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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    you're off on a ridiculous tangent, you misunderstand me and I can't be bothered responding individually to that wall of text. I'm not implying that all intelligent women should dress in potato sacks. a compliment has a context. I doubt either of you would be comfortable with every man in the street telling her how good looking she is.

    as I've said a million times, we can deal with sexism directed at men once we achieve something close to equality.
    That wasn't a wall of text. A wall of text is endless stream of words with no line breaks, paragraphs, etc. And what he said hit home. And from your reply to him, it doesn't seem like you have any real rebuttal to him, so you make up a fake issue saying it is a wall of text and wont reply to him. Equivalent to putting your hands over your ears yelling you can't hear what he says. I honestly don't think anyone should bother replying to you if you can't be bothered to read a well written reply because it is counter to your views, and instead say you will never reply to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellsian View Post
    I'm very disappointed in Blizzard for changing it. Someone should start new thread demanding every flirtatious NPC and line changed now.
    I'd rather see this unnecessary change reverted personally.

  2. #142
    Warchief OGXanos's Avatar
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    seriously people we need to get this reverted. If nothing else go to the beta forums and add a line about how this is an absolutely retarded and an unwarranted change. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3774?page=1#19

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDoomcookie View Post
    The way they changed it was sort of weird... They could have kept his personality in that line while... Still making it less offensive? I don't know. I'm female, and was never offended by it. I didn't really understand why that person who typed up that thread was so offended. I think it was the "You must have trouble keeping the men off of you" part or something.
    He says about the same thing to guys "You must be popular with the ladies" or something like that

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Urti View Post
    you'll no doubt just try to explain away any evidence contrary to your viewpoint.
    isn't that called 'arguing successfully' or 'being right'? you don't deserve your difficult life for being a white western man. you're a minority within your gender/age/ethnicity/class. try to have this discussion without generalising; not possible. you having a crappy life doesn't solve sexism, so leave it out.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    read up some on the male gaze.
    This is all you need to read to see that this person is not sane. Only a truly disturbed hyper zealous feminazi would or could make an issue out of BEING LOOKED AT.

    HOW DARE someone look at you "in that certain way." Fact is, most women LIKE IT. They want it and they dress and behave specifically to attract that evil "male gaze."

    You clearly hate both men and feminine women.

    You are irrational, unbalanced, and need to seek professional help.

    "Positive" discrimination is still discrimination. Martin Luther King Jr and Susan B Anthony both would be absolutely appalled at your failure to understand their messages and struggles for equality.

    This is nothing more for you than a soapbox, an opportunity to stand up and yell out your self-righteous and indignant victimization ideology.

    Your hate ruins perfectly acceptable things (like silly flirtatious cartoon characters) for everyone else.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Alewen View Post
    That wasn't a wall of text. A wall of text is endless stream of words with no line breaks, paragraphs, etc. And what he said hit home. And from your reply to him, it doesn't seem like you have any real rebuttal to him, so you make up a fake issue saying it is a wall of text and wont reply to him. Equivalent to putting your hands over your ears yelling you can't hear what he says. I honestly don't think anyone should bother replying to you if you can't be bothered to read a well written reply because it is counter to your views, and instead say you will never reply to them.
    .
    I read and understood it, he didn't read or understand everything I said. I also replied to it, it didn't require much. 'I'm not implying that all intelligent women should dress in potato sacks.' there you go.

  7. #147
    The sad thing is that to an extremist ideologue like yourself, "arguing successfully" doesn't really involve anything more than demonizing anyone who disagrees with you.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    positive discrimination I guess does resemble an idealogical eye for an eye. however, it's been proven the only effective means of pushing society towards equality. if you have an alternative I'm all ears.
    There is not a single one alternative that will work in every context. Equal legislation and implementation generally go a long way. Attitudes will follow.

    Some everyday differences will remain for a long time since men and women are currently both physically and psychologically somewhat different beings. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Ximinez View Post
    seriously people we need to get this reverted. If nothing else go to the beta forums and add a line about how this is an absolutely retarded and an unwarranted change. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...3774?page=1#19
    I posted in it. Seriously this change is ridiculous.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by thundercles View Post
    This is all you need to read to see that this person is not sane. Only a truly disturbed hyper zealous feminazi would or could make an issue out of BEING LOOKED AT..
    you obviously don't understand the concept judging by this sentence: 'Fact is, most women LIKE IT. They want it and they dress and behave specifically to attract that evil "male gaze.' I won't bother regurgitating information about a subject that has been written and thought about extensively by others more patient and erudite than me.

    of course positive discrimination is still discrimination, the clue is in the name. did you know an alternative to 'soapbox' is 'forum'? why is my opinion any less valid? you're the zealous nazi here.

    ---------- Post added 2012-04-12 at 05:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by thundercles View Post
    The sad thing is that to an extremist ideologue like yourself, "arguing successfully" doesn't really involve anything more than demonizing anyone who disagrees with you.
    I have not demonised anyone posting here, don't be so lazy and talk to me.

  11. #151
    Deleted
    Come on guys, why does it matter at all? Really?
    You're starting up threads to get Blizzard to change the text back? Really?

    Do you not think that Blizzard changed it because, upon reflection, they thought that it came off as inappropriate also when the issue was brought up?

    I mean, god knows that Blizzard thoroughly ignore most whining that happens on those forums :P And as many of you said, it was only a few people who complained.

    My personal stance on the issue? I don't give a fuck.
    Did I find it offensive? Personally, no - but IF I was that female Pandaren, would I have been? Think about it, if you, as a female Pandaren, had fought as much as the males and was instead complimented on looking 'gorgeous' instead of 'strong' like your male counterparts were, would you NOT be pissed about that?

    I can see why people complained about it and brought it up - I can't understand why most of you guys are getting your underpants in a twist over the change, when, really, for ONE line of text it affects fuck all in the game. At all.

    Jesus Christ.


    And all the feminism hate in this thread makes me laugh. Honestly. Well done.
    I wonder if you are also the type of people that say 'Racism doesn't exist anymore!'

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    you obviously don't understand the concept judging by this sentence: 'Fact is, most women LIKE IT. They want it and they dress and behave specifically to attract that evil "male gaze.' I won't bother regurgitating information about a subject that has been written and thought about extensively by others more patient and erudite than me.

    of course positive discrimination is still discrimination, the clue is in the name. did you know an alternative to 'soapbox' is 'forum'? why is my opinion any less valid? you're the zealous nazi here.
    Are you suggesting that a man checking out a woman is discrimination?! Really?

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    have a look at civilisation over the last few hundred years.
    So you don't have a source, okay
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    I read and understood it, he didn't read or understand everything I said. I also replied to it, it didn't require much. 'I'm not implying that all intelligent women should dress in potato sacks.' there you go.
    Amazing that such self-righteous people can even function. "It didn't require much" is probably one of the most inflated, superiority-complex-driven things you can say when referring to a rebuttal to someone's statement. You don't deserve the attention you're being given, and are doing nothing but mongering hate to straight men, white males, gay men, and women who are comfortable in their femininity. Honestly, don't users get reported for less than this?

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Narveid View Post
    He says about the same thing to guys "You must be popular with the ladies" or something like that
    Yep he did. Dunno if that is still in though. I haven't rolled up a male.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Keoren View Post
    There is not a single one alternative that will work in every context. Equal legislation and its implementation generally go a long way. Attitudes will follow.

    Some everyday differences will remain for a long time since men and women are currently both physically and psychologically somewhat different beings. This is not necessarily a bad thing.
    perhaps I am short-sighted but I'm just not willing to accept that legislation will ever make a genuine change. take the emancipation proclamation, or the civil rights movement in America; these brought about amazing change but also a particularly defensive attitude in white America which seems to have solidified racism on a fundamental level in their society.

  17. #157
    Herald of the Titans Urti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    isn't that called 'arguing successfully' or 'being right'?
    Not when it comes from selectively ignoring factual evidence. Then it's called a delusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    you don't deserve your difficult life for being a white western man. you're a minority within your gender/age/ethnicity/class.
    Bullshit. You can't lump me into target group you hate, and then retroactively make the boo-boo go away with an invitation to the "entitled victims" club. Everything I got today I earned in SPITE of being a white male, not because of it. That's the fact, whether it fits into your childish little worldview or not. Your average white male has a LOT more in common with me than with Gordon Gecko, despite your idea that all WASPy men are ultra-rich, evil, Banker-barons.

    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    try to have this discussion without generalising; not possible. you having a crappy life doesn't solve sexism, so leave it out.
    No, but it does involve equality issues, and THAT makes it relevant. Stop trying to marginalize a case that is 180 degrees from what you wrongfully assume is the norm.
    Last edited by Urti; 2012-04-12 at 04:19 PM.
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  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    So you don't have a source, okay
    what source is there that catalogues the changing cultural attitudes of society over a number of centuries, short of history books and anecdotal knowledge? I don't have a source for 'the sky is blue' but I can say it with confidence.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by llandrywyn View Post
    "If Ji Firepaw is a flirtatious, bordering on sexist, lecherous old panda, what benefit does it have to his story?"


    "If a character can be conveyed in the same terms, for the same overall feeling and with the same overall character traits, is it not just good and respectful practice for the designers to minimise content that might offend?"
    You see, I'd like to live in a world where little things like this weren't blown out of proportion. But I know that's a pipe dream.

    There's a female goblin quest-giver whose comments I (as a guy) found amusing, but which the person who started this whole debacle would have blown a gasket over:

    Hey there, handsome! I've had my eye on those big, beefy biceps ever since you stepped into town.
    Listen, I've got something for you to do. I hear Gar'Thok's got you headed over to Tiragarde. While you're there, think you could find some abandoned Kul Tiras knicknacks?
    Thanks sweetie!
    Should I get offended by that? I guess I should, since it's demeaning to men...

    Here's what she says to female player-characters:

    What're you looking at, ugly? I've seen you walking around Razor Hill, trying to steal MY men from me!
    Listen, I've got something for you to do. I hear Gar'Thok's got you headed over to Tiragarde. While you're there, think you could find some abandoned Kul Tiras knicknacks?
    Don't ask why, just get to it!
    Where was the uproar over that? Why does the poor pandaman get discriminated against?

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by crabmousse View Post
    perhaps I am short-sighted but I'm just not willing to accept that legislation will ever make a genuine change. take the emancipation proclamation, or the civil rights movement in America; these brought about amazing change but also a particularly defensive attitude in white America which seems to have solidified racism on a fundamental level in their society.
    But clearly you don't care about the non-white racism in our country? Oh that's right, that doesn't exist does it...

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