Survival Hunter Guide (Updated for 5.4)

[Keren]

I don't think this is right. This is like Paladin tank macroing Holy Shield to Crusader Strike and Hammer, and I'll tell you why I think that. I'll use the Hag fight as an example. If he is about to go to lightening phase and your gloves come off cooldown, you will pop them just by going through rotation, then have nothing to DPS after the add goes down. So the DPS up time during it's duration would be next to none, effectively wasting it's up time and CD.

completly right. also stacking of different buffs enhence there effect. Thus Rwith Springs will give better results as the bonus dps of those two used for there own. Also its vital to use cds only when you know you can use the complete uptime and acutally will do dps in taht timeframe.

[Pope]

I think we have this discussion on every class with every spec.

Yes it's bad to macro CDs into your main attacks. But keep in mind: Synapse Springs are balanced around the fact that 480*10/60 = 80 which is (was) the average bonus the other professions gave.

And do you know what's worse then macroing your CDs into your attacks? Forgetting your CDs. And you can tell me whatever you want, there are a lot of people who just tend to forget cooldowns.

I'm not even considering the fact that SV has nearly to cooldown to stack something with. Sure, RF + the pet-ability thingy, that's a no-brainer. But what do you want to stack synapse with, then? The polearm? It's just agility, the difference between stacking and not-stacking agility is miniscule. Same goes for the scope-proc.

[Dracodraco]

I think we have this discussion on every class with every spec.

Yes it's bad to macro CDs into your main attacks. But keep in mind: Synapse Springs are balanced around the fact that 480*10/60 = 80 which is (was) the average bonus the other professions gave.

And do you know what's worse then macroing your CDs into your attacks? Forgetting your CDs. And you can tell me whatever you want, there are a lot of people who just tend to forget cooldowns.

I'm not even considering the fact that SV has nearly to cooldown to stack something with. Sure, RF + the pet-ability thingy, that's a no-brainer. But what do you want to stack synapse with, then? The polearm? It's just agility, the difference between stacking and not-stacking agility is miniscule. Same goes for the scope-proc.

Chronohunter.
Rapid fire.
Berserk (troll).
Lock and Load (burst dmg benefitting from the agility boost - you, obviously, do more dps in the 10 seconds you've procced lock and load than while just firing off your normaly cycle).
Especially the last one people tend to ignore completly, god knows why.

[Pope]

Ah, godamnit, chronohunter.
Fair enough, I forgot that.
I mentioned Rapid Fire (RF) myself.
Not everybody is a troll, but ok.
And LnL.... tough thing... It's still a thin line between delaying Synapse for something and losing average uptime, and stacking it with other cooldowns with a bigger gain

I'm not disagreeing with you, just... yeah tough decision.

But what I agree with is, of course:
If you macro your CDs into your main attacks (or have items with ICDs like polearm/scope/T13/trinket), you should always be aware of their cooldowns by tracking them. And of course, if I phase-transition is coming, you should adapt to that.

[Jayeazy]

And LnL.... tough thing... It's still a thin line between delaying Synapse for something and losing average uptime, and stacking it with other cooldowns with a bigger gain

Actually, synapse can be delayed as long as you're not losing a usage during the fight. Unless the fight length is an exact multiple of a minute + 10 seconds (3:10, 4:10), there is a potential to delay it for any time past that, up to 50 seconds if it's right on the minute, and you won't be losing any possible benefit.

[Keren]

The problem with just macroin it that it will be used in situation like transition on hagara or right before ultraxion cast, every time you loose uptime there you loose the complete profession bonus. The chances to stack and that a delay for something linke L'n'L dont hurt everytime is already eyplained by CityPunch & DracoDraco

[Jrrt]

i am still confused. I have 2000 crit rating 1900ish haste rating and 900isn mastery rating and even female dwarf still values haste higher then mastery and even higher then crit at some point. Arent we supposed to drop haste as close to 750-800 range or get up to 2150 ?

[Deleted]

Arent we supposed to drop haste as close to 750-800 range

Yes we are. But in DS gear that is impossible to get that low, but still reforge out of all haste.

Also about that weird map about reforging..
Why not make it simple and put: Wowreforge.com, stat values are crit 3, mastery 2, haste 1, hit at least 961 (it gives you the least amount of hit possible regardless).

[Underskilled]

I tried looking for an answer to this, but couldn't find one, so I'll ask here; does the weight of mastery change with the madness bow? As far as I know, it's damage scales with surv's mastery, and I hear after the haste soft cap and crit, mastery and haste are fairly equal in damage, does this change with the madness bow?

[Dracodraco]

I tried looking for an answer to this, but couldn't find one, so I'll ask here; does the weight of mastery change with the madness bow? As far as I know, it's damage scales with surv's mastery, and I hear after the haste soft cap and crit, mastery and haste are fairly equal in damage, does this change with the madness bow?

The damage of the bow is less than 2% of your overall damage. It has a very, very minor effect, nothing you'll ever notice. Besides that, with 2pc t13, there is no haste softcap, just go as low as possible, crit>mastery>haste.

[Underskilled]

The damage of the bow is less than 2% of your overall damage. It has a very, very minor effect, nothing you'll ever notice. Besides that, with 2pc t13, there is no haste softcap, just go as low as possible, crit>mastery>haste.

Odd, I swear I read on EJ, and this guide here, there's a haste plateau of bringing your CS down to 1.66 seconds, is that no longer relevant with 2p t13? Or is there simply so much haste on our BiS gear you don't need to worry about it?

[Pope]

Odd, I swear I read on EJ, and this guide here, there's a haste plateau of bringing your CS down to 1.66 seconds, is that no longer relevant with 2p t13? Or is there simply so much haste on our BiS gear you don't need to worry about it?

I'd say both. The 1.66 was relevant before 2piece T13 (That's why draco mentioned it). With 2piece, the focus-incoming is a bit more... erratic... I would say, so that a certain haste-cap has no benefit.

[Deleted]

Nice guide! Although the reforging guide is a bit off. It doesnt mention reforging to haste.

[Dracodraco]

I'd say both. The 1.66 was relevant before 2piece T13 (That's why draco mentioned it). With 2piece, the focus-incoming is a bit more... erratic... I would say, so that a certain haste-cap has no benefit.

Actually, it's not as much that it's erratic, as it's the fact that with 2 set you can fire 2x cobra shots 1x instant in every 6 seconds cycle (-1 explosive shot, -3.5 cobra shot, -1 instant = 0.5 seconds leftover).
You gain 18+18=36, +27 = 63 focus over a cycle, which means to cast an arcane shot, you're relying on 3 focus to be replenished from thrill of the hunt on average for every cycle, which is fairly reasonable. Obviously, black arrow skews this a bit as it requires alot more focus, but on the other hand, lock and load replenishes alot of focus if you're low.

To the poster above: It doesn't mention reforging to haste because haste is our worst stat. Why would we ever reforge to it?

[jimmy valmer]

Has anyone tried skipping the MM tree and go into BM instead taking tier 2 talents?

[stalkerzzzz]

It's quite a large dps loss. I don't understand why would you skip the MM tree completely, even if you put 3 points into both Bestial Discipline and Frenzy you have 1 point wasted on a talent that won't increase your dps.

[Deleted]

Nice guide! Although the reforging guide is a bit off. It doesnt mention reforging to haste.

Not sure if troll. Survival hunters reforging to haste are doing it wrong.

[jimmy valmer]

There was a hunter in lfr doing top dps but he wasnt specced into the MM tree.

[Keren]

There was a hunter in lfr doing top dps but he wasnt specced into the MM tree.

LFR and TOP dps are two things that will never be reliable in one sentence. The mentioned spec in SV puts MM for good reason: 6 less focus cost on ExpS, 3 on Arcane, way more pet dps with high crit against faster pet focus and haste on pet..

[TJ]

There was a hunter in lfr doing top dps but he wasnt specced into the MM tree.

Never judge anything off LFR, topping it means next to nothing.