History will repeat itself - Garrosh, Huojin and their future!

[Envojus]

Hello there! Please note that this idea is CRAZY, but crazy is good, no? Anyway, here is my idea...

Let's start off with a quote from the Press Tour:

"Huojin is a philosophy among the pandaren that inaction is the greatest injustice, and that there is no shame in defending one's homes and loved ones regardless of cost. Those pandaren who follow the path of Huojin are allies of the Horde, and are represented by Ji Firepaw, a staunch adherent of this philosophy"

Now, everything is fine, it suits the Horde and all. HOWEVER, in the past this way of thinking has lead people to their doom. The best example? None other than Arthas!

Firstly, The culling of Stratholme resembles the incident with the ship in the wandering isle greatly. Similary to Aysa, Jaina was hesitant to act, suggesting Arthas (Just like Ji) that they should plan everything out. Arthas, on the other hand, knew that if they wait, the plague will spread across Azeroth and most likely kill everyone (Just like Shen-zin Su). This has separated Jaina and Arthas, with Arthas taking action immediately and succeeding in stopping the plague from spreading.

Secondly, Arthas, Muradin and Frostmourne. Once again, Arthas acted as Ji and Muradin acted as Aysa. Here is a quote from Arthas, just before he aquired Frostmourne :

"Now, I call out to the Spirits of the place. Whatever you be, good or ill or neither or both. I can feel you here. I know you are listening. I'm ready. I understand. And I tell you know - I will give anything, or pay any price, if only you will help me save my people."

I don't know about you guys, but this sounds just like something Ji or any Huojin follower would.

Metzen has constantly reminded us that the expansion is all about the pandaren teaching balance. With Ji joining the horde and Aysa joining the Alliance, the balance is broken. Mark my words, Ji Firepaw will play a big part in future patches, and will probably (most likely) play a part in Garrosh's downfall. Maybe Ji will pass his philosophy down to Garrosh? Just like Arthas, Garrosh won't have any evil intentions other than saving and protecting his people, even if the price of it is dabbling into fel energies for example.

And... I know that I will hate myself for saying this but... The old gods will play a part in this... Just as the Old Gods play a part in everything in the past, including Arthas, we can be assured that they will play a part with Garrosh, even if it's not direct corruption.

[Venziir]

This is not crazy... It's very interesting *strokes beard*... Yes very interesting indeed!

[Deleted]

Metzen has constantly reminded us that the expansion is all about the pandaren teaching balance. With Ji joining the horde and Aysa joining the Alliance, the balance is broken. Mark my words, Ji Firepaw will play a big part in future patches, and will probably (most likely) play a part in Garrosh's downfall. Maybe Ji will pass his philosophy down to Garrosh? Just like Arthas, Garrosh won't have any evil intentions other than saving and protecting his people, even if the price of it is dabbling into fel energies for example.

Actually, it's the complete opposite. Huojin are about action and pragmatism, but they aren't about revenge or hatred. If there anything that Ji pass to the Horde is the teachings that one can fight with being "eye of an eye".

[Envojus]

Actually, it's the complete opposite. Huojin are about action and pragmatism, but they aren't about revenge or hatred. If there anything that Ji pass to the Horde is the teachings that one can fight with being "eye of an eye".

Yes, you are right, but look at Arthas once more.

Arthas didn't purge Stratholme out of revenge or hatred. He purged it because that was the only way of stopping the plague. Even if it was drastic, it still achieved the goal.

This had lead Arthas to the Frostmourne incident. Arthas was filled with hatred and revenge by then. Maybe this is where the Huojin leads its followers. Simply the Pandaren don't know about it just because they were in perfect balance with the Tushui. Without them, there is nothing to keep them in place.

[Deleted]

Yes, you are right, but look at Arthas once more.

Arthas didn't purge Stratholme out of revenge or hatred. He purged it because that was the only way of stopping the plague. Even if it was drastic, it still achieved the goal.

This had lead Arthas to the Frostmourne incident. Arthas was filled with hatred and revenge by then. Maybe this is where the Huojin leads its followers. Simply the Pandaren don't know about it just because they were in perfect balance with the Tushui. Without them, there is nothing to keep them in place.

By the time of Stratholme, Arthas already knew about Mal'Ganis and was hating the horrors of the plague. That was what led him to cull Stratholme. It was masterfully planned by Ner'zhul and Kel'Thuzad.

The Huojin do have someone to keep them in place, themselves. The Pandaren don't think like us, we are talking about a 10 thousand years way of living and thinking that is different for the rest of Azeroth. At the end, Ji will remember the teaching of his late master.

[Dreknar20]

Yes, you are right, but look at Arthas once more.

Arthas didn't purge Stratholme out of revenge or hatred. He purged it because that was the only way of stopping the plague. Even if it was drastic, it still achieved the goal.

This had lead Arthas to the Frostmourne incident. Arthas was filled with hatred and revenge by then. Maybe this is where the Huojin leads its followers. Simply the Pandaren don't know about it just because they were in perfect balance with the Tushui. Without them, there is nothing to keep them in place.

Well, Aysa's way of thinking isnt always right tho
If Arthas "waited too see" instead of jumping into action, then all of Sratholme would be undead allowing the Scourge to wipe out Lorderan much sooner

The Panderan are supposed to be trying to strike a balance between the 2 philosophies

[Trassk]

I wouldn't mind Ji playing a good role in the hordes story to show balance. However, its simply a case that Garrosh has gone to far already in his pursuit for war. And him being a character who has no family, nobody he loves or holds dear to, the only thing that matters to him is war and conflict, he will not just change his mind and suddenly share flowers with the alliance.
I see that Ji will play a part in letting the horde realise the wrongs of war and what it brought to a nation who put aside there conflicts long ago, but Garrosh will not see it, and see anyone that doesn't agree with his pursuits for war as traitors.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Arguably we've already seen this. I won't spoil it, but Ji's philosophy almost kills someone in the Pandaren starting zone. The thing is, it was the only option.

[kombucha]

Half on-topic: Houjin isn't about Hate or Revenge, it's about action.

In simplest terms Houjin and Tushui represent two opposing philosophies that are both equally valid and flawed; Contemplation vs. Action. Dwelling without acting gets you nowhere, and brash action without consideration can get you killed.

I'm really excited about how Blizzard handled the lore behind the Panderan joining both the Horde and Alliance.

[Trassk]

What I hope is that Ji, who seems to be a character who believes in actions before thought and contemplation, will realize not taking the time to think can lead to consequences. As a result, he will see Garrosh and how he doesn't think about anything other then war, and begins to realize his own mistakes when seeing how Garrosh acts.

[kombucha]

It would have to be a subtle and/or very slow development in Ji's character, otherwise it would dilute the Houjin's philosophical opposition to Tushui.

Some of what we saw in Cataclysm can be a good example of how Houjin fits with the Horde. One of clearest representations of action being important to the Horde would be Garrosh's grab for land and resources almost immediately after the Cataclysm (see Ashenvale)

That said, all things should be in balance and if Ji's character didn't develop at all, it wouldn't make for an interesting faction leader.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Half on-topic: Houjin isn't about Hate or Revenge, it's about action.

In simplest terms Houjin and Tushui represent two opposing philosophies that are both equally valid and flawed; Contemplation vs. Action. Dwelling without acting gets you nowhere, and brash action without consideration can get you killed.

I'm really excited about how Blizzard handled the lore behind the Panderan joining both the Horde and Alliance.

And then your character walks the middle between them. That's why you're called Shang Xi's greatest student, because you didn't pick to follow a philosophy.

[kombucha]

And then your character walks the middle between them. That's why you're called Shang Xi's greatest student, because you didn't pick to follow a philosophy.

Balance in all things is a philosophy in itself. :P

Is what you're saying implied for all playable Panderan Horde and Alliance or are you just speaking from a personal perspective? (Forgive me, I haven't played one on Beta as of yet)

[fizzbob]

this is nothing new or creative or whatever, it's folks like garrosh vs folks like thrall

hot temper vs wisdom

i don't like how wisdom is assigned to the alliance personally, there isn't a difference in horde and alliance. labeling one the hotheaded faction and the other the wise faction is pretty ridiculous

[kombucha]

this is nothing new or creative or whatever, it's folks like garrosh vs folks like thrall

hot temper vs wisdom

i don't like how wisdom is assigned to the alliance personally, there isn't a difference in horde and alliance. labeling one the hotheaded faction and the other the wise faction is pretty ridiculous

Also translated into the above: Action vs Contemplation.

It's been argued more than once in-game that one of Thrall's biggest faults/merits was his pursuit of a peaceful treaty with the Alliance. To some taking as much land/resources for yourself rather than splitting them equally with your foe in peace would keep your faction around longer in the end when said resources become scarce (similar to survival scenarios in which your likelihood of survival is much lower if you take the approach of equality and sharing rather the hoarding for yourself: Everyone can run out of food in 5 days or one person can live for 30)

[Trassk]

It would have to be a subtle and/or very slow development in Ji's character, otherwise it would dilute the Houjin's philosophical opposition to Tushui.

Some of what we saw in Cataclysm can be a good example of how Houjin fits with the Horde. One of clearest representations of action being important to the Horde would be Garrosh's grab for land and resources almost immediately after the Cataclysm (see Ashenvale)

That said, all things should be in balance and if Ji's character didn't develop at all, it wouldn't make for an interesting faction leader.

thats going to be the point of it though. Balance will be the overriding theme of how it works out in the end. The two concepts of Aysa and Ji's beliefs is one believes in planning and thinking well the other believes solely in actions before thought. What will happen though, is when it becomes obvious this is the fault of both sides following this belief, that unless the horde and alliance both can adopt a belief of thinking and action together, they will fail as factions.

The horde needs to stop with its Garrosh fed belief that only action and war matters, that some sense of inner harmony will be good for it, where as the alliance needs to step up and takes some actions instead of just sitting around and talking about it all the time.

That it how the balance will be achieved.

When the horde lost Cairne, and Thrall leaving from his position as warchief, the horde lost its wisdom. I'm hoping to dear god the events of mists brings wisdom back to the horde.

[kombucha]

It would be an interesting close assuming the expansion turns out to be a climax in the Horde vs. Alliance conflict as the Blues have implied. I'm eager to see how it plays out.

[Togarox]

There is a huge difference between Ji and Arthas though. Arthas lost sight of what he was fighting for. Ji hasn't (at least not as of yet). I have a feeling Garrosh is following the Arthas storyline though which will end up being why we kill him.

I think it would be cool for both, Ji and Aysa, to meet up again at the end of the expansion in the SoO raid and use both of their "strengths" to help kill Garrosh.

[Trassk]

Ha, as an unforeseen twist, Ji and Aysa become the main leaders of horde and alliance. Just sayin.

[MrHappy]

very interesting indeed and i want to add a few things as well.

Second tier of the expansion stated by blizz will be practically an all-out war with each other with massive military forces mobilizing on Pandaria. The question is....what would cause such a war effort to arise? Yes the tension has been growing over Tarajo/Durotar/Southshore/etc but this seems excessive.

My theory is that the catalyst for the Horde vs Alliance war is none other than Anduin. While Anduin wants to keep neutral and end the Horde vs Allinace conflict I think that his capture is the reason Alliance went to war. Whether his capture that led to it or the death of a horde to rescue him that spurred the Horde to retaliate i do not know but it would make a lot of sense.

Another possibility that as the HvA conflict grows the Sha grows stronger and more rampant. This can lead to two possibilities of either a) Hellscream wants to protect his people from that Sha and seeks power to destroy it (which may be ironic because he played a part in its creation indirectly) or b) Sha corrupts the warchief himself and his lust wants every man, woman and child of the alliance burned which causes him to seek Dark powers (old god?) to do it. If he was to succeed than all of Azeroth is doomed to be swallowed by the darkness of the Sha and/or old gods

it is likely that Ji may be a general of Hellscream in the last raid and Aysa may have to stop him in same manner Tirion had to stop Arthas