Mesmer Discussion Thread

[Durzlla]

While this is clutch for a burst-burn move (especially a non-interrupting one), it's still possible to do with zero trait support behind it, kind of ruining the justification for the full "shatter spec" in terms of viability on this.

Which would then lead me into rants on why the Scepter's a broken weapon that needs Power scaling and attack speed boosted, yadda yadda yadda…

Anyways, I think it's dumb at how people fool themselves into thinking spamming three clone Mind Wrack and minion-bombing is effective, but it's not really their fault that te system itself is binary and counterproductive at anything. As to testing the Firestorm killing clones that still explode, I haven't been able to test that, seeing as well I don't push that button often enough to notice/care.

Ya, I personally feel mind wrack isn't meant for dealing damage regularly but more as a final kick into the grave, I personally rely on Cry of Frustration and Diversion a lot more then the others, I rarely find distortion being used due to the shear amount of clones I have around me at all times.

[Valeron]

I use mind wrack kind of like Durzilla does, when the mob has around 10-15% of health left and I just want to finish it off.

[Kelesti]

I use mind wrack kind of like Durzilla does, when the mob has around 10-15% of health left and I just want to finish it off.

This is more thanfine, I mean they're going to die with the mob anyways. That's not what I'm getting at. I'm getting that people seem to put so much emphasis on Mind Wrack3, that they trait it and try to turn it ino a rotational ability, which goes against just how good Phantasms are.

The misleading tooltip isn't helping anyone, of course.

[Ralamus]

Yes, this is true, I think it increments as a 30% increase from 1 clone's damage to 2, then only a 20% increase from that value when you shatter all 3. I wouldn't let it put you off though, I think more than anything the damage is where it's supposed to be at three [or four if you take 30pt illusions] then the downward scaling is just a fail-safe if some of your clones happen to die, you'll be punished a little less damage-wise for shattering less, but mind wrack still puts out decent damage

i kinda figured something like this had to be happening, always noticed they felt like they hit for less when i had 3 out even though the tooltip said that they should be doing more. good to know

[DrakeWurrum]

@all this Mind Wrack talk:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Wrack

Damage listed is the total damage; with more illusions the damage per illusion goes down.

Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.

[zito]

@all this Mind Wrack talk:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Wrack



Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.

Mind wreck should be redesigned in itself. I think the concept of damage shattering will be broken with phantasms the way they are now. I use daze and distortion more then anything. Maybe have it grant protection for yourself or something.

[DrakeWurrum]

Mind wreck should be redesigned in itself. I think the concept of damage shattering will be broken with phantasms the way they are now. I use daze and distortion more then anything. Maybe have it grant protection for yourself or something.

Frankly, the problem is just that phantasms are shatterable at all. On paper it seems like an interesting decision, but only if the numbers are effectively balanced so that the sudden burst of a big BOOM shatter actually proves more useful than just leaving as many phantasms alive as possible, and only if the clones and phantasms don't interfere with each other.

[Kelesti]

@all this Mind Wrack talk:


Find myself thinking they just fully intend for this skill to not really be that useful.

It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?

[DrakeWurrum]

It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?

i.e. not really that useful in the long run. I haven't played my Mesmer nearly as much as my Guardian or Thief or Elementalist, so maybe it improves higher up, but on short-lived mobs, I'd rather just blow them up without illusions at all. Much less hassle that way.

[zito]

It's useful as an AoE, on short lived mobs...?

Iwarden and Izerker

[Kelesti]

i.e. not really that useful in the long run. I haven't played my Mesmer nearly as much as my Guardian or Thief or Elementalist, so maybe it improves higher up, but on short-lived mobs, I'd rather just blow them up without illusions at all. Much less hassle that way.

Gearing full toughness like I have (melee), just swinging blindly without illusions is possible, but it takes awhile. However! Mirror Images + Illusionary Leap (no teleport) -> Mind Wrack, Teleport in, Blurred Frenzy through the immobilize, cleave down what's left...

Apart from bugged as sin Warden, it's really the only burst AoE we have (with Chaos Storm being the only non-target restricted one at all, and that's not really "burst").

Iwarden and Izerker

Berserker's useless as an AoE more than one swing. Can't be aimed to ensure optimal damage output, and then the Target dies between its recharge and it's on its longer-than-my-ex-could-last cooldown. It has potential, but it's really limited in its application.

[Ralamus]

i like the idea of whoever posted about phantasms having special effects when shattered. they should at least do a lot more shatter damage than clones.

[zito]

i like the idea of whoever posted about phantasms having special effects when shattered. they should at least do a lot more shatter damage than clones.

My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.

[Ralamus]

My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.

yeah, that definitely sounds like a nice idea too.

[Fenlnir]

I can't even think of the last time I Mind Wracked anything. That seems like it does it a change.

[zito]

yeah, that definitely sounds like a nice idea too.

It of course was shot down on the main site 3 times during beta for being... idk not a lot of phantasms? Like the current design is better...

[Ralamus]

It of course was shot down on the main site 3 times during beta for being... idk not a lot of phantasms? Like the current design is better...

hopefully they make some sort of positive adjustment to it, i believe they will though. they've been pretty good with updates and such so far

[DrakeWurrum]

My suggestion is have 5 illusion slots. 3 are clones, 1 is "weapon" phantasm one is "utility" phantasm. You can not shatter your phantasms. Phantasms come with an added chain attack (like our blocks) which either shatter or add a different effect. Like wardens chain will be you can teleport to your current location (since it deflects projectiles). Utility phantasms will work the same way except they are Idefender and Idisenchanter which are lesser phantasms and should not really compete for a spot.

This makes phantasms less "use on cd" and more "use when you need it". Do I need a deflector or do I need a cripple? Do I need more damage from the amount of conditions I have or do I need more burst? All things that should be considered ARE NOT, currently its use on cd which we shouldn't.

Sounds MUCH more mechanically interesting, yes. Though ideally, they would also add a third utility Phantasm to choose from.

It's almost too bad there's no Phantasmal Bomber.

[zito]

Sounds MUCH more mechanically interesting, yes. Though ideally, they would also add a third utility Phantasm to choose from.

It's almost too bad there's no Phantasmal Bomber.

Another phantasm wouldn't be out of the question however they need to fix Idefender so you don't have to be next to it to get its buff and Idisenchanter needs to not suck.

[Durzlla]

Zito if they were to do what you want they'd need to nerf phantasams... and frankly i'd rather they didn't because i prefer dropping a clone (which greatly helps with survivability unless i'm using duelist, yes duelist not warden) in exchange for damage... like sure your idea is all nice and sparkly and all the mesmers would foam at the mouth about how they can have both their sword and shield but really, it just seems like shit. I mean your idea flat out destroys the phantasm build, like it can not even be salvaged from that wreck, not to mention the whole "Who the hell brings utility phantasms anyway?" argument, essentially making a worthless slot that no one but like 2 people would ever use.

As for the whole "Oh no shattering phantasms is awful blah blah blah blah blah" seriously give me a break, you just think it's awful because you either A) don't know what you're talking about, B) seem to be under the illusion that a phantasm is far greater then a shatter in any scenario, or C) Don't seem to pay attention to the fact you can shatter your phantasms right before they die and get more of an effect out of them...

I don't feel like repeating myself yet again so i'm just going to leave my post at that... if you want to see my scenarios for why you'd shatter phantasms just go read back on it...