes it tick faster. This makes sense since Ancestral Guidance and Conductivity both scale with haste too.
    2) Chain Lightning hits for a ton of damage, I had triple crit hit for a total of 120-130k damage Oo
    3) Lava Burst does almost the same damage as it does on live but Lightning Bolt hits way harder and is very close to LvB.
    Unless explicitly noted somewhere, I'd avoid doing any hard numbers comparisons right now. They don't have much bearing on what the developers are working on and probably shouldn't be a major concern - new systems and how they impact existing kits are the priority, I'd say.

  16. #956
    Scarab Lord Miralynn's Avatar
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    Finally got a chance to play my ele shaman in beta today, and I am distinctly less than impressed. My damage numbers look about half what they are in live, my fire elemental was completely useless and just stood there rather than attacking anything (and yes I had flameshock ticking), and the totem changes as a whole leave a bad taste in my mouth. We're trading utility that's actually useful for a bunch of short-term cooldowns requiring 50 additional keybinds, that are mostly not even useful enough to my spec to bother interrupting my rotation to drop them, and the ones that ARE useful to my spec, other classes can do better all the way around.

    I can pretty safely say as of right now, unless something DRASTICALLY changes, my shaman(s) will be permanently shelved when this goes live.
    When asked about the role of women in video games, Samus Aran said, "..." - and then she blew up the planet. AGAIN.

  17. #957
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    @Miralynn Welcome to Shaman class!
    And as a enh - don't like it. Nerf to windfury is rubbish, I don't think Stromlash will be such a "oh, ah" burst cooldown, haste still sucks (as well as whole tier 4 - having just one desirable choice is such a fun!), healing tide has MTT animation, which is I don't even. Conductivity isn't affected by mastery. Unleash fury of windfury is pretty lame (seriously, static shock? Static shock? how they dare call it "poweful effect"? I bet it don't proc Stormlash ). The full list of crap is much more longer. If they don't care, they should have removed shaman from the game. It would give them more time to care about other classes. And yeah, I am QQing, but I am just pissed off.

    <SNIP>

    [User was infracted for this post]

    Useless QQ and meme image posting is now allowed on these forums.
    Last edited by Endus; 2012-04-06 at 11:06 PM.

  18. #958
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    Finally got a chance to play my ele shaman in beta today, and I am distinctly less than impressed. My damage numbers look about half what they are in live, my fire elemental was completely useless and just stood there rather than attacking anything (and yes I had flameshock ticking), and the totem changes as a whole leave a bad taste in my mouth. We're trading utility that's actually useful for a bunch of short-term cooldowns requiring 50 additional keybinds, that are mostly not even useful enough to my spec to bother interrupting my rotation to drop them, and the ones that ARE useful to my spec, other classes can do better all the way around.

    I can pretty safely say as of right now, unless something DRASTICALLY changes, my shaman(s) will be permanently shelved when this goes live.
    I haven't logged in since the most recent build, but I find this hard to believe.

    I leveled to 86 earlier this week, and my spells were all hitting just as hard if not harder than on Live, and FET testing showed it to clearly be more responsive. Were you testing on dummies, or were you actually playing in the new zones? Dummies don't show things properly for a host of reasons.

    I ripped through 85-86 with zero mana problems, and most mobs dropped before they'd reach me to melee. If not get one-shot because of a lucky streak of procs. 150k+ damage in 2 GCDs, easily.

    If something changed in the recent build, it's more likely that it's a glitch with the new build, not a deliberate change. But, more likely, I'm betting you were on the dummies, where behaviour isn't consistent unless you know the limitations of the dummies and exactly how the new AI on FET works.


  19. #959
    I understand it is still early beta, but I'm kinda sad that we aren't getting any "FUN" Glyphs that alter appearance and such, like every other class is getting. Just saying.

    Other than that though, I don't think Shamans are in a bad place at all atm.
    Last edited by Ezeckial; 2012-04-07 at 01:49 AM.

  20. #960
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    Finally got a chance to play my ele shaman in beta today, and I am distinctly less than impressed. My damage numbers look about half what they are in live, my fire elemental was completely useless and just stood there rather than attacking anything (and yes I had flameshock ticking), and the totem changes as a whole leave a bad taste in my mouth. We're trading utility that's actually useful for a bunch of short-term cooldowns requiring 50 additional keybinds, that are mostly not even useful enough to my spec to bother interrupting my rotation to drop them, and the ones that ARE useful to my spec, other classes can do better all the way around.

    I can pretty safely say as of right now, unless something DRASTICALLY changes, my shaman(s) will be permanently shelved when this goes live.
    Why do people keep complaining about the cooldowns? No one is forcing you to use them, or bind them. More cd's means more tools at your disposal, which you can use to handle a variety of situations and alter the outcome in your favor. It increases the skill cap, and will make good shaman better, and bad shaman worse. Complaining that we have too many cds is basically like crying about getting buffs for extra utility, heals, cc, damage, or defense.

    Our old totem system is what was annoying, not our new one with buffs as passives instead. If you aren't used to single dropping totems by now then you probably have never seriously PVP'd before. We just need a Totem UI to organize them, either a drop down menu like the old one, or IMO a 4x3 mini grid to put your top 3 totems of each element for easy access but not cluttering your action bars. Along with the UI, also a way to track the timers of your active totems.

    Both Damage and mana regen are low for a few classes. I wouldn't doubt it if you say Shaman are not doing as much. They are still in the process of adjusting things though, just recently Tanks got buffed by alot, GC said that tanks were doing 50% less then they were supposed to....my guess is they will try and get tanks to a similar level to each other, and then balance the DPS around them.

    I understand it is still early beta, but I'm kinda sad that we aren't getting any "FUN" Glyphs that alter appearance and such, like every other class is getting. Just saying.
    Yea, we haven't gotten any cool ones yet but I'm still hoping. There are alot of ways you could add some fun stuff for Shaman, different travel forms or random race totems, stuff like that.

    -----------------------



    I'm not too pleased with the Glyph system overall though, pretty disappointed actually. Especially in PVP, there is really not much choice or freedom to customize at all. As Enhance, we will have to glyph for stuff the spec already had thru talents, like imp gwolf and MW5 healing that mimics GHW.

    So we basically have one glyph slot to pick between:
    -capacitor reduction
    -feral spirits heal
    -hex
    -purgex2
    -spirit walk (not SWG, but the enh cd according to wowhead http://mop.wowhead.com/item=41524#created-by-spell )
    -sham rage
    -totemic vigor
    -wind shear


    That third slot will most likely be used up by Sham rage or Hex. This does not make for compelling choices. We are supposed to have customization and more options, but some of these glyphs are too useful to switch around, or were something our class/spec had before and now we have to sacrifice something to get it back. And we have so many interesting new choices, but still stuck using the same glyphs we have always had.

    IMO something like Imp Ghostwolf, which every Shaman spec will get for PVP, should be part of GW baseline. It's not much of a choice and considering Druids get to still dispel snares baseline, us keeping our snare immunity is not asking for much. The Enhance "healing storm" glyph which makes our MW5 heals mimic a GHW should also be baseline, atleast for self healing. Can still have a glyph that buffs MW5 healing for other players like Ret's selfless healer.

    This would free up 2 required glyph slots for Enhance. Then we would have 3 slots open to pick any combination of the 8 glyphs I listed above, all of which are very good. have uses in PVP, and would make compelling choices to pick between. I am sure that Ele and Resto would be happy to have Instant GW baseline as well so they can also pick 3 glyphs of their choosing.

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