Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Durzlla]

It was pretty obvious before the change too.

Nah before hand at least when they became downed they would look like their clone and it'd be confusing, now i'll just aim for the idiot swimming away from me...

[Kelesti]

Nah before hand at least when they became downed they would look like their clone and it'd be confusing, now i'll just aim for the idiot swimming away from me...

So don't move? The bug was that it was the ground-based Deception on our ground skills. Seeing as we'd plant ourselves on invisible ground, take a seat, and spam, yeah it was obvious which one was the real one.

This is at least consistent.

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 08:33 AM ----------

@Kelesti - Can you now cast Mind Stab on the move or does it still roots you in place?

From button push to damage to free movement again, the whole thing feels like a half second. It's still a telegraph for people to dodge (like Bull's Rush or Eviscerate are), but it's super fast.
I'm grateful for the fact that you can't RP walk to the side and "dodge" it anymore, nor does it keep you stuck for over a second to pull your sword out of the ground. Good good things.


@Zito: what could you give me for a decent S/S--> GS build to mess around with? Probably couldn't afford to give up Chaos Armor stacking for dungeons, but it might be nice to see what you could come up with (you're better at this than me).

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 08:35 AM ----------

Well after lots of advice from the lovely Kelesti in-game I now find myself favouring sword/sword pretty much most of the time...jumping to sceptre only if there's lots of things on me and I need a distraction.

Sword/Sword is fairly awesome. It definitely takes some getting used to in how to survive, but it's so worth it. I'm glad you're enjoying it!

[ayimera]

Yay, so glad to hear about mind stab! I've really come to like GS, even if it's not "the best" - it synergizes with my playstyle. Looking forward to testing the change.

[Durzlla]

God everyone is missing the "bad Mesmer" part.... And underwater I always saw both of them as swimming in one place...

---------- Post added 2012-09-14 at 10:12 AM ----------

Yay, so glad to hear about mind stab! I've really come to like GS, even if it's not "the best" - it synergizes with my playstyle. Looking forward to testing the change.

I personally do not like the great sword but I'm eager to see how fast the new animation is!!

[Kelesti]

I personally do not like the great sword but I'm eager to see how fast the new animation is!!

It's fast. Like really fast. So is the 1-animation (a 50% attack speed increase?)

God everyone is missing the "bad Mesmer" part.... And underwater I always saw both of them as swimming in one place...

This is the "you're being bad by not noticing the bug" thing. The Mesmer that was using this skill was not swimming in one place, but sitting down. It actually was coded identically to the above ground version. It was really obvious which one was the fake, and there was no escape from it (not a bad mesmer).

And if you want to just stay still after using the now bug fixed skill, you can. The point is that it doesn't make you sit down on an invisible floor, locking you down as if you're on land anymore. Stop looking for an opportinity to call people bad, Durz. It's an attitude that's not lending credence to any point you try and make (especially when in this case you're wrong), nor is it actually wanted/appreciated here.

[Durzlla]

It's fast. Like really fast. So is the 1-animation (a 50% attack speed increase?)

This is the "you're being bad by not noticing the bug" thing. The Mesmer that was using this skill was not swimming in one place, but sitting down. It actually was coded identically to the above ground version. It was really obvious which one was the fake, and there was no escape from it (not a bad mesmer).

And if you want to just stay still after using the now bug fixed skill, you can. The point is that it doesn't make you sit down on an invisible floor, locking you down as if you're on land anymore. Stop looking for an opportinity to call people bad, Durz. It's an attitude that's not lending credence to any point you try and make (especially when in this case you're wrong), nor is it actually wanted/appreciated here.

Well sorry for not noticing the enemy Mesmer was sitting down in the horde of sharks in the only underwater pvp map.... And I'm not looking for an excuse to call someone bad, if I were I'd be pulling a drake and quitting people out of context.

I think it's absolutely a good change though, I'd imagine how much it'd suck to be unable to swim to the surface after launching your "escape imminent death" skill....

PS: how good is the phantasmal rogue? Ive been told that its really really good but I've never een downed long enough to try it out...

[Kelesti]

Phantasmal Rogue will try to get behind a target when possible, and it hurts quite a bit (its backstab is designed around hitting from behind). It also gains the +damage and +fury traits. Just, like most illusions, it doesn't have a lot of health. I'm pretty sure it has access to the +health trait, but not Signet of Illusions because you're downed.

But that still doesn't prevent it from dying when focused by one major attack from pretty much anything. And if it can't be behind a target, does about as much as a warlock when the only debuffs are your own (i.e. can't kill anything by itself to hope to save you).

[Durzlla]

Phantasmal Rogue will try to get behind a target when possible, and it hurts quite a bit (its backstab is designed around hitting from behind). It also gains the +damage and +fury traits. Just, like most illusions, it doesn't have a lot of health. I'm pretty sure it has access to the +health trait, but not Signet of Illusions because you're downed.

But that still doesn't prevent it from dying when focused by one major attack from pretty much anything. And if it can't be behind a target, does about as much as a warlock when the only debuffs are your own (i.e. can't kill anything by itself to hope to save you).

Ah so if they are to busy going for your downed clone you'll be able to rally (most likely) from the rogue?

[Kelesti]

Ah so if they are to busy going for your downed clone you'll be able to rally (most likely) from the rogue?

Between that and confusion spam, pretty much, yeah.

[zito]

@Zito: what could you give me for a decent S/S--> GS build to mess around with? Probably couldn't afford to give up Chaos Armor stacking for dungeons, but it might be nice to see what you could come up with (you're better at this than me).

GS as the secondary weapon? I'll give it a go but GS is all about getting further away from your target so it doesn't really synergize with melee but I'll give a crack at it.

On one condition you make a guide for block since your so obsessed with it.

On a side note, the lack of mantra utility is painful. MoR is ok with the charge up heal but there is really no reason to waste 3 seconds to charge up pain and it offers nothing but burst dps in a group which is irrelevant in boss fights.

[Kelesti]

GS as the secondary weapon? I'll give it a go but GS is all about getting further away from your target so it doesn't really synergize with melee but I'll give a crack at it.

Wewt, thanks love. Looking forward to it!

[zito]

List of mesmer skills that are just lacking:

Mass invisibility
Portal (mainly because of its duration and small amount of charges)
Phantasmal disenchanter (omg sucks so bad)
Signet of inspiration
Signet of midnight (passive)
All mantra (for group utility)

---------- Post added 2012-09-15 at 01:19 AM ----------

Wewt, thanks love. Looking forward to it!

I want that block guide!

[zito]

What I wanna try:

Trait that lowers fall damage and spawns a Chaos Storm when you take falling damage.
Portal.
High WvW keep wall.

Put a portal up top, fall, put portal on ground, port up, fall, port up, fall, port up, fall, until portal runs out.

Would it spawn a ton of storms or just overwrite the old one, I wonder?

It would make tons of storms however you have a melting pot already in WvWvW and its less obvious, nobody is going to stand in it and portal has about 3 charges.

[DrakeWurrum]

All mantra (for group utility)

Could you specify on this?

Because I can say the exact same thing about Cantrips and Glyphs, which are both reallyfuckingstrong (especially when traited), but are purely "selfish" in that they completely lack group utility (not counting the obvious "extra effects" that certain of them do).

I would like to see them buffed to be more effective, but I don't think mantras need to have group utility. I just haven't played Scholars enough (none of them) to get a good feel for what mantras "need"

[zito]

Could you specify on this?

Mantras only effect yourself except one, which is the daze mantra which interrupts for the group. Outside that however no other mantras have group utility.

[DrakeWurrum]

Mantras only effect yourself except one, which is the daze mantra which interrupts for the group. Outside that however no other mantras have group utility.

What I meant by "specify" is to specifically share why that's a bad thing. I edited my post above to be more clear on that, though.

Mantras at least have the Restorative Mantras trait. Is it too weak?
Would a different/additional effect be more useful?

[zito]

What I meant by "specify" is to specifically share why that's a bad thing. I edited my post above to be more clear on that, though.

I just think out of 3 utility skills and if you wanted to make a mantra build it would only hinder the group so to use a mantra and to help the group people only use maybe 1 mantra and the other 2 some other utility skill however using 1 mantra makes getting all those cool useful mantra skills (like the triple use one) a waste because it cost so many points. Limiting customization and overall group efficiency via traits in my opinion. I haven't seen a mesmer use a mantra in PvE... ever... and I have grouped with 5 mesmers in a dungeon....

I think a minor buff to it to promote group utility, like half its effect shared to nearby allies would help promote its usage.

---------- Post added 2012-09-15 at 02:03 AM ----------

omg kel i hate you so much, im banging my head against a wall with making your build...

[Durzlla]

List of mesmer skills that are just lacking:

Mass invisibility
Portal (mainly because of its duration and small amount of charges)
Phantasmal disenchanter (omg sucks so bad)
Signet of inspiration
Signet of midnight (passive)
All mantra (for group utility)

---------- Post added 2012-09-15 at 01:19 AM ----------



I want that block guide!

don't you touch my mass invis!! It's soooooooooo sexy and has such a short CD!! It's AWESOME!! Mantras seem fine, I see them as the mesmers version of glyphs, if you're hell bent on using them you can make them more supporty but that's not their main goal.... And signet of inspiration is awesome too.... Why do you dislike my favorite skills zito?!? WHY?!?!

[DrakeWurrum]

I think a minor buff to it to promote group utility, like half its effect shared to nearby allies would help promote its usage.

Eh, I think that would be too much. I don't know why it's necessarily the case that we MUST pick utilities that are beneficial to the group with every possible build. I think as we play this game more, we'll come to recognize "roles" for players to have in dungeons, much as players on LoL teams have "roles" on LoL teams, while every player still needs to be somewhat self-sufficient.

[Durzlla]

Eh, I think that would be too much. I don't know why it's necessarily the case that we MUST pick utilities that are beneficial to the group with every possible build. I think as we play this game more, we'll come to recognize "roles" for players to have in dungeons, much as players on LoL teams have "roles" on LoL teams, while every player still needs to be somewhat self-sufficient.

Boom!! Nailed it!! As long as you play like you do LoL you'll be fine, he'll I've even seen ranger "carry" builds where they use the digits of snowballing to become unstoppable forces lol, it's pretty great!