Question because our Monk tank has hear done thing and we've heard another..

[Mawnix]

For some reason he's insisting for Brewmasters he has to be at the 15% maximum cap for Expertise, and not the 7.5% Cap.

Is this true or is he reforging wrong because he was getting hit like a truck last night in Mogushan cuz he was completely reforged and gemmed for Expertise.

What's the stat priority for him then and gemming wise? Thanks!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Bumen/simple

That's his armory..I fucked up the name before.

My bad.

[fizzbob]

For some reason he's insisting for Brewmasters he has to be at the 15% maximum cap for Expertise, and not the 7.5% Cap.

Is this true or is he reforging wrong because he was getting hit like a truck last night in Mogushan cuz he was completely reforged and gemmed for Expertise.

What's the stat priority for him then and gemming wise? Thanks1

who is he, seeing his gear would be nice

he was getting hit like a truck because shuffle and guard uptime probably weren't perfect, or maybe he's undergeared. not a general consensus on which exp cap is right, but he probably needs some gear with exp on it already to keep from having so much less of everything else. if his gear is mostly crit then he's got a lot of "wasted" stats really. is he hit capped?

or maybe the healers, like most healers, aren't used to any type of progression. healers hate to do as much work as everyone else nowadays. they like to either spam without worrying about mana or use hots to keep you alive

[Mawnix]

who is he, seeing his gear would be nice

he was getting hit like a truck because shuffle and guard uptime probably weren't perfect, or maybe he's undergeared

or maybe the healers, like most healers, aren't used to any type of progression. healers hate to do as much work as everyone else nowadays. they like to either spam without worrying about mana or use hots to keep you alive

No it's not that..I know you can't really take my word on it but we're a really good group.

He decided to change to the Monk class for Mists for Tanking and leave his Pally behind.

Whenever having another class in our guild, whether it be Prot Warrior or Blood DK, he's the one getting his like a truck.

His iLevel is 465 and I can't find his armory right now, so..

It's not the healers.
It's not the other tank.
It's not the DPS.
Is he statting incorrectly.

[Edlarel]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ng-Guide-5-0-5

This post on these very forums will help both of you. He can go for the hard cap, but should really focus on other stats until those are maxed/capped. Mastery isn't a great sink for us, so expertise is good WHEN you have what you need from the rest.

[Mawnix]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ng-Guide-5-0-5

This post on these very forums will help both of you. He can go for the hard cap, but should really focus on other stats until those are maxed/capped. Mastery isn't a great sink for us, so expertise is good WHEN you have what you need from the rest.

When what other stats are capped? Like Hit? Haste? Doesn't Haste effect Energy Regen.

[Sumatran]

For some reason he's insisting for Brewmasters he has to be at the 15% maximum cap for Expertise, and not the 7.5% Cap.

Is this true or is he reforging wrong because he was getting hit like a truck last night in Mogushan cuz he was completely reforged and gemmed for Expertise.

What's the stat priority for him then and gemming wise? Thanks1

Well you answered your own question. If a tank is getting trucked hes doing it wrong. 7.5% is what he wants. Stat prio is:

Agi > Hit (7.5%) > Exp (7.5%) > Haste > Crit > Parry > Dodge > Stam > Mastery.

[fizzbob]

No it's not that..I know you can't really take my word on it but we're a really good group.

He decided to change to the Monk class for Mists for Tanking and leave his Pally behind.

Whenever having another class in our guild, whether it be Prot Warrior or Blood DK, he's the one getting his like a truck.

His iLevel is 465 and I can't find his armory right now, so..

It's not the healers.
It's not the other tank.
It's not the DPS.
Is he statting incorrectly.

still don't know who the fuck he is, need an armory link

[Judic]

The expertise cap from what I remember is for GotO orbs. When you are capped at 15% you generate more GotO Orbs and need to be getting those as much as possible. The Expertise route is for more self healing. The other route with haste/crit makes it so you can keep shuffle up more and get more stacks of elusive brew through crit.

[fizzbob]

The expertise cap from what I remember is for GotO orbs. When you are capped at 15% you generate more GotO Orbs and need to be getting those as much as possible. The Expertise route is for more self healing. The other route with haste/crit makes it so you can keep shuffle up more and get more stacks of elusive brew through crit.

hit/exp is for shuffle/eb too. a string of parries = less mitigation. if your ability misses or is parried/dodged then you could theoretically go 2 attacks depending on your 25% armor to save you

[Kisho]

The thing with Brewmasters is that our Active Mitigation is so ridiculously strong, that we don't actually need to go for defensive stats. What we need are the tools to keep that AM active: in other words, hit and expertise, then haste and crit.

Whether we need 7.5% or 15% expertise is potentially debateable; it's less parries, and more gift of the ox procs (thus healing if we actually pick up the orbs) if we get the parry hard cap, but as you say it's less stats in other areas. Personally I've got the 15% hard cap and I don't notice myself being particularly squishy. I've also asked my healers and they say I'm no worse to heal than the Paladin tank I was with in MV.

So his stats are fine: what's questionable is his Active Mitigation usage. Did he use Guard as soon as it was off cooldown, with 3 stacks of Power Guard? Did he keep Shuffle up 100% of the time (or as close as possible to it)? Did he use Elusive Brew before it got to 15 stacks, thus not wasting any potential stacks? Did he keep picking up Gift of the Ox orbs, thus self healing and reducing the work the healers have to do? Did he use Expel Harm as much as possible, again self healing?

Active Mitigation is where a Brewmaster shines or dies, and I'm almost certain is where the problem is. His stats are fine.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:20 PM ----------

When what other stats are capped? Like Hit? Haste? Doesn't Haste effect Energy Regen.

Look at the link in the post you're quoting. Our stat priority is there and it works very well.

[Zene]

Active Mitigation is where a Brewmaster shines or dies, and I'm almost certain is where the problem is. His stats are fine.[COLOR="red"]

This is true. So i understand you don't want to call him out by linking his armory or even saying his name. But in this case, looking at a world of logs output to see his up time of shuffle and guard would be more beneficial. How often he pops his brews, uses expel harm. There's a lot going on for a monk tank baseline before you even consider boss mechanics. That's the active mitigation, that's the play style more than the gearing that will have a bigger effect.

[Raugnaut]

Theres a brewmaster tanking guide, you know. It lists Expertise as being the most valuable stat. Generally, he should gem Expertise in red sockets, Hit in blue sockets, and either a green/orange gem in yellow sockets that have either hit or expertise plus some yellow stat (The yellow changes depending on what you want to go for, crit, haste, dodge, or mastery)

However, he should be hitting both the Hit cap and, at the very least, expertise soft cap (7.5% in both). After that, expertise is still better, the question is more what he is missing to get that cap. He should hit all the socket bonuses, and pick a secondary stat that he can keep, and then reforge away from that. (I.E If he has multiple pieces with haste/mastery, he picks either the haste OR the mastery, and reforges away from that stat on all pieces)

[Sumatran]

Theres a brewmaster tanking guide, you know. It lists Expertise as being the most valuable stat. Generally, he should gem Expertise in red sockets, Hit in blue sockets, and either a green/orange gem in yellow sockets that have either hit or expertise plus some yellow stat (The yellow changes depending on what you want to go for, crit, haste, dodge, or mastery)

However, he should be hitting both the Hit cap and, at the very least, expertise soft cap (7.5% in both). After that, expertise is still better, the question is more what he is missing to get that cap. He should hit all the socket bonuses, and pick a secondary stat that he can keep, and then reforge away from that. (I.E If he has multiple pieces with haste/mastery, he picks either the haste OR the mastery, and reforges away from that stat on all pieces)

WTF am I reading? ALWAYS reforge away from mastery if given the choice. Haste is much better. This is bad advice, I dont recommend it.

[The Madgod]

The latest information shows that getting expertise hard cap isn't as AHMAWGURD amazing as it was, but is still very valuable. That having been said, I'm rolling quite close to expertise cap (I was there prior to the information but deflated a bit after getting a couple upgrades and preferring to get other stats) and I do quite fine in Mogu'Shan.

The reason your tank is taking so much damage is more likely due to how well he's playing, not what his stat allocation is like. I came to brewmasters from a paladin and paladins are much simpler. It's quite possible that he's having trouble acclimating.

However, he should be hitting both the Hit cap and, at the very least, expertise soft cap (7.5% in both). After that, expertise is still better, the question is more what he is missing to get that cap. He should hit all the socket bonuses, and pick a secondary stat that he can keep, and then reforge away from that. (I.E If he has multiple pieces with haste/mastery, he picks either the haste OR the mastery, and reforges away from that stat on all pieces)

You didn't read my guide at all did you?

Mastery is so much of a niche stat that it shouldn't even be considered unless you're doing bleeding edge content and are prepared to realize that your active mitigation will suffer because of your choice of stats and you WILL die simply due to RNG at times. Even then, I'd say stack stamina instead.

Nor is dodge a good thing to gem / reforge into, since it has TERRIBLE DR and active mitigation is simply superior.

Getting hit capped shouldn't require gems, so really, gemming consists of getting expertise, haste, or crit, depending on what you need more.

[Mawnix]

The thing with Brewmasters is that our Active Mitigation is so ridiculously strong, that we don't actually need to go for defensive stats. What we need are the tools to keep that AM active: in other words, hit and expertise, then haste and crit.

Whether we need 7.5% or 15% expertise is potentially debateable; it's less parries, and more gift of the ox procs (thus healing if we actually pick up the orbs) if we get the parry hard cap, but as you say it's less stats in other areas. Personally I've got the 15% hard cap and I don't notice myself being particularly squishy. I've also asked my healers and they say I'm no worse to heal than the Paladin tank I was with in MV.

So his stats are fine: what's questionable is his Active Mitigation usage. Did he use Guard as soon as it was off cooldown, with 3 stacks of Power Guard? Did he keep Shuffle up 100% of the time (or as close as possible to it)? Did he use Elusive Brew before it got to 15 stacks, thus not wasting any potential stacks? Did he keep picking up Gift of the Ox orbs, thus self healing and reducing the work the healers have to do? Did he use Expel Harm as much as possible, again self healing?

Active Mitigation is where a Brewmaster shines or dies, and I'm almost certain is where the problem is. His stats are fine.

---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 05:20 PM ----------



Look at the link in the post you're quoting. Our stat priority is there and it works very well.

Sorry, sorry. Missed it.

[Bryce]

Can we see a log and we'll know for sure. And if he's a tank in your raid group how can you not find his armory o.O

But anyways from my own experience. Healers were saying I was 'squishy' as well, but when I found out in our logs I was slacking on my shuffle uptime I turned that around and the new raids my shuffle uptime nearly tripled and is now sitting at close to 97-98% uptime. My power guard (buffed guard) is sitting around 90% uptime. All this was an improvement from a pittiful 37% or less shuffle uptime. Also doing this upped my overall damage done/dps by a considerable amount as well.

Also, don't forget about Dampen Harm/Diffuse Magic depending on the fight. Then you do have Fortfying Brew for those oh shit moments. But like others have said most of our 'cooldowns' are active so we do need to land the attack for it to actually work. No missing and still get a shield like DKs do.

[arisoh]

What would really help is a WoL parse to see his Shuffle uptimes and such. It will be a better tool to diagnose his problems on the whole and give him tips to improve his gameplay.

[Mawnix]

Can we see a log and we'll know for sure. And if he's a tank in your raid group how can you not find his armory o.O

But anyways from my own experience. Healers were saying I was 'squishy' as well, but when I found out in our logs I was slacking on my shuffle uptime I turned that around and the new raids my shuffle uptime nearly tripled and is now sitting at close to 97-98% uptime. My power guard (buffed guard) is sitting around 90% uptime. All this was an improvement from a pittiful 37% or less shuffle uptime. Also doing this upped my overall damage done/dps by a considerable amount as well.

Also, don't forget about Dampen Harm/Diffuse Magic depending on the fight. Then you do have Fortfying Brew for those oh shit moments. But like others have said most of our 'cooldowns' are active so we do need to land the attack for it to actually work. No missing and still get a shield like DKs do.

Name has really weird characters in it.

[The Madgod]

Name has really weird characters in it.

If you know what guild he's in, search its roster for him.

[Yoshimiko]

Name has really weird characters in it.

If you can just say what server/guild you're on, we can find him.