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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Pariah View Post
    A lot of top end guilds recruit females. A lot.

    However, to those who have a no-female policy it is usually in place because the officers realize the sex of the majority cannot usually handle the interactions of the sex of the minority. Also, relationships form which have a tendency to end which can be pretty detrimental. There are serious, non-idiotic reasons to have a male only or female only guild. If you have an issue with that, it can't be helped. People have the right to do as they please: are the girl scouts ridiculed for not allowing boys to join?

    If you're a girl looking for a top end raiding guild the only thing that's going to get you denied is your performance independent of your sex. Everything on a "we will not accept you if" list is inconsequential if you can raid when they need you and do your job very, very well.
    true, but they also have people more than likely without jobs/wives able to recruit at any moments notice. most top guilds have unemployed gamers. not to mention an influx of apps.

  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratanna View Post
    Interesting amount of publicity this is getting.

    Hi, I am the GM of the guild Nebula and yes this is our rule.
    And just to clarify some of the posts I was browsing:

    - All of are members are former graduates or are former military.
    - Our youngest member is 24 yrs old
    - Most of us are Engaged or already married
    - We all have careers

    We are not a hardcore guild. We are hardcore-casual. That means we put in 3 raid nights a week consisting of 4 hrs of extremely efficient time put in. We pride ourselves in a no favortism policy. Our guild has been established for 3 years and many of our members were former hardcore players in guilds like Impervious, Duality, DV etc.

    Many of you are right that there are good female raiders out there and that they are the minority. That is pretty much the consensus of the thread. I've been raid leading, managing, and playing the game since vanilla to understand the pros and cons of female wow gamers.

    I too have a career, and a life so I'm not willing to devote the majority of my time recruiting. I recruit for stability, efficiency and environment. It is no mystery that the best GMs are the ones that are able to devote all their time into the management/recruiting aspect of this game. I do not have this luxury. If I was able to spend that much time on it, then it is possible that Nebula could be open to female recruiting.

    Our environment is extremely efficient. No bull shit chatter, no talking about what happened on the previous dexter/breaking bad). We're here to kill bosses and progress. We all have the same mindset going into progression raids.

    The arguments of i know lots of 8/8HM females. Lets be real, when we killed shit it was pre nerf and 5% nerf. 30% nerf recruits are not the ones we're looking for. 8/8HM doesnt hold any real merit in my books anymore.

    TLDR Version: There are such a few minority of females that would fit in our guild's environment, that I'm not willing to take the risk of drama. Its a simple pros vs cons. Not a blatant statement of ALL females are bad/drama queens. That would be a ludicrous statement.

    I've been playing with female gamers for 5 years in wow. It wasn't until this past expac that we instituted this no female rule. And that was just to save time on the management end.

    Our environment is competitive, militaristic, with NO favoritism. Ask any of my members, and that is what they will tell you. I DO NOT PLAY favorites. It has been in history where many females expected special treatment. I found myself having to spend more time other than raiding/strategizing getting so I could get females to mesh with our environment. That is time I simply do not have for anymore.
    Good female raiders are as much of a minority as good male raiders. Our raid has 5 females, all of which are solid, dependable, drama-free and able individuals. We've been farming 8/8 HM since 10% on a 10 hour raid week as a 25man guild. They require no "extra maintenance" or "strategy" as you claim.

    If you've had bad experiences with female raiders, then it's probably because you did a poor job recruiting. Or maybe it's just your style of raiding. Being in a military-style guild doesn't exactly mesh well with most girls so your argument doesn't really defend the point people are trying to make in this topic. That being said, this is probably one of more sexist topics I've ever read.. and I pity most of you who think that females only bring a headache. Any *actually good* raiding guild would never discriminate.

    Also, good job sneaking in that guild advertisement.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Choloz View Post
    Good female raiders are as much of a minority as good male raiders. Our raid has 5 females, all of which are solid, dependable, drama-free and able individuals. We've been farming 8/8 HM since 10% on a 10 hour raid week as a 25man guild. They require no "extra maintenance" or "strategy" as you claim.

    If you've had bad experiences with female raiders, then it's probably because you did a poor job recruiting. Or maybe it's just your style of raiding. Being in a military-style guild doesn't exactly mesh well with most girls so your argument doesn't really defend the point people are trying to make in this topic. That being said, this is probably one of more sexist topics I've ever read.. and I pity most of you who think that females only bring a headache. Any *actually good* raiding guild would never discriminate.

    Also, good job sneaking in that guild advertisement.
    Exhibit A. Classic White knighting

  4. #684
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windfury View Post
    Yes we have. And you still haven't provided a justification as to why you would make things more unfair for absolutely no reason or gain. It's completely irrational. I'm happy to wait.
    Why do you hate men so much? I don't know who it was who broke your heart so long ago but you have to understand that channeling all your hurt into hatred of the whole male gender is not the way to move forward. I hope you'll eventually move past this and that you'll manage to open your heart and learn to love again.

  5. #685
    Women cause drama, end of discussion.

  6. #686
    If I remember correctly, Ensidia used to have a no female restriction as did VANQUISH and a few other top 20 world guilds (During TBC and Wrath). I don't know if they have them anymore, but some top 20 guilds did have that requirement during TBC and Wrath.
    The days of the carrot on a stick mindset are over. 'You want it? It's right there. Just go get it' Has changed to 'Here, Don't eat it all at once, Aw hell, What do I care?'

  7. #687
    Listen, this simple thread about an unorthodox recruiting standard exploded into 35 pages of chauvinism, white knighting, and female empowerment. That is why we believe women are an unnecessary trouble in guilds.

  8. #688
    Girls are doomed to suck.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Zaelsino; 2012-08-18 at 07:45 PM.

  9. #689
    Quote Originally Posted by Choloz View Post
    Good female raiders are as much of a minority as good male raiders. Our raid has 5 females, all of which are solid, dependable, drama-free and able individuals. We've been farming 8/8 HM since 10% on a 10 hour raid week as a 25man guild. They require no "extra maintenance" or "strategy" as you claim.

    If you've had bad experiences with female raiders, then it's probably because you did a poor job recruiting. Or maybe it's just your style of raiding. Being in a military-style guild doesn't exactly mesh well with most girls so your argument doesn't really defend the point people are trying to make in this topic. That being said, this is probably one of more sexist topics I've ever read.. and I pity most of you who think that females only bring a headache. Any *actually good* raiding guild would never discriminate.

    Also, good job sneaking in that guild advertisement.
    So you admit that his "military-style" isn't a place for most girls...

    Then you get at him, for not allowing girls to raid in his guild?

    Okay buddy

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 01:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratanna View Post
    Exhibit A. Classic White knighting
    I have to say this is correct. This is also what I was saying earlier. Even if the woman doesn't cause drama herself, a man will be there to cause drama on her behalf. If you just remove the women from the equation, you remove that as well
    Rest In Peace, World of Warcraft. Subscriber count doesn't matter, WoW has been dead in spirit for a while
    Rest In Peace, Star Wars the Old Republic. SWTOR is a fun RPG, but a bad MMO

  10. #690
    you find one guild out of a potential fucking thousand and complain they don't accept chicks.
    move on
    you clearly wouldn't fit in. if ratanna wants to run a military style no bullshit guild then so be it. most chicks in this game like collecting mounts and pets and doing fun family friend type crap and seems like he's just enforcing a rule so you don't waste your time and they don't waste theirs.

  11. #691
    Back in WotLK, I joined up with a raiding guild with my bear. My mic had been messed up, so the first two nights I was unable to speak in vent, but I was able to listen and we had zero problems because of it. I had a new headset by the next week's raids, but I still kept silent in vent because I had no need to speak. A few weeks in, I asked for clarification on one of the fights, and that's when the raid realized I was not a dude like they had assumed. Immediately the raid leader goes on about it, and demands pics before I was to get any loot. When I declined (because I mean, come on... seriously?) I was booted for "causing drama."

    Worked out fine in the end, because that guild wasn't the place for me anyway. I'd much rather get in and do some actual raiding than listen to "hurr hurr bewbs" in vent. I am now at home in a much better raiding team, in a guild that does not allow any sort of favoritism harassment based on gender. Guilds that don't allow women to join them are fine, if that's what they want more power to them. Just like if a guild only wants people with purple hair, that's their decision.

  12. #692
    We've had e-whores/attention whores in our guild as trials before. They get weeded out REALLY fast early on in the process. We have a lengthy trial process and those type of girl gamers always end up shooting themselves in the foot by trying to flirt with established raiders. There was this one hunter during ICC that gave the other hunter nudes of herself if he'd use a hunter aspect that was a dps loss for them but needed for the encounter as she didn't want to lose dps. She got kicked out really fast.

    We have a male GM and a female officer (no relation). She's a no nonsense, kickass raider. One of the best pvp/pve players in our guild. We have 2 other female raiders who are no nonsense and don't participate in any of the typical gamer girl shit.

  13. #693
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    I would disagree. There's plenty of HC guilds out there who're recruiting female gamers. As far as I remember, there were a couple in Paragon back in the WotLK days. It's not unusual to say the least.

    What many of those who do not take in female gamers, see females as an distraction. This is sometimes true. I've experienced myself females who've been ... overly liked by certain members of the raiding team, reducing their performance somewhat (of the male gamer).

    On the other hand I would rather game with a mix between both genders rather than only males. All of the raiding guilds I've been in over the years had a healthy population of females within the guild who were either hardcore raiders, took care of certain jobs like banking (way back in the days) or were even raid leaders or officers. To those guilds who says "no females", just ignore them and find somewhere else to raid. Most of those guilds are not worth your time anyway. Best of luck.

  14. #694
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadylol View Post
    So you admit that his "military-style" isn't a place for most girls...

    Then you get at him, for not allowing girls to raid in his guild?

    Okay buddy

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-18 at 01:46 PM ----------



    I have to say this is correct. This is also what I was saying earlier. Even if the woman doesn't cause drama herself, a man will be there to cause drama on her behalf. If you just remove the women from the equation, you remove that as well
    I said it's a possibility, yes. I've never sat in on one of his raids so I don't know how things are actually run. My point was that perhaps women don't work for his raid because of the atmosphere. However, since I started raiding in MC I haven't encountered any military-style raids so you can't claim that women don't work for any competitive environment because of his experiences.

    So you could say that removing men from the equation would also solve the problem. You completely contradicted yourself by claiming that women aren't always the problem, but that men cause the issue, too. Get rid of whoever is insecure enough to start drama over a vagina, male or female. I'm simply defending the fact that women are good players and not all of them cause problems. Some of the best healers I've ever raided with happened to be women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratanna View Post
    Exhibit A. Classic White knighting
    Exhibit B. Classic misogynist. To claim that I'm white knighting simply because I defend a women's ability to raid just shows how sexist you are.

  15. #695
    In my exp that is not the case. Consider yourself lucky to have attempted to join a guild that was open and honest about their attitude to girl gamers and move on.

  16. #696
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    because they're (the guilds, for clarification before i get infracted for something retarded) bad

    also practically saying "all hc guilds" is a pretty big generalization

    But any good raider knows that there are scrubs who sound like scrubs because they are scrubs and they don't care that they're scrubs. There are many raiders who are allowed in this day and age to masquerade as hardcore raiders, just because they did some HMs. But real, dedicated players who are true can tell the difference immediately between themselves and others.
    Last edited by Gandrake; 2012-08-18 at 06:50 PM.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by JeanJacket View Post
    Women cause drama, end of discussion.
    Most of them? Big yes, all of them, no idea since I have yet to come across a female who doesn't cause drama, be it outside of WoW or ingame.

    To the OP, to me, since you made the thread, you might have acceptance issues. To me it seems like the classical "they don't like me, I need to vent" type of thing. Why else would you make this thread when it is as simple as accepting that some guilds dont recruit female players and move on with your day. THIS is one of the reason guilds like Ratanna's are like they are.

    Personally, I say, who's business is it if they want or do not want females in their guild/raid team?

    This thread is is so unnecessary and childish because part of growing up is to accept that things are like they are between genders and make the best of what you got in life, to whine about things this is like forcing a child to eat spinach just because they force fed when you were a child.

    Some just dont want it, accept it for crying out loud.

    /THREAD
    Last edited by soliddevil; 2012-08-18 at 07:19 PM.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    What Woobels said. After going through recruitment rules, application and whatnot for several years I personally have never seen a guild straight up refuse females.
    In WOTLK I was in a top 25 N.A raiding guild called "No Chicks Allowed", from the name it's safe to assume there were no females.

    nca-guild.com/

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Rikluz View Post
    Listen, this simple thread about an unorthodox recruiting standard exploded into 35 pages of chauvinism, white knighting, and female empowerment. That is why we believe women are an unnecessary trouble in guilds.
    ^ This right here... Women that are skilled are great assets, but many times its just not worth risking the drama that could be caused by a female in the raid team. I've seen women tear guilds apart, and I have also seen women who want no part in drama and want to help the guild still be problems because of the guys in the guild. Its just not always worth the risk unless you know for a fact that they won't cause drama and that the guys in the raid are mature enough to not cause trouble either.
    The days of the carrot on a stick mindset are over. 'You want it? It's right there. Just go get it' Has changed to 'Here, Don't eat it all at once, Aw hell, What do I care?'

  20. #700
    Deleted
    Girls take any kind of criticism very personal and do not respond constructive. They get mad and those kind of raiders if not an assert.

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