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  1. #101
    I like having other toons around. We're not quite friends yet, but that may grow with time.

    As for the farming competition, there is a problem beyond not wanting to share with people who won't be able to become permanent friends.
    Zone resources are being shared, but the auction houses are not. This will rapidly lead to domination of the resources by the largest of the realms sharing the zone.

    Without zone sharing an active farmer sells her excess on the AH and others get another chance at acquiring it. Lets say she consumes half to level her profession and then sells the other half. When sharing zones the active farmer's surplus gets smaller, and less per capita on her realm's AH. The smallest realms will produce the least amount of surplus per farmer and prices will rise. High price and low supply attracts AH kingpins who will also inflate the price. Crafters on the smaller realms will have to pay more, or work harder, than those on larger realms. That will discourage participation in the profession, lower demand, and discourage collection of that resource. In short order, the largest realms will come dominate that resource as the smaller realms lose discouraged crafters and farmers.

    It seems to me that resource nodes have to be realm dependent, or the auction houses have to be merged. Otherwise, the already struggling realms will have even more troubles.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by LordRayken View Post
    Too bad. Guess you'll have to spend more time online, because that's what the server would be if that amount of people were playing together in the first place. Remember, this merging is due to the fact too many servers do not have the initially considered "balance" in the first place.

    I'll take too many people versus too little.
    Except there's supposed to be "off peak" times where I can deliberately have more alone time. I don't want the game automatically getting rid of those times. That DOES ruin balance.

  3. #103
    What a lot of people are angry about isn't the fact that they hate cross realm zones, the very idea of it. They hate the way that Blizzard went about implementing it. It seems to be a very unfinished and crude version of something that has huge potential but for now it seems like it's a beta thing and causing WAY too many problems to be on live servers at this point. It just feels like live servers are more often becoming a test environment (I know, blizzard is always testing stuff on live but it's usually pretty functional) and the actual gameplay is suffering even though these things have a great potential to make this game feel MUCH better. Not sure there is any other way to test it at this point, but it's pretty fucking painful right now.

  4. #104
    I see a lot of people talking about this being akin to treating the symptoms of a low pop server and they need to just merge servers. However, merging servers is the symptom. So you merge one set of servers, then you have to do it again. And again.

    A very apt analogy to CRZ is cancer (having done some cancer research during college this isn't in bad taste but very accurate). When cancer first started appearing in mass, people treated the tumors. Later, they began to treat the cellular response. And now, they are working on targeted gene therapy with local application (find the cells prevent the spread). Essentially, it went from tumors to realizing that you need to look at the actual cause of the problem.

    Now, back to wow and CRZ. Instead of constantly having to merge servers, the most elegant solution is to simply remove the need for indecent server function (in terms of gaming experience). That is what they are slowly applying. And no doubt it will take time. But if you are on the servers actually experiencing CRZ in mass, you will also note that interactions are occurring that are not openly discussed (capital city interactions, etc). Once you have the seamless single world, you have no need to worry about the server merges. Merging servers isn't a solution, its a symptom. The treatment however, is slower then one might like.
    Last edited by Rosse88; 2012-09-09 at 05:16 AM. Reason: reworded something to make a tad more sense

  5. #105
    Hmm.. So everyone is whineing on this CRZ, and how annoying it is to have "full zones" etc.
    I dont get it, can someone please explain to me, my server is about 90/10% horde (and full). I have never seen another person in another zone from a diffrent server.
    And while im lvling my alliance, i still see 90% horde + me in a zone. So i guess this change did nothing to my server since its already overcrowded, and they didnt do anything to the faction imbalance because its fucked (full server).
    So i dont really see the "problem" or "point" with this "change" at all
    “The worst thing I can be is the same as everybody else. I hate that.”

  6. #106
    Brewmaster MouseD's Avatar
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    Add this to the mix if this keep being allowed to happen .....more and more will be upset....with DMF.....add in the Fishing Derby in Dalaran was totally unplayable to many realms today due to CRZ......but do read this little link by someone on the blizzard forums.....and this is only the tip of the iceberg

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6522892941

  7. #107
    Elemental Lord Sierra85's Avatar
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    maybe its time to just do away with "servers" and let everything be one big joint world... of warcraft.

    If blizz didnt have a source of revenue from server transfers, i think this would already be the case.
    Last edited by Sierra85; 2012-09-09 at 05:59 AM. Reason: spelling
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostSkull View Post
    I like having other toons around. We're not quite friends yet, but that may grow with time.

    As for the farming competition, there is a problem beyond not wanting to share with people who won't be able to become permanent friends.
    Zone resources are being shared, but the auction houses are not. This will rapidly lead to domination of the resources by the largest of the realms sharing the zone.

    Without zone sharing an active farmer sells her excess on the AH and others get another chance at acquiring it. Lets say she consumes half to level her profession and then sells the other half. When sharing zones the active farmer's surplus gets smaller, and less per capita on her realm's AH. The smallest realms will produce the least amount of surplus per farmer and prices will rise. High price and low supply attracts AH kingpins who will also inflate the price. Crafters on the smaller realms will have to pay more, or work harder, than those on larger realms. That will discourage participation in the profession, lower demand, and discourage collection of that resource. In short order, the largest realms will come dominate that resource as the smaller realms lose discouraged crafters and farmers.

    It seems to me that resource nodes have to be realm dependent, or the auction houses have to be merged. Otherwise, the already struggling realms will have even more troubles.
    Hmmm... Is it possible to trade with people on the other zones? Because it seems to me there's a lot of potential there. Make a second account on one of those low pop realms, buy mats on your high pop/low AH cost realm, trade them over and post them on the low pop realm.

    Or does it work like LFD?
    I'd really like to get my Special Snowflake Feat of Strength now. Just because I'm special. - Scummer

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    maybe its time to just do away with "servers" and let everything be one big joint world... of warcraft.

    If blizz didnt have a source of revenue from server transfers, i think this would already be the case.
    With blizzard saying there are about 4-5million people playing WOW in NA alone I think their servers would crash, unless there is not that many people actually playing and blizz and their 9m subs number is actually wrong

    The only thing I hate right now is not being able to q for TB while in a cross realm as it won't port me I have to be in Sw

  10. #110
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    A 'messy start'? they've been screwing around with it for MONTHS... yes... MONTHS... on beta... in fact... there are MORE BUGS. than there were with CRZ on beta.
    There's a grand total of two North American realms on Beta: one PvE and already extremely busy, the other a PvP that I can't say anything about since I haven't been on it. Not nearly enough to actually do more than a rough pass at something like this, particularly with regard to the time zone business which I see as the primary problem since it causes a lot of unintended consequences (or not-well-thought-through consequences...see Dalaran fishing tournaments).

    So yeah, messy start when you begin to go real world with it with many realms, lots of time zones and a collection of realm environments with a much wider set of conditions.

    ---------- Post added 2012-09-09 at 12:55 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MouseD View Post
    Add this to the mix if this keep being allowed to happen .....more and more will be upset....with DMF.....add in the Fishing Derby in Dalaran was totally unplayable to many realms today due to CRZ......but do read this little link by someone on the blizzard forums.....and this is only the tip of the iceberg

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6522892941
    Looked at the thread in the link. Apparently a lot of people had a good time with the DMF bunny. The realms I saw mentioned [Sargeras, Firetree, Scilla] are all PvP realms. So what's the problem with this again?

    Granted the fishing derby and time zones is a problem. That's more a bug that's likely fixable than some sort of catastrophe that will bring unending pain to Azerothian fisherpeople everywhere. But it clearly needs a fix. I'm not sure that that by itself is a good reason to call it all off if it's fixable.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2012-09-09 at 07:57 AM.

  11. #111
    what is really dumb about all of it is they spent millions wrting the code to do cross server bllsht, instead of spending that money making better and larger content, and just saying "hey we are close x realms, you get a free transfer for every toon on that realm to x realm" and move people off the dead realms. The do not spend money making cross server crap no-one likes, and they save money but not having to run as many servers.


    Timed things are going to be completely broken, how you supposed to do a fishing tourny when you never know what time zone BB is in. The Cross zone is an epic fail...

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Except there's supposed to be "off peak" times where I can deliberately have more alone time. I don't want the game automatically getting rid of those times. That DOES ruin balance.
    lol, off peak time doesn't ruin anything. Off peak time is artificial. It only exists because you play on a server separated from the rest of the player base. You guys are just whining, whining, whining because you want to get all the veins and all the goody pets, and now you have to compete.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaq62VCcnew
    Nevar 4get Exarch Cyn.
    The Horde and The Alliance haven't changed since Warcraft 2. Pandaren are the first true change to either faction for 12 years.

  13. #113
    Let's take a theoretical and simplified look at the economy of a zone:

    Before CRZ:

    Low-pop
    - 100 nodes available
    - 100 players playing
    - 10 players mining
    => 1 node per player (in the AH/economy)
    => 10 nodes per farmer

    High-pop
    - 100 nodes available
    - 1000 players playing
    - 100 players mining
    => 0.1 nodes per player (in the AH/economy)
    => 1 node per farmer



    With CRZ:

    Low-pop
    - 100 nodes available
    - 1000 players playing, of which only 100 are from the server
    - 100 players mining, of which only 10 are from the server
    => 0.1 nodes per player (in the AH/economy)
    => 1 node per farmer

    High-pop
    - 100 nodes available
    - 1000 players playing
    - 100 players mining
    => 0.1 nodes per player (in the AH/economy)
    => 1 node per farmer


    All servers
    - Fun

  14. #114
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seegtease View Post
    Except there's supposed to be "off peak" times where I can deliberately have more alone time. I don't want the game automatically getting rid of those times. That DOES ruin balance.
    I'm going to assume for the purposes of discussion that the business with time zones swapping around is something that will be fixed. You can certainly disagree if you like but the unintended consequences are severe enough that I tend to believe that Blizzard will do something about it. It might not be what you expect but I expect them to fix it.

    In that case, you may still have your 'down time'. If they limit cross-realm zones to those within your home time zone, 3:00 a.m. will be 3:00 a.m. Problem solved.

    I can also foresee them doing something clever by combining all U.S. time zones (4) into one thing for realm groupings and providing some stability for server time that way. In any case, you'll likely find some time in which things will be less busy than usual but probably you won't have a whole zone to yourself. I suspect the main thing will be to get some stability on the realm clock, not have stuff match up exactly to your home time.

    The best thing to do is wait and see what they say which has been promised and should be coming along soon. Actually I find the current near-hysteria over this to be quite exaggerated. Yes, there are bugs and yes, we are beta testing it. I'm patient enough to wait and see what they say though before drawing any lines in the sand.

  15. #115
    the coolest time leveling i ever had was hellfire peninsula in tbc. i liked how it was overrun by the whole level 60 server population.

    felt like an army invading outland.

    awesome.

    and i found a party for every group quest.

    had to go somewhere? no problem, the path to get there was already cleaned.

    had to do killquests with slow respawn? no problem, just invite other players to your party. (btw aren't most players complaining they miss the social aspect of the game as it was earlier?)

    had to do quests with fast respawn and the mobs killing you, because it are too much? no problem, invite some other players.

    had a question regarding a specific quest? simply ask in /1 and get an answer.

    is mob slaying too boring? just start a chat in /1.


    by the way. i NEVER heard someone complain "omg there are too few nodes".
    Last edited by WurstKaeseSzenario; 2012-09-09 at 09:57 AM.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Yes there is more to it than what you see, MUCH more.

    But frankly I don't care explaining it. I'll just give you some keywords and juggle with them:

    - populated MMORPG in every zone (Merging servers don't populate spread world zones at all).
    - Battletag says Hi
    - future MMO development without realms
    - playing with 1 million people instead of 500 on each server cluster solves pretty much the problems of present day MMO single server play.
    THIS.

    CRZ is one of the best additions to the WoW. the game feels a live again !

    i always enjoyed playing a new mmo just because i feel like i am playing with people again. groups everywhere / world pvp happening out of no where / competition on spawns/mats. this is what an MMO is all about.
    I do not want to xrealm and leave my guild/friends behind just because my faction isnt as booming as it used to be. I really LOVE this change.

    low pop realms are not working as intended they shouldn't be dead/empty and i no longer feel that emptiness when going outside anymore.
    GREAT change.

  17. #117
    Stood in the Fire TyralisUH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceshigh View Post
    What a lot of people are angry about isn't the fact that they hate cross realm zones, the very idea of it. They hate the way that Blizzard went about implementing it. It seems to be a very unfinished and crude version of something that has huge potential but for now it seems like it's a beta thing and causing WAY too many problems to be on live servers at this point. It just feels like live servers are more often becoming a test environment (I know, blizzard is always testing stuff on live but it's usually pretty functional) and the actual gameplay is suffering even though these things have a great potential to make this game feel MUCH better. Not sure there is any other way to test it at this point, but it's pretty fucking painful right now.
    How is it painful. It's pretty simple to understand. You have a Real ID friend in your group, they are in your realm except big cities. If you are in their group, you are on their realm. What is painful and unfinished ? Stop whining.

  18. #118
    The Undying Wildtree's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with Cross-Realm zones. I sort of like the zones better when they are alive.. However, Blizzard needs to get them debugged. Discovered one major bug yesterday.
    Our main realm is Area 52. The woman tries to get the Salty title, and works on the fishing tournament. Now comes the kicker......
    She goes to Northrend, soloing the ICC 5 mans. I did some other stuff, and reminded her to not forget the tournament start.
    She's like, I got plenty of time, don't worry.
    I'm like, I dunno about that, you got 15 minutes left til start.
    She goes like WHAT?? So we compared realm times... Mind, we are both on Area 52. East coast realm. It was 1:45 realm time.
    But that was only true for the old world, we discovered.
    Her realm time shown was 11:45. that makes it Mountain Time. Northrend was apparently phased into cross-realm zone.
    Dalaran itself remained on our realms accurate time. Just the sub zones in Northrend shown 2 hours behind.
    Makes the fishing tournament likely pretty much impossible to do.
    She didn't wanna hang around for another 2 hours and check if it would make any difference.

    It's just silly. If they cross-realming, they should keep the populations of the same time zones together.

    One funny thing I discovered too.. Apparently Blizz just turned off the switch and hides the weapon stats.. Entering the cross realm shown me the skill stats for the weapons again. The toon I used to enter had a skill of 98 for two handed maces. made me smile. Good old days, when weapon skills mattered.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Traknel View Post
    Hmmm... Is it possible to trade with people on the other zones? Because it seems to me there's a lot of potential there. Make a second account on one of those low pop realms, buy mats on your high pop/low AH cost realm, trade them over and post them on the low pop realm.

    Or does it work like LFD?
    I haven't tried a cross-realm trade. I bet they don't allow it. However, if they did, it would make the problem worse since the lower price goods from other realms would bankrupt anyone who did go through the trouble of farming up a surplus.

  20. #120
    Fact one: if you don't like people in your MMORPG, don't play mmorpg's

    Fact two: merging severs doesn't solve that zones are fully manned. Cross server open world zones do.

    Fact three: not a single sever population can man ALL present day content 24/7. Cross server mechanics do.

    Fact four: mobs and ores etc spawn with a formula' more people more spawns.

    Fact five: since SC2 and DIABLO 3 Blizzard regroups all their players per region on one cluster server, this is just the next implementation.

    Fact six: fans don't be fooled' the most "anti" reactions come from the usual Blizzard bashers/haters.

    So now that the competition is in the ropes with this new " cross server open world play without loading screens" it is all out attack at the moment.

    I smile: this feature just widened the gap between WoW and the wannabees.


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