[Megathread] DotA 2

[Freezymcgee]

Just broke 600 games, jesus I need a life.

[PizzaSHARK]

Yep, I'm buying the invite package tomorrow when I get home. Got my bonus on this paycheck so I can afford to splurge.

DOTA isn't designed to be newbie-friendly and never has. That'll probably ensure LoL remains more popular, but it's not like DOTA 2 won't be successful.

[Deleted]

I finally got invited to Dota 2, did a preorder for €29,99 immediately. I must say LoL has a high learning curve but Dota 2 has a learning cliff, oh man.

If the preorder is the preorder I'm thinking about, you basically just bought yourself another beta invite. The game'll be F2P.

[Zoukan]

If the preorder is the preorder I'm thinking about, you basically just bought yourself another beta invite. The game'll be F2P.

I think I said it wrong. I recieved an email promoting this Dota 2 Invite sale (http://www.dota2.com/store/itemdetai...9587?appid=570) So I wasn't invited but got notified.

[Lysah]

I don't know why they took VS over Shadow Demon when Shadow Demon wasn't banned, though. I remember Puppey basically saying SD was like VS without the suck, and after watching a lot of games with both I can agree... Disruption is just such an amazing ability.

Both are awesome in their own way. Eredar certainly has the ability to crush people even completely by himself, disruption combined with the damage curse can win just about any lane. At the same time, VS has an extremely powerful aura, and extremely powerful AoE armor debuff/vision seeker, and the best single target stun in the game. Swap is also one of the better ultimates, in my opinion. VS's problem is that if she doesn't get any items she will fall off pretty hard late game. She's not a real support, though everyone ends up playing her that way lately because when she gets picked other supports do not. Played hybrid support/carry she can put out some very serious damage, combined with her utility she's one of my favorite heroes in the game.

SD is a lot of fun in lane, but he falls off regardless of items, he is one of the more easily broken ints in my experience. While disruption and purge are certainly extremely powerful CCs, expect him to be dead two seconds into any team fight. When it comes down to it, VS can do most everything SD can do, but SD can't do half the things VS does.

[PizzaSHARK]

Both are awesome in their own way. Eredar certainly has the ability to crush people even completely by himself, disruption combined with the damage curse can win just about any lane. At the same time, VS has an extremely powerful aura, and extremely powerful AoE armor debuff/vision seeker, and the best single target stun in the game. Swap is also one of the better ultimates, in my opinion. VS's problem is that if she doesn't get any items she will fall off pretty hard late game. She's not a real support, though everyone ends up playing her that way lately because when she gets picked other supports do not. Played hybrid support/carry she can put out some very serious damage, combined with her utility she's one of my favorite heroes in the game.

SD is a lot of fun in lane, but he falls off regardless of items, he is one of the more easily broken ints in my experience. While disruption and purge are certainly extremely powerful CCs, expect him to be dead two seconds into any team fight. When it comes down to it, VS can do most everything SD can do, but SD can't do half the things VS does.

Why're you saying MM's the best stun? It's got one of the shortest durations (1.75 at lvl 4), and while 325 damage is more than most other similar spells (which usually top at about 300), the cooldown's longer than a lot of other stuns. Skeleton King's storm bolt is a 2 sec stun followed by 2 seconds of snare and only has an 8 sec cooldown, and while Enigma's Malefice is sort of a stun over time effect and has a 15 sec cooldown, it's good for three separate 1 second stuns, which means there's no way you can TP out while it's still working. Hell, if you want to count it one, no one comes anywhere near Bane's Fiend's Grip as a single target stun, though being an ult it's not up very often.

Personally I just now saw they finally put Nessaj into the game so I know which hero I'm playing first

[Lysah]

Why're you saying MM's the best stun? It's got one of the shortest durations (1.75 at lvl 4), and while 325 damage is more than most other similar spells (which usually top at about 300), the cooldown's longer than a lot of other stuns. Skeleton King's storm bolt is a 2 sec stun followed by 2 seconds of snare and only has an 8 sec cooldown, and while Enigma's Malefice is sort of a stun over time effect and has a 15 sec cooldown, it's good for three separate 1 second stuns, which means there's no way you can TP out while it's still working. Hell, if you want to count it one, no one comes anywhere near Bane's Fiend's Grip as a single target stun, though being an ult it's not up very often.

Personally I just now saw they finally put Nessaj into the game so I know which hero I'm playing first

The damage is extremely important, VS can completely win a lane simply because of MM's power. They had to nerf the stun duration because it was just too much.

Hellfire blast would be higher rated if the projectile speed wasn't abysmal. It's still a great ability, of course, but MM hits you the second you see VS firing it.

Malefice is probably the closest competitor, and I'd consider it damn near broken, however the tiny window between stuns is barely enough time to try to fight back, even though the majority of the time it feels like it may as well be a 6 second stun. As you pointed out, the cooldown here hurts.

VS on the other easily competes for her spot among the best picks for roamers.

[Zoukan]

I've got into MOBA games through LoL, and now playing Dota 2. There are two things that I seem to cope bad with. One is the turret ranges, it's at least twice as far as in LoL. Second one is the stuns, they last so long that I'm dead even before I can use my escape. I ain't saying it's bad, I love Dota 2 already. It's just so hard to get better. I love playing Weaver, anyone has some good tips?

[Finear]

I love playing Weaver, anyone has some good tips?

dont blindly rush linkens please :s

[conceit2]

SD's disable has more potential regarding the damage output, while one is able to actually attack the target during the VS stun. Another thing that makes VS stun powerful earlygame is that you are almost always able to cast it twice on the same target (the good old stun-swap-stun) during a gank, making it a powerful tool. SD's disable, however, is not only great offensive but can also be used to dodge sven/sk/other stuns.

When making the choice between any of the two heroes it is, of course, important to look at your (or the enemy) team. For instance, a badly used disruption can completely screw your allied SK/Lina/Luna/Obsi/Other ult (I've noticed it even seems to mess up Furion sprout (bug?)), or picking disruption when the enemy team has little physical damage output isn't (generally) that useful aswell.

dont blindly rush linkens please :s

Don't blindly do anything. Tunnelvision is often your worst enemy.

[Lillpapps]

dont blindly rush linkens please :s

dont play dota if you are blind :/

[Zoukan]

dont blindly rush linkens please :s

Usually I just have enough time to complete my Treads and a Radiance. My next step would be a BKB.

[Lysah]

Radiance on weaver is questionable. Very old strategy and the meta has changed quite a bit, teams are tighter than they used to be and radiance is the kind of item useful for splitting and chasing. Carries in general need more durability now. With that said, weaver is the kind of hero who will rarely if ever need a BKB. You shouldn't really get caught out of invis long enough for people to set up a chain on you, and items like manta can give you the same level of absurdly hard to kill while also boosting your damage potential.

Weaver has so many build options that I rarely get the same items twice in a row. Really, every game is different.

You could just do what everyone else is doing lately and pick morphling. I think I seriously see him almost every single game now.

[Zoukan]

Radiance on weaver is questionable. Very old strategy and the meta has changed quite a bit, teams are tighter than they used to be and radiance is the kind of item useful for splitting and chasing. Carries in general need more durability now. With that said, weaver is the kind of hero who will rarely if ever need a BKB. You shouldn't really get caught out of invis long enough for people to set up a chain on you, and items like manta can give you the same level of absurdly hard to kill while also boosting your damage potential.

Weaver has so many build options that I rarely get the same items twice in a row. Really, every game is different.

You could just do what everyone else is doing lately and pick morphling. I think I seriously see him almost every single game now.

That's some great advise, I'm gonna expirement with it. Thanks.

[Kuntantee]

Radiance on weaver is questionable. Very old strategy and the meta has changed quite a bit, teams are tighter than they used to be and radiance is the kind of item useful for splitting and chasing. Carries in general need more durability now. With that said, weaver is the kind of hero who will rarely if ever need a BKB. You shouldn't really get caught out of invis long enough for people to set up a chain on you, and items like manta can give you the same level of absurdly hard to kill while also boosting your damage potential.

Weaver has so many build options that I rarely get the same items twice in a row. Really, every game is different.

You could just do what everyone else is doing lately and pick morphling. I think I seriously see him almost every single game now.

Early radiance is never questionable and would work almost any game. I don't see any weaver picks in tournaments as well as in DotA2 TV. Weaver pick is a nostalgia now. I rarely see Spectre as well...It's one of the best carries in game...I don't know why it's not being picked up.

Usually I just have enough time to complete my Treads and a Radiance. My next step would be a BKB.

I've been playing DotA for a long time and watching streams for 2 years now and I don't remember any weavers with BKB. Go for vanguard if you want to stay alive. Linken is waste of money on weaver unless you get fed in first 15 mins.

[Lysah]

Possible, like I've said in the past, the game isn't balanced with 30 heroes missing. The absence of many of the best heroes tend to skew picks in favor of certain lineups. As a quick example, no KotL means that a push team with anchor chen is a lot harder to stop, as a result, chen is banned fairly regularly (almost every single tournament level game I'm told). Not to say chen doesn't have other strengths as well, but the lack of counters to him certainly does make him better. This logic applies to heroes with counters in the same way. Why would you pick weaver when SF's counters aren't in the game?

[Kuntantee]

Possible, like I've said in the past, the game isn't balanced with 30 heroes missing. The absence of many of the best heroes tend to skew picks in favor of certain lineups. As a quick example, no KotL means that a push team with anchor chen is a lot harder to stop, as a result, chen is banned fairly regularly (almost every single tournament level game I'm told). Not to say chen doesn't have other strengths as well, but the lack of counters to him certainly does make him better. This logic applies to heroes with counters in the same way. Why would you pick weaver when SF's counters aren't in the game?

Most heroes with pushing power are in game. Just checked missing heroes again, I couldn't catch any hero with massive pushing power other than Ezalor and maybe Pit Lord(speaking for 6.72f where I stoped playing DotA) which makes the game balanced in terms of number of pusher heroes(I believe). Which heroes do you think counters of SF? I believe game currently has plenty of SF counters(rikimaru, naix even tinker early on).

[Lysah]

Counters late game don't matter, by the SF has way out farmed you. He needs lane counters, heroes like Medusa that can give him a hard time from the first minute. Even with harder lane matchups he's still one of the best heroes in the game.

And I don't mean balanced in terms of number of heroes, I mean balanced in terms of there being nothing you can do to stop Chen right now. When KotL gets added you can just counter pick him, and if they try early game pushes you just send KotL to clear Chen's army out in two illuminates. You can really see this at work, there are heroes that get picked all the time right now that never got picked in DotA1. Expect the heroes that are currently "good" to be considered bad in the future, and expect heroes that are currently "bad" to be good picks in the future.

[Deleted]

Expect the heroes that are currently "good" to be considered bad in the future, and expect heroes that are currently "bad" to be good picks in the future.

I'm really new to DOTA2 (as in, never ever played it), but does this mean it's actually less well balanced than people claim it to be (if many champions will be considered 'bad').

I keep reading 2 points about DOTA2:

-Less 'set in stone' meta
- More balanced.

However, your statement kind of negates these. At least the way I read it is that there's way stronger picks than others. Is this the case, or is it just a case of counterpicking correctly?

Thanks!

[Ultraviolet Harmonies]

I'm really new to DOTA2 (as in, never ever played it), but does this mean it's actually less well balanced than people claim it to be (if many champions will be considered 'bad').

I keep reading 2 points about DOTA2:

-Less 'set in stone' meta
- More balanced.

However, your statement kind of negates these. At least the way I read it is that there's way stronger picks than others. Is this the case, or is it just a case of counterpicking correctly?

Thanks!

The metagame is often described as purely how the majority of professional teams prefer to play the game. I don't necessarily agree with the usage of metagame, and would prefer to use "current popular strategies". With certain heroes out of the pool, some strats work out more often, and are less likely to get countered. That's why you see trends. These can be vastly different in the different scenes (chinese metagame tends to favour turtling and letting one carry get superfarmed, for example). You see heroes like Dark Seer, Windrunner and Natures Prophet being frequently picked and banned because they fit in incredibly well with current popular strategies in the professional scene.

However, this does seldom translate directly into public matchmaking games, unless you're running five-stacks or playing -cm. People pick what they want to play, often disregarding the opposing team and the own team. People stay in lane when they more optimally could gank. You can see a nice graph over here, where you can see that Alchemist is currently the hero that wins the least amount of games, paired with his low number of games played (which is obviously skewed due to certain heroes being around for longer). This doesn't mean that Alchemist is useless, or will lose your team the game. It might, but it doesn't mean that a Crystal Maiden/Lina/Alchemist isn't one hell of a trilane. As the hero pool grows larger, some strats will be easier to counter against (and harder to ban for). That's just how DotA works, with it being sort of ever-evolving.

Some heroes (Lycan, Ursa) take a lot of coordination and effort to stop. This makes him very powerful in public matchmaking games, where there usually is a shortage of communication and coordination. This doesn't neccersarily carry over to the professional scene. I would still want to argue that DotA2 is more balanced than its competitors.

But hey, that's just my opinion, you can find people contradicting every point I made everywhere.