1. #2361
    Deleted
    BTW, the new Blinkstrike talent frikking rocks. Gonna make target switching SOOOO much more effective. And even on single target it does really nice damage.

    P.S i HATE the new CD on readiness, fucks up everything with syncing CD´s. And stampede still sucks balls.

  2. #2362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    BTW, the new Blinkstrike talent frikking rocks. Gonna make target switching SOOOO much more effective. And even on single target it does really nice damage.

    P.S i HATE the new CD on readiness, fucks up everything with syncing CD´s. And stampede still sucks balls.
    I find the new Cd justified however, Since it became Baseline, which rocks. As Aettis mentioned before, Having both Fervor and Readiness is pretty lovely

  3. #2363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    BTW, the new Blinkstrike talent frikking rocks. Gonna make target switching SOOOO much more effective. And even on single target it does really nice damage.

    P.S i HATE the new CD on readiness, fucks up everything with syncing CD´s. And stampede still sucks balls.
    Blinkstrike sucks for pve. its OK for pvp. and ye I agree. the new readiness is stupid as **** :< but what im even more suprised about is the fact that they nerfed Thrill of the hunt that they said were to weak and they would buff and then they also put Dire Beast together with the focus regen specc? what? sure it does some dmg but the focus regen from it SUCKS.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-14 at 01:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kluddesu View Post
    I find the new Cd justified however, Since it became Baseline, which rocks. As Aettis mentioned before, Having both Fervor and Readiness is pretty lovely
    Sucks that readiness doesnt work on Fervor :<

  4. #2364
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kluddesu View Post
    I Sucks that readiness doesnt work on Fervor :<
    That sounds like a bug thou. Should probably reset it.

    Any news on if they plan on fixing frenzy/focus fire uptime ? Takes like 45-60 seconds now to stack it to 5. And duration is 20 sec. 33% uptimes compared to the old version wich easyly had 100%. Aswell as lower pet damage.
    Last edited by mmocd658a685e4; 2012-07-14 at 01:22 PM.

  5. #2365
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    I don't. As I've said countless times - if they wanted us to have 100% mobility all the time, then we'd become *the* superior class in everything that gives you movement-downtime in a PvE enviroment.
    Since you're talking about PVE, we already do near 100% damage on the move without using Fox. How often do you have to change to Fox anyways? If you're anticipating movement, you pool focus for instants, so you don't have to switch. Checked WoL from last DS clear and I used Fox 17 times the entire run (including trash as we always pull next pack before the first one dies) and never had to cancel a Cobra cast.

    This change doesn't change anything for PVE. If hunters were macro'ing Cobra/Steady to Fox for PVE, they were already losing damage. This change is purely for PVP where even high rated hunters have them macro'd, since Cobra/Steady currently do the least amount of damage and it's not worth breaking casts in a fast paced, movement heavy situations. If you look at GC's response, it's addressing this very fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    Any news on if they plan on fixing frenzy/focus fire uptime ? Takes like 45-60 seconds now to stack it to 5. And duration is 20 sec. 33% uptimes compared to the old version wich easyly had 100%. Aswell as lower pet damage.
    Frenzy is unchanged. I am still lucky to get 1 proc every few mins while questing at 90. It's more consistent in raids though (~every 45sec in questing blues). However, you need to spam Fervor pretty much every CD to keep it that consistent as pets go OOF very frequently.

  6. #2366
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    That sounds like a bug thou. Should probably reset it.

    Any news on if they plan on fixing frenzy/focus fire uptime ? Takes like 45-60 seconds now to stack it to 5. And duration is 20 sec. 33% uptimes compared to the old version wich easyly had 100%. Aswell as lower pet damage.
    I doubt Focus Fire will change. Its essentially a Rapid Fire at 5 stacks and BM gets it eveyr 45 seconds to a minute, as you said. Pretty powerful. Remember, this version is much more powerful than the live version.

    Also, the only thing the old Readiness lined up with was Rapid Fire. Every other cooldown is 2 minutes or less. While it does 'suck' that the cooldown got bumped up to 5 minutes, the simple fact that every spec gets it instead of it being a talent is pretty much a godsend.

    On the note of Dire Beast, while it only returns 35 focus every 30 seconds, it also does damage(unlike the other 2).

    And Thrill of the Hunt..I did also think they were going to buff it. But if you actually look at it, it doesnt need buffing. It has a 15% chance to trigger a free Arcane Shot(22 focus) or Multishot(40 focus). In order to compare to Fervors 100 focus every 30 seconds, TotH would need to proc 5 times for Arcane Shot or 3 times for Multishot. Over 30 seconds, as MM(on live), I had 37 ranged attacks(47 if Wild Quiver can proc it), and as SV, I had 38 ranged attacks. At a 15% chance to trigger, you'd likely see around of 4 to 5 procs per 30 seconds, which is roughly 88 to 110 focus for single target, or 150 to 200 focus for AoE(though I suspect shots fired over 30 seconds for AoE is lower due to constant higher focus cost). So really, TotH isn't bad at all(aside from the bug). Its a passive and random form of regen that might be more rewarding than Fervor over a longer fight
    Last edited by Renley; 2012-07-14 at 03:04 PM.

  7. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarjun View Post
    This change doesn't change anything for PVE. If hunters were macro'ing Cobra/Steady to Fox for PVE, they were already losing damage. This change is purely for PVP where even high rated hunters have them macro'd, since Cobra/Steady currently do the least amount of damage and it's not worth breaking casts in a fast paced, movement heavy situations. If you look at GC's response, it's addressing this very fact.
    But it's very strange attempt at a fix; they're effectively just making a clunky mechanic, clunkier in order to discourage us from trying to make it work as smoothly as possible. Bizarre Entertainment Inc.

  8. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    I doubt Focus Fire will change. Its essentially a Rapid Fire at 5 stacks and BM gets it eveyr 45 seconds to a minute, as you said. Pretty powerful. Remember, this version is much more powerful than the live version.
    I would take live version over beta anyday of the week. 100% decent vs 33% good and 66% bad cast times on cobra.

  9. #2369
    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    That sounds like a bug thou. Should probably reset it.

    Any news on if they plan on fixing frenzy/focus fire uptime ? Takes like 45-60 seconds now to stack it to 5. And duration is 20 sec. 33% uptimes compared to the old version wich easyly had 100%. Aswell as lower pet damage.
    There's nothing to fix. You don't have to wait for 5 stacks to use it. If you want the same effect it had before (15% haste), you only need 2 stacks. It's actually become a much more interesting ability now because you need to figure out whether it's better to wait for the full 40% haste stack or use it as needed.
    Last edited by bil; 2012-07-14 at 03:11 PM.

  10. #2370
    The Readiness cooldown change is just an inconvienance, yes 3 mins so it can sink with Rapid Fire would be great. But that could still happen before beta is done (dont get hopes up though).

    If Cobra/Steady shot is ever to be implemented on the move then it would be 1st as a 2pece bonus just so everyone can see how OP/non OP it is and then maybe introduced as a glyph

    Is Blink Strike on the GCD?

  11. #2371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oggy View Post
    That sounds like a bug thou. Should probably reset it.

    Any news on if they plan on fixing frenzy/focus fire uptime ? Takes like 45-60 seconds now to stack it to 5. And duration is 20 sec. 33% uptimes compared to the old version wich easyly had 100%. Aswell as lower pet damage.

    the new frenzy is like 5 times more powerful than the old frenzy so it's not supposed to be up 100% of the time
    it's supposed to be a very big deal that you have to time carefully.

  12. #2372
    Quote Originally Posted by aarjun View Post
    Since you're talking about PVE, we already do near 100% damage on the move without using Fox. How often do you have to change to Fox anyways? If you're anticipating movement, you pool focus for instants, so you don't have to switch. Checked WoL from last DS clear and I used Fox 17 times the entire run (including trash as we always pull next pack before the first one dies) and never had to cancel a Cobra cast.

    This change doesn't change anything for PVE. If hunters were macro'ing Cobra/Steady to Fox for PVE, they were already losing damage. This change is purely for PVP where even high rated hunters have them macro'd, since Cobra/Steady currently do the least amount of damage and it's not worth breaking casts in a fast paced, movement heavy situations. If you look at GC's response, it's addressing this very fact.

    Frenzy is unchanged. I am still lucky to get 1 proc every few mins while questing at 90. It's more consistent in raids though (~every 45sec in questing blues). However, you need to spam Fervor pretty much every CD to keep it that consistent as pets go OOF very frequently.
    You're not getting the point, are you? Just because it's balanced right now because thats what they balanced us AROUND, does not mean that it will be balanced in MOP, or that it's what they want us to be like in MOP. You're comparing the current state of hunters, that are obviously supposed to have extremely high mobility, with the future state of hunters, which Blizzard is implying with all these changes, will have lower mobility to put them more on-par with the rest of the casters.

    Also, just for your information, Dragon soul is, so far, the tier with the least movement of every single tier I've played. Besides that, you're doing farmruns with the 30% buff, rather than progressing. Morchok, Zon'ozz, and Hagara all 3 benefitted from smart usage of Fox - for example, there's usually about 6 seconds from Morchok stomps, till his crystal explodes. This means that if you have a fully loaded focus bar when you start running after the stomp (prenerf, mind you, in Firelands gear, so you actually HAD to soak and do it well), and if we assume that takes 2-3 seconds, that means that you've used up to 80 out of 100 focus (explosive + arcane + arcane), and have to regen your focus from cobra shotting again - you have 3 seconds to do this in before the crystal interrupts you. Which means 18+18+(9 from focus regen)=65 focus. When the crystal interrupts you, you spend the remaining 60 focus while you're flying up/falling down. Now you have absolutly no focus, and you have to run back in time for the stomp, then run out again.

    post nerf, it's not an issue, as it doesn't really matter if you're stacked for healing, but in 391 gear without the debuff? I can assure you that quite a few guilds actually managed to hit the enrage on Morchok the first week or two.

    Likewise, Zon'ozz benefits from using fox to move between positions to kill eye's / tentacles, due to the huge room you have to cover (in 25 man - it's a non existant issue in 10 man, obviously).

    Hagara's ice phase, need I say more (remember, you had 2 of every phase pre-nerf in firelands gear)?

    And thats for a tier where movement is at the bare minimum. Take our opening Tier:
    Omnotron - stacking, spreading for abilities, kiting poison puddles, avoiding stuff on the floor.
    Magmaw - Avoiding fire left from bone sentinels, avoiding parasite spawns, avoiding magmaw's slam.
    Maloriak - Black phase has constant movement to not get hit and was the hardest part of the fight, avoiding ice spheres' during the burn phase.
    Chimearon - No real movement due to being the "patchwerk" boss of T11.
    Atramedes - Kiting during air-phase (where you could still hit him), avoiding sonar pulses during down-phase.
    Nefarian - constant shuffling around the dragon in P3, not alot of movement and could be avoided by focus pooling if you were good at reading the tank's habbits.

    So thats 4 out of 6 encounters with very heavy movement in BWD.

    Halfus - avoiding fireballs on the floor.
    V+T - Stacking/spreading for blackout, avoiding twilight meteors, avoiding the breath-of-death, avoiding swirly twillight pools of doom, avoiding deep breath - very heavy movement.
    Ascendant Council - Staying spread to avoid the debuffs, running together to get rid of the debuffs, moving into fire to get rid of the water-debuff, then repositioning, in P2 you were moving *constantly* to keep up with Arion teleporting everywhere, lightning rods had to be dealt with, ice sphere's had to be kited, you couldn't stand close to terrestra due to the spike-attack (s)he did, avoiding grounding/lifting debuffs and getting the correct one to counter their raid-wipe attacks. P3 did not have much movement, except if the tank managed to drag the boss out of your range (and even then, moving was probably a death-sentence to whoever you got in range of).
    Cho'gall - minor movement, only to kill off adds.
    Sinestra - Constant avoidance of shadow-orb cutters, and personally, we used a tactic that relied on me and another hunter backing up our whelp-tank in the back to kill them off one-by-one, laying them all down in straight lines, so the adds' wouldn't respawn. It ment that the entire raid just had to keep tunneling the boss and avoid cutters, except for the two hunters, stacks wouldn't overwhelm the tank as he wouldn't be tanking the sets twice, etc (and hunters could help MD the whelps, obviously). This made it a high-movement fight for me, but I'm aware that most guilds used a tactic that involved tank switching, and the entire raid nuking down the whelps.

    Conclave of wind - apart from the obvious movement between platforms, anyone remember Rohash? Hunters with 100% mobility and no min-range would have been *GODS* on that platform (we didn't use ours because you had to get close for the wind blast in order to "easily" outrun it, and hunters couldn't dps during that due to min range - but that's getting removed, so no longer a concern).
    Al'akir - do I even have to say anything? Heavy movement in every single phase to avoid squall lines in 1/2 and to avoid lightning clouds in 3.

    Almost every single T11 boss had heavy movement mechanics. Need to get myself some breakfast now, but to recap firelands, Rhyolith/Alysrazor (where we *got* 100% mobility in order to keep up)/Ragnaros prenerf were all also very high movement fights - either of them easily beat anything DS threw at us.

  13. #2373
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    don't think of losing a three minute Readiness, think of GAINING a new base line cooldown!
    isn't that really what matters here?

  14. #2374
    Sorry but for something to be interesting it has to force you to be making the decisions. I realize some people want our aspects just to be automatic or not exist at all. If they did that they would just get rid of the damage bonus from hawk, and make steady/cobra able to be cast on the move. So you would just be in fox the whole time, imagine the qq then.
    It's like saying you don't actually want to use a rotation, just one button that did our damage for us. Yes that would be easier, but not fun. They will do whatever they have to do in order to stop aspects from just being something you have to set up macros for, then completely forget the whole mechanic.

  15. #2375
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    Im am confused why some people are saying pets when summoned by stampede do 25% of their normal damage and the Tooltip on the front page of MMO says stampede pets do 175% of there damage?

    I am i missing something? which is correct?

  16. #2376
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Im am confused why some people are saying pets when summoned by stampede do 25% of their normal damage and the Tooltip on the front page of MMO says stampede pets do 175% of there damage?

    I am i missing something? which is correct?
    Tooltip in game stats 25% damage for the 4 other pets.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-14 at 04:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    don't think of losing a three minute Readiness, think of GAINING a new base line cooldown!
    isn't that really what matters here?
    Exactly! For many of us, we weren't going to choose Readiness due to Fervor being so extremely good for our damage compared to it(from a raiding perspective). An extra Rapid Fire wasn't all that grand next to Fervor. And for PvP, now you get Readiness and another option to help focus! Fervor would be great for some extra burst.

  17. #2377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    Tooltip in game stats 25% damage for the 4 other pets.
    Thanks i don't have beta access so i don't have the best information
    so basically one pet doing 100% and four more doing 25% each, or i guess you can think of it as one pet doing 200% damage.

    i assume since the four summoned pets count as guardians it's not like they are able to strike with Kill Command, or Blink Strike, or Lynx Rush or Beast Cleave or anything, so it's just an increase in your basic pet-output for 20 seconds.

    do guardians at least benefit from BM mastery?

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-14 at 12:50 PM ----------

    while it's in my head:

    1) do guardians (Dire Beast, Murder of Crows, Stampede) benefit from Master Of Beasts (the BM mastery)
    2) does Beast cleave only cleave basic attacks (claw, bite, smack) or does it also cleave other attacks from the pet (Kill Command, Lynx Rush, Blink Strike)
    Last edited by Grubjuice; 2012-07-14 at 04:52 PM.

  18. #2378
    Quote Originally Posted by Gypo View Post
    Is Blink Strike on the GCD?
    It is unfortunately.

  19. #2379
    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    Thanks i don't have beta access so i don't have the best information
    so basically one pet doing 100% and four more doing 25% each, or i guess you can think of it as one pet doing 200% damage.

    i assume since the four summoned pets count as guardians it's not like they are able to strike with Kill Command, or Blink Strike, or Lynx Rush or Beast Cleave or anything, so it's just an increase in your basic pet-output for 20 seconds.

    do guardians at least benefit from BM mastery?

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-14 at 12:50 PM ----------

    while it's in my head:

    1) do guardians (Dire Beast, Murder of Crows, Stampede) benefit from Master Of Beasts (the BM mastery)
    2) does Beast cleave only cleave basic attacks (claw, bite, smack) or does it also cleave other attacks from the pet (Kill Command, Lynx Rush, Blink Strike)
    Yes, Stampede scales with BM. Stampeded pets cannot use KC, Blink Strike, or Lynx Rush, but do use everything your normal pet would(growl, basic attacks, special abilities). MoC does not(I think), and I dont think Dire Beast does either, but I could be wrong on both of these. Beast Cleave only cleaves basic attacks.

    ---------- Post added 2012-07-14 at 05:17 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakoes View Post
    It is unfortunately.
    Curious, how much damage does it do at 90 as BM compared to say, Kill Command or Arcane Shot?

  20. #2380
    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    Curious, how much damage does it do at 90 as BM compared to say, Kill Command or Arcane Shot?
    It did like 15k~ damage uncrit, so that's a lot less than KC since these two abilities are both scaling off different things (pet auto attack vs Hunter's RAP). It does very similar damage to Arcane Shot as well, so it's nothing special imo. On a sidenote, it makes the same sound and gives off the same hunter animation as KC.

    However, it did do a lot more damage when I popped Bestial Wrath, Blood Fury, trinkets and everything, but I was only able to get off 1 Blink Strike anyway due to the 20sec CD.

    The bottom line from what I've tested is that it definitely favors BM due to the way it is scaling, but it's just not *that* great for a level75 talent.
    Last edited by Drakoes; 2012-07-14 at 05:30 PM.

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