Pandaren are a nice touch, but not made for Warcraft

[Silver-Fox]

I have to say I love the Pandaren. The work Blizzard put into them with the art, animation, voice acting and lore make them very animated and alive. More so than the other races I believe.

Whether they belong in Warcraft, well, that's up for debate. I'm sort-of on the fence. I think they are a great race. Animated, alive, detailed. More so than you would expect for "panda-people" per say.

However I think why they can seem out of place is not because of their production values but I think because they echo an eastern/asian art style while most of Warcraft is based on traditional western fantasy. Hence the Pandaren are the exception or the break from the traditional.

[Chrysia]

I have to say I love the Pandaren. The work Blizzard put into them with the art, animation, voice acting and lore make them very animated and alive. More so than the other races I believe.

Whether they belong in Warcraft, well, that's up for debate. I'm sort-of on the fence. I think they are a great race. Animated, alive, detailed. More so than you would expect for "panda-people" per say.

However I think why they can seem out of place is not because of their production values but I think because they echo an eastern/asian art style while most of Warcraft is based on traditional western fantasy. Hence the Pandaren are the exception or the break from the traditional.

You have the Night Elves with a very East Asian architecture, as well as a Bushido-like code of honor and fighting.

You have Jamaican trolls, which are hardly "Western."

You have the Russian Draenei.

You have the Gnomes with no real cultural background, just "technophiles."

Yes, the Tauren give off Native American vibes, but it could just as easily be any of a number of nomadic, tribal cultures throughout history and across the world.

Orcs don't really have a clear delineation for their cultural heritage. Huns or other "barbarian" cultures may be the closest fit, but it's not real clear.

Humans, Undead, Worgen, and Dwarves are the only ones that are really clearly "western."

[Silver-Fox]

You have the Night Elves with a very East Asian architecture, as well as a Bushido-like code of honor and fighting.

You have Jamaican trolls, which are hardly "Western."

You have the Russian Draenei.

You have the Gnomes with no real cultural background, just "technophiles."

Yes, the Tauren give off Native American vibes, but it could just as easily be any of a number of nomadic, tribal cultures throughout history and across the world.

Orcs don't really have a clear delineation for their cultural heritage. Huns or other "barbarian" cultures may be the closest fit, but it's not real clear.

Humans, Undead, Worgen, and Dwarves are the only ones that are really clearly "western."

All true, yes and I agree.

The point I'm making really is that we're so familiar with all those races that Pandaren feel out of place because we've never really seen much if anything of them until now. Prior to mists, without a statement from Blizzard, their existence was debatable.

Hence I think Blizzard wanted to make them feel different. Make them feel apart from the Horde and Alliance races to feel borderline 'alien' to players to make experience all the more... um, "fresh" I guess.

[Thage]

They gained traction because of fanboys as was previously mentioned. They discussed the Panda race at length in the CE DVD. They were never intended for WoW. They were only an April fool's prank that gained transaction once people liked how they looked and a Blizzard artist continued to create artwork for them.

An April fool's joke ballooned into a joke of new playable race. Unfortunately, it is here to stay.

In other words, it gained traction because the fanbase really liked the idea? How dare Blizzard include the most-often-requested race in the game's history in an expansion that feels a lot like an apology letter for Cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 01:47 AM ----------

clearly you overlook all the undead and even lich's that have been present in the World of since 1..

Pandaren had more lore in BC's days thanks to the tabletop RPG than draenei have had since Warcraft 3. Thanks to Pandaria, they have more lore than the Gilnean worgen, gnomes, Bilgewater goblins, tauren, Darkspear Trolls, and several NPC races like the val'kyr and the tuskarr.

Pandaria being so markedly different from the rest of Azeroth is the result of ten thousand years' worth of cultural evolution in complete isolation, in a situation where emotional extremes materialize as powerful, hostile entities that go on a rampage and damage the land. The entire idea is that it's a jarring difference so that the Alliance-Horde war igniting in 5.1 is put in even stronger relief than it would in the Shattering-torn Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

Also, Chen being optional is irrelevant, he's been canon for as long as the Lich King has--and until recently (as in, within the last two years recently) the RPG was canon, and that RPG was a treasure trove of pandaren lore (some of which has been cannibalized into Pandaria's canon).

[Chrysia]

Pandaren had more lore in BC's days thanks to the tabletop RPG than draenei have had since Warcraft 3. Thanks to Pandaria, they have more lore than the Gilnean worgen, gnomes, Bilgewater goblins, tauren, Darkspear Trolls, and several NPC races like the val'kyr and the tuskarr.

Pandaria being so markedly different from the rest of Azeroth is the result of ten thousand years' worth of cultural evolution in complete isolation, in a situation where emotional extremes materialize as powerful, hostile entities that go on a rampage and damage the land. The entire idea is that it's a jarring difference so that the Alliance-Horde war igniting in 5.1 is put in even stronger relief than it would in the Shattering-torn Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor.

Also, Chen being optional is irrelevant, he's been canon for as long as the Lich King has--and until recently (as in, within the last two years recently) the RPG was canon, and that RPG was a treasure trove of pandaren lore (some of which has been cannibalized into Pandaria's canon).

To expand on this, as well, the RPG books are considered non-canon only as long as they aren't referenced within the game/novels. We're now seeing a lot of Pandaren lore from the RPG books manifest in-game, so it's obvious that on the subject of Pandaren, the RPG is at least somewhat canon.

[Deleted]

Sorta agree.

Pandaren feel out of place in the game. To me it's obvious that they were an easter egg / april fools joke...

Yesterday I was doing a dungeon run with a blood elf death knight, undead warlock, orc warrior, troll priest, tauren druid and panda mage... The panda mage really was the odd one out in the picture.

What kind of dungeon are you running? As far as im aware there can only be 5 people in a instance and not 6 like your claiming, heck you mean 7 people in 1 instance since you seem to be hinting at other players and not mentioning your own character.

[Chrysia]

What kind of dungeon are you running? As far as im aware there can only be 5 people in a instance and not 6 like your claiming.

This was funny the first 5 or 6 times it got brought up in the last 26 pages. The discussion has moved on since then. Please drop it.

[Deleted]

This was funny the first 5 or 6 times it got brought up in the last 26 pages. The discussion has moved on since then. Please drop it.

Not gonna read 25 pages before answering to a post on the first page, sorry but no.

[Shiandra]

Personally I'm glad for the Pandarian.
I'm all for conflict, but the Horde vs Alliance stuff has gotten stale for me, time to move on and make a new kind of war.
Yes, making the alliance and horde one faction would play hell on PvP, but what about adding one or even two new factions to create new chaos?
Doubt they'll do that, but I am excited by what Wraithion hinted at.
On top of it all I am glad that Horde has a new race that isn't green, seriously I hate orcs, goblins and trolls and Bloodelves now have competition.
I've not tried a Monk yet, but from what I have seen and heard they are pretty fun.
Plenty of conflict brewing to satisfy all my bloodthirsty cravings and in the meantime my cute Panda hunter will be killing hordes of gazelle in vale of two moons to steal their skin and sell on the AH.

Sit back and wait patiently impatient for the carnage!

[Chrysia]

Not gonna read 26 pages before answering to a post on the first page, sorry but no.

Then don't reply to something on the first page. More than likely, something on the first page has been hashed out well before the thread reaches 26 pages.

[Thage]

What kind of dungeon are you running? As far as im aware there can only be 5 people in a instance and not 6 like your claiming, heck you mean 7 people in 1 instance since you seem to be hinting at other players and not mentioning your own character.

Gonna play devil's advocate here and guess that maybe Rochana also listed people who dropped out of the group during the dungeon itself.

[Winterstrife]

25 pages of why Pandaren shouldn't be in-game? Wtf man...
People have been asking for Pandaren to be maybe a playable race since their appearance in WC3:FT, there were even plenty of fan art just based of ONE neutral hero & now we get an entire expansion devoted mainly to this race... & people bitch about it?
Do people just have split personalities? Or are people up in arms because its an Asian themed expansion?

[Reclaimer]

The fact just is that some people, like me, really really dislike the concept of "furries".

So I dislike pandas and even worgen with a passion.

I absolutely don't mind Draenei and love how the female models look ingame. Sexy stuff.

....So that last part you said made everything in your post invaild, Good job.

[Theendgamelv3]

I was indeed listing people that dropped out halfway the dungeon as I already answered halfway the page and the orc warrior was my character.

I mean there is a reason why at one point the artist made the concept art as a "joke" back then. Even he must've felt back then that the character somewhat felt out of place or might not be happily received. We're talking about early WC3 days here though where the genre was a lot more defined and within stricter constraints than it is now. The lore is a lot more loose and many concessions have been made to the lore to make certain things acceptable and explainable. Back then WC3 was all about humans, orcs, undead and as newest most experimental addition night elves. (Whose lore presumably also didn't exist at all before WC3).

Some people, like me, strongly preferred -that- theme and -that- lore over the current one. So some people will not like it when something that was considered as one-off 'art joke' back then because of the theme and mindset of then, does get added now.

It's just personal opinion and I doubt my personal opinion is going to change anything. But I'm still not going to like the pandaren race. :P

---------- Post added 2012-10-09 at 06:51 AM ----------



Personal opinions are invalid now? Ok. ?? I'm going to assume you were making a joke ...

Ummm Samwise didn't draw them as a "joke" back then. The first art he drew of the Pandaren done for Christmas after the birth of his daughter. He didn't go "I wanna make a joke race". To the person who created them, he never looked at them as a joke, at least the way he talks about them anyways.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/10/21/wo...ally-bringing/

[Angarin]

Neither were gnomes but they got in somehow

[sam86]

WRONG!

Both of those units are from the same game, Warcraft 2. The flying machine in Warcraft 3 is a dwarf.

Try 9 years. The joke they admitted to was that before Warcraft 3's release they said Pandaren would be the final playable race (which we later found out to be the undead).

THAT was the joke.

Their inclusion in the expansion was not.

"Strangely, the gnomes refused to send any personnel to aid their allies during the Burning Legion's invasion during the Third War. Though their designs also helped turning the tide against the Legion," The unit was designed by gnomes piloted by dwarves, but yes I did a mistake there is no direct unit gnome in warcraft3

As for pandas as 4th race, I want a link as proof because I remember every stage of warcraft3 there was no mention at all about pandas as 4th race ever (I even remember early beta where human and orcs build building same style as warcraft2, not to mention there was units in horde in demo that didn't make it to live game)

No matter what Blizzard does, there will always have people complaining. They could add a Argus expansion like "everybody" wants and there will still be complaining. There is no true direction for this game.

I don't see complains from Argus itself (however they will argue about other things like Sargeras shouldn't be fight-able at all etc), pandas made controversial talk first time after Draenei, and unlike BC time where they used to respect us (first and only time Metzen posted on forums and apologized), they didn't say any comment at all

25 pages of why Pandaren shouldn't be in-game? Wtf man...
People have been asking for Pandaren to be maybe a playable race since their appearance in WC3:FT, there were even plenty of fan art just based of ONE neutral hero & now we get an entire expansion devoted mainly to this race... & people bitch about it?
Do people just have split personalities? Or are people up in arms because its an Asian themed expansion?

People were asking for pandas as playable race before even wow was in alpha stage... yeah right
I was a fan of pandas as a joke, a comical relief, but not to have a complete expansion built around them

[Deleted]

You know the argument is not "there was one Pandaren in WC3 so it's ok to put them into WoW and nobody can complain."
People usually just pull the "Chen was in WC3"-thing to adress two claims.

1. WoW is copied from Kung Fu Panda
2. They don't fit the universe

Both claims make no sense considering 1.) there was a Pandaren in the universe long before KFP was created and 2.) there was a Pandaren in Warcraft lore before WoW was created.

They are definitely very different from the other WoW races. But that's a good thing. Why add another race that doesn't distinguish themselves.
I think when the Worgen came out people said "what werewolves in WoW? they don't fit in, only kids and twilight fags will play them"

[Deleted]

To be honest it doesn't really matter at all which one came first in public perception.

Only because people are ignorant to that.

And there is a difference between one mysterious roaming pandaren fitting in the universe, or a whole race / continent / population of less mysterious pandaren becoming a large part of the Alliance or Horde faction.

Why? Either it fits or it doesn't.

[BurningSkies2018]

The odd thing here is that your dungeon had six people in it.

Holy smokes O_O

[Deleted]

I for one feel mostly ambivalence towards the Pandaren. At times it feels misplaced, but other times it feels appropriate. Not really sure what to think yet and I prefer not to have a mindset.