Why do HC raiding guilds say 'no' to females?

[Shiki]

Then you also have 3 raid spots filled by someone that the other 22 (or 7 if you're a 10 man team) people can cause drama over, if and when they try to impress girls

I don't really want to judge the kind of people you raid with based purely on what you're saying here... but seriously, I'd never let those people stay in my guild. I say this as someone who has been a GM of a virtually drama-free guild for 4 years now: If you have "girl" drama, it's your GM's fault. If you have loot drama, it's your GM's fault. Other kinds of drama? GM's fault. If you're the GM, it's your fault.

Throwing three good raiders over the side for the sake of avoiding drama caused by some sloping-forehead mouthbreathers is every bit as stupid as losing three good raiders because of a few drama queens. If you find out that three girls in your guild are prostituting themselves over the internet to your best healer, what do you do? You kick the three girls, because that kind of person will wreck your guild long-term. And if you find out 5-6 of your guildies are slobbering and panting at the sound of a good female raider, you kick them the **** out and find some non-retards to replace them.

The extreme amount of girl drama in guilds these days is related entirely to the fact that modern GMs have forgotten that it's their right and duty to purge the trash from their guilds. If a month goes by without me gkicking 1-2 people I think I've failed as a GM. It's inevitable in WoW that you'll end up with a core that makes up about 50% of your raid group, and you fill the rest of it with the scum that populates your server. If you remember that they're just the trash filling out your raid group, and kick them at the first sign of drama, your life will be a LOT better.

[This name sucks]

I don't really want to judge the kind of people you raid with based purely on what you're saying here... but seriously, I'd never let those people stay in my guild. I say this as someone who has been a GM of a virtually drama-free guild for 4 years now: If you have "girl" drama, it's your GM's fault. If you have loot drama, it's your GM's fault. Other kinds of drama? GM's fault. If you're the GM, it's your fault.

Throwing three good raiders over the side for the sake of avoiding drama caused by some sloping-forehead mouthbreathers is every bit as stupid as losing three good raiders because of a few drama queens. If you find out that three girls in your guild are prostituting themselves over the internet to your best healer, what do you do? You kick the three girls, because that kind of person will wreck your guild long-term. And if you find out 5-6 of your guildies are slobbering and panting at the sound of a good female raider, you kick them the **** out and find some non-retards to replace them.

The extreme amount of girl drama in guilds these days is related entirely to the fact that modern GMs have forgotten that it's their right and duty to purge the trash from their guilds. If a month goes by without me gkicking 1-2 people I think I've failed as a GM. It's inevitable in WoW that you'll end up with a core that makes up about 50% of your raid group, and you fill the rest of it with the scum that populates your server. If you remember that they're just the trash filling out your raid group, and kick them at the first sign of drama, your life will be a LOT better.

If only that worked at higher ranks, too bad there are no such thing as high end players anymore and its more of a competition of who sucks less rather than whos the best.

[Lilija]

In all seriousness tho, I've only been in 3 guilds during my time in WoW (I only leave guilds when it can't be avoided, such as disbanding or the guild dying) and all the guilds have had females. While there were dramas caused by ladies there also have been big dramas caused by the menfolk, and from my personal experience it's very unfair to say women GUARANTEED to cause drama is just... ugh. I understand the want to eliminate unncessary drama but personalites of people matter more than whether they're male or female.

Any guild* worth their salt does not have rules like that.


(*well ok, I understand if someone wants to have all man/all woman/all gay/all something guild just because they want to hang out with only men/women/horses, and that's ok! But that should not stem from "all [x] are [y], no exceptions!!")

I'm glad there are reasonable people like you out there

[Shadylol]

I don't really want to judge the kind of people you raid with based purely on what you're saying here... but seriously, I'd never let those people stay in my guild. I say this as someone who has been a GM of a virtually drama-free guild for 4 years now: If you have "girl" drama, it's your GM's fault. If you have loot drama, it's your GM's fault. Other kinds of drama? GM's fault. If you're the GM, it's your fault.

Throwing three good raiders over the side for the sake of avoiding drama caused by some sloping-forehead mouthbreathers is every bit as stupid as losing three good raiders because of a few drama queens. If you find out that three girls in your guild are prostituting themselves over the internet to your best healer, what do you do? You kick the three girls, because that kind of person will wreck your guild long-term. And if you find out 5-6 of your guildies are slobbering and panting at the sound of a good female raider, you kick them the **** out and find some non-retards to replace them.

The extreme amount of girl drama in guilds these days is related entirely to the fact that modern GMs have forgotten that it's their right and duty to purge the trash from their guilds. If a month goes by without me gkicking 1-2 people I think I've failed as a GM. It's inevitable in WoW that you'll end up with a core that makes up about 50% of your raid group, and you fill the rest of it with the scum that populates your server. If you remember that they're just the trash filling out your raid group, and kick them at the first sign of drama, your life will be a LOT better.

What? Is that really what the casual content has come to? People don't even have real raid teams anymore?

How unfortunate

[Deleted]

Damn, people take this waaaaay to seriously, guilds are different ok??? some dont recruit girls, some dont recruit anyone under 18, some dont recruit arabs, some dont recruit bad players, some dont recruit pvpers, some only recruit RPers, so WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH GUILDS BEING DIFFERENT????

[Shiki]

What? Is that really what the casual content has come to? People don't even have real raid teams anymore?

How unfortunate

I've been operating like this since WoW came out. Cleared every tier of content.

In fact, it was even harder to have a raid full of people who weren't scum back when you needed 40 people. The turnover was amazing.

Edit: Clearly you think I meant my group pugs half of my raid. I mean that 50% of my guild is the "real" people, and the other 50% are people who WILL be gone in a year.

[Lilija]

Plain and simple, more times than not females end up flirting with guys in said guild, only to find out shes married and sleeping with other male guild mates, drama insues and all 7-10 players end up leaving.....all over one drama queen.

Ok, so let me summarize. There is a conflict because some members of the guild of opposite gender sleep together and it's women's fault? Is it only me who sees that there is something wrong in this picture? It's always a bit dangerous when guild members become closer emotionally but it goes both for love and plain friendship. Whenever there is something wrong between them personally it will influence guild's atmosphere. But once again this is not only women that have very close friends in guilds. I've this happen between guys as well.

Not all women are like this, however, as I said, it does happen more than not...for those women/girls who just want to play, it sucks that someone elses behavior makes life hard for you.

The problem isn't someone's behaviour but people believing in stereotypes rather than checking something for their own. In vast majority of personal cases stereotypes are wrong.

[Shadylol]

I've been operating like this since WoW came out. Cleared every tier of content.

In fact, it was even harder to have a raid full of people who weren't scum back when you needed 40 people. The turnover was amazing.

Edit: Clearly you think I meant my group pugs half of my raid. I mean that 50% of my guild is the "real" people, and the other 50% are people who WILL be gone in a year.

Oh, I see what you're saying

I was imagine you finding 13 people from trade chat every week, and just... didn't picture that being very successful

[Azgraal]

Stupid assumption imo... In my guid, hell, in my 10man raiding group we have 2 girls and they dont cause any "problems" at all. In fact i think it's a good thing we don't have a group of 10 blokes pumping male idioticl thoughts into our vent channel while we raid.. xD

[Shadylol]

Ok, so let me summarize. There is a conflict because some members of the guild of opposite gender sleep together and it's women's fault? Is it only me who sees that there is something wrong in this picture? It's always a bit dangerous when guild members become closer emotionally but it goes both for love and plain friendship. Whenever there is something wrong between them personally it will influence guild's atmosphere. But once again this is not only women that have very close friends in guilds. I've this happen between guys as well.


The problem isn't someone's behaviour but people believing in stereotypes rather than checking something for their own. In vast majority of personal cases stereotypes are wrong.

Look at how much arguing there is (45 pages worth), just over this. The guys that run this Guild clearly don't want to deal with any of this, so they just say no women, period

Seems reasonable to me

[Shiki]

Oh, I see what you're saying

I was imagine you finding 13 people from trade chat every week, and just... didn't picture that being very successful

lol. Yeah that would be terrible. I'd quit WoW before I did that.

[Auro]

Amazed this got to so many pages....

//ot

Ive raided in guilds with many females, with few females, and no females through various expansions in wow's career. I've even been in a highly ranked raiding guild with a female GM.

During a raid, women are often outsanding players, just like the men and there is no differentiation.

I can say that women certainly add a flavor to the play experience, especially whenever you're not raiding.

However these experiences can sometimes cause jealousy, drama, epeen waving, etc. between various male members all of which can destroy guild cohesion. I've even seen it happen.

Also there are times when men say things, or would like to say things, to vent about various women problems. And their "bros' are the guys they play wow with. Women being around, or listening in, or whatever can change the dynamic of the conversation and it can just not be as casual say whatever ish.

Its not that they are trying to discrimihate, they just want "boys night" when they play wow, and dont want to have to worry about drama that can come all too easily when you add women to the picture.

[Lilija]

You can pretend that women never cause drama in WoW if you want, but it doesn't change the facts

I don't pretend they don't. I've met few female drama queens myself. But stop pretending that men don't do that as well. They do and they are often worse than women in that :P

Having girls around means there's a higher chance of drama

My current guild has a lot of females. I've never been in a guild that is more calm. The only rare dramas that happened during my time here were caused by men and had nothing to do with females :P So please, do everyone a favour and stop fueling up something that is hardly true and does nothing but harm to people.

[Shadylol]

I don't pretend they don't. I've met few female drama queens myself. But stop pretending that men don't do that as well. They do and they are often worse than women in that :P


My current guild has a lot of females. I've never been in a guild that is more calm. The only rare dramas that happened during my time here were caused by men and had nothing to do with females :P So please, do everyone a favour and stop fueling up something that is hardly true and does nothing but harm to people.

I never said that men can't, or don't cause drama. I just said that removing women from the situation is one way to effectively prevent a high potential for drama

[Lilija]

Look at how much arguing there is (45 pages worth), just over this. The guys that run this Guild clearly don't want to deal with any of this, so they just say no women, period

Seems reasonable to me

Topics about for example "which wow expantion was the best" have even more pages. Do you want to tell me that it's caused by women too? What you said equals saying that II World War was because of women :P Is ignorance really that strong in you?

---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 12:49 PM ----------

I never said that men can't, or don't cause drama. I just said that removing women from the situation is one way to effectively prevent a high potential for drama

You don't have any proof for that appart from some stereotipical thinking. In my experience, the more females in the guild the better the over atmosphere and less stupid dramas. Dramas are caused by immature people which has nothing to do with gender and even not always with age.

[Ceronys]

It's simple... Sorry ladies but look at the most successful guild in WoW history (Nihilum). Kungen (GM/RL/MT of Nihilum) has stated on his live stream that no girls were allowed because girls bring drama.

[Deleted]

You can pretend that women never cause drama in WoW if you want, but it doesn't change the facts

Having girls around means there's a higher chance of drama

I dont think anyone is pretending that women never cause drama in WoW.. At the same time you should be aware that
just as many teenage boys are causing drama that might be effecting guilds..

I would want to turn your little statement around and change it to: 'Having teenage boys around women means there is a higher
chance of drama', since obviously many teenage boys (unfortunately) have problems talking with women.. Its something you
learn at a higher age I suppose..

....just because they want to hang out with only men/women/horses, and that's ok!....

Bob.... lol =)

[anabolicz]

This is what happens when "people with 0% social power think they have police powers on the internet" failing to realize theyve fucked up everything in life they continue like this until a blood vessel gets plugged after gaming 60hours and they die....

[Lilija]

It's simple... Sorry ladies but look at the most successful guild in WoW history (Nihilum). Kungen (GM/RL/MT of Nihilum) has stated on his live stream that no girls were allowed because girls bring drama.

I would question his maturity at the time he said that. No mature person causes drama. No mature person claims drama is caused by one gender in particular.

[Deleted]

This is what happens when "people with 0% social power think they have police powers on the internet" failing to realize theyve fucked up everything in life they continue like this until a blood vessel gets plugged after gaming 60hours and they die....

what does this post even mean