1. #27061
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I'm not saying the questions about Obama's religion are valid, either.

    And Spectral, that was over 30 years ago. People change. It's not an issue anymore.

  2. #27062
    When someone's never really been asked about it, we have no idea what their stance on it was or is. I mean, I know Romney's happy to lie and disavow that he was ever OK with racism, but someone in the press should at least mention that he was an active participant in a deeply racist organization.

  3. #27063
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    I don't think bringing LDS into it is a great idea. Perhaps just asking "to what extent do you/did you believe in certain stances LDS used to take" is fine. But that will be spun as Obama playing the race card. So maybe still not a good idea.
    I think the only thing that should be brought up about the LDS is campaign contributions from LDS bigwigs through 100% fake companies. ELI PUBLISHING INC and F8 LLC both made massive contributions to the Romney Super PAC Restore Our Future. Both of those companies share an address, have zero history of doing any business at all, and are completely shell companies. Eli Publishing is owned by an LDS bigwig who I believe owns a perfume company. F8 LLC is owned by his son in law. Those are two of literally dozens of fake companies established for the sole purpose of hiding who is donating to Mitt Romney supporting PACs and at least a handful of those are controlled by major, major players in the LDS.

  4. #27064
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    but someone in the press should at least mention that he was an active participant in a deeply racist organization.
    Should they also mention that Paul Ryan and Joe Biden both belong to an organization that harbored child molestors?

    No? Didn't think so.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  5. #27065
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Should they also mention that Paul Ryan and Joe Biden both belong to an organization that harbored child molestors?

    No? Didn't think so.
    Well, according to the VP debate there is only one of them that doesn't want to force his beliefs on us.

  6. #27066
    Merely a Setback Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    I don't see Mitt's religion as being a big deal. I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up more since it is a pretty crazy religion. All religion takes a leap of faith, but some leaps are off the top of a house and some are from the grand canyon. Mormonism is from the top of freaking Everest if you can close your eyes and honestly be okay with one guy reading your religious text off gold tablets only he ever saw. But hey as long as it doesn't influence his decisions anymore than the GOP already bases their entire plan on the Bible, who cares. That reminds me, Ryan essentially said in the debate he has no issue forcing his religious beliefs on others through abortion regulation.

    Mormonism used to be racist but now has plenty of black members. I'm not going to fault the guy for the decisions of his religion decades ago. I'd rather fault the guy for constantly changing positions, his absolute blatant refusal to give a single example of a deduction or loophole being closed to somehow balance out his 20% tax cut, his support for abortion legislation, etc. You know, decisions that matter right now, not ones from the 70s.
    I honestly don't think it's any weirder than any other more mainstream religion, but I don't want to get into details since we aren't really supposed to do that on these forums.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 01:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    I think the only thing that should be brought up about the LDS is campaign contributions from LDS bigwigs through 100% fake companies. ELI PUBLISHING INC and F8 LLC both made massive contributions to the Romney Super PAC Restore Our Future. Both of those companies share an address, have zero history of doing any business at all, and are completely shell companies. Eli Publishing is owned by an LDS bigwig who I believe owns a perfume company. F8 LLC is owned by his son in law. Those are two of literally dozens of fake companies established for the sole purpose of hiding who is donating to Mitt Romney supporting PACs and at least a handful of those are controlled by major, major players in the LDS.
    There's nothing illegal about any of that. I think unlimited contributions to Super PACs is a problem in itself, but the fact that the contributions came from shell companies isn't that big a deal really.
    'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
    Or a yawing hole in a battered head
    And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
    And there they lay I damn me eyes
    All lookouts clapped on Paradise
    All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

  7. #27067
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Should they also mention that Paul Ryan and Joe Biden both belong to an organization that harbored child molestors?

    No? Didn't think so.
    You won't get any argument from me that they should. Both LDS and the Catholic Church have had institutional policies sufficiently vile that their members should be asked about them when running for office. Instead, even mentioning a candidate's religion in the public square results in endless tone trolling. Want to say your opponent lets people die? No problem! Want to say, "hey, what do you think of this policy of the organization you belong to?". Off limits! Religion is private!

  8. #27068
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Because most of the time those poor practices of their religions don't bleed over, or when they do it's so obvious that you don't need to ask.

  9. #27069
    Usually, people don't get to belong to organizations with vile policies and just say, "hey, but that's not me". Religious organizations get exemptions, and it's nothing but special pleading. Do you think if Obama or Romney had been part of an actively racist non-religious organization, no one in the general media would say a peep about it?

  10. #27070
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Is there a reason why we need to ask?

  11. #27071
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Because most of the time those poor practices of their religions don't bleed over, or when they do it's so obvious that you don't need to ask.
    Right. I would add that questions of a president's religion are pretty much inconsequential. I'm more concerned about congress and the supreme court on that.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  12. #27072
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Is there a reason why we need to ask?
    Because ignoring membership in racist organizations is just plain old sloppiness. When the reason it's being done is to tip-toe around religion, that doesn't make it any better.

  13. #27073
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    I think the only thing that should be brought up about the LDS is campaign contributions from LDS bigwigs through 100% fake companies.
    Altho I agree, I don't think the POTUS should have to defend himself against the implication/accusation that he is a muslim, with out the other guy's belief in space jesus coming into play. I'm not saying either is rite and they all should attack eachother in that way, but the door was opened.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  14. #27074
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Off limits! Religion is private!
    Except when it is Islam because Islam is the great evil lol.

    The inability to question a candidates religion basically goes in the opposite direction of the religious organizations that demand the ability to sponsor candidates with their money and with their speech. If religions want to play a role in the political game by pumping money into it, then yes it absolutely should be fair game to question any candidates religious beliefs (their actual ones not made up nonsense like Obama the Secret Muslim). Stuff like that should remain separate though so I don't really have an issue with them not asking the question until they start supporting legislation imposing their religion's will on the rest of us which some members of the GOP absolutely support.

    And we all already know Mitt's answer about the Mormon Church's support of segregation just thirty odd years ago. "I didn't support it at the time and supported the church allowing anyone to join." I doubt a Youtube video is going to pop up with Mitt giving a speech saying the "blacks don't belong in the LDS and their skin is dark because of god's wrath" or whatever nonsense the church believed. Asking the question is going to lead to more dissatisfaction than satisfaction so just shrug your shoulders and say who cares imo. It would be entertaining to see someone turn the tables on the GOP though for constantly speaking out against Reverand Wright's racist sermons (which strangely matter somehow despite people honestly thinking Obama is Muslim which for the record my parents actually believe).

  15. #27075
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    I honestly don't think it's any weirder than any other more mainstream religion, but I don't want to get into details since we aren't really supposed to do that on these forums.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-15 at 01:53 PM ----------



    There's nothing illegal about any of that. I think unlimited contributions to Super PACs is a problem in itself, but the fact that the contributions came from shell companies isn't that big a deal really.
    Aren't we allowed when it is politics? If someone who believed in Scientology was there then I am pretty damned sure it would be something to discuss...

  16. #27076
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Except when it is Islam because Islam is the great evil lol.
    The best part is that those who seriously believe this don't realize that the Bible contains just as much (if not even more) violence than the Qur'an.

  17. #27077
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    @Conscript

    So it would seem that the question has already been answered. Thanks for the info.

  18. #27078
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    Aren't we allowed when it is politics? If someone who believed in Scientology was there then I am pretty damned sure it would be something to discuss...
    Tom Cruise would be way too pissed.

  19. #27079
    Old God conscript's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moogogaipan View Post
    Altho I agree, I don't think the POTUS should have to defend himself against the implication/accusation that he is a muslim, with out the other guy's belief in space jesus coming into play. I'm not saying either is rite and they all should attack eachother in that way, but the door was opened.
    Ya but we all know that the door has never and will never work two ways with the GOPs most hardline nutter butters. Its fine to question Obama's birth certificate, his Social Security Card, his selective service registration, and on and on. But HOW DARE YOU call Mitt Romney a draft dodger, when he is one, or question how his father ran for President despite actually being foreign born. I would much, much rather see someone in the news media actually question Mitt on being a draft dodger rather than "space jesus." The guy literally fled to France thansk to his daddy's money and influence rather than going to Vietnam to fight for the country like many brave Americans. I would give anything to see Obama ask Romney about that during tomorrows foreign policy debate. It would be amazing. Want to completely shatter his base? Prove to them that the good old Murican party candidate is actually someone completely unwilling to fight for Murica, who invests in China, who hides money in every country that isn't the US, that takes deductions for horses worth three-four times your house, etc.

  20. #27080
    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    Except when it is Islam because Islam is the great evil lol.

    The inability to question a candidates religion basically goes in the opposite direction of the religious organizations that demand the ability to sponsor candidates with their money and with their speech. If religions want to play a role in the political game by pumping money into it, then yes it absolutely should be fair game to question any candidates religious beliefs (their actual ones not made up nonsense like Obama the Secret Muslim). Stuff like that should remain separate though so I don't really have an issue with them not asking the question until they start supporting legislation imposing their religion's will on the rest of us which some members of the GOP absolutely support.
    I agree completely.

    Quote Originally Posted by conscript View Post
    And we all already know Mitt's answer about the Mormon Church's support of segregation just thirty odd years ago. "I didn't support it at the time and supported the church allowing anyone to join." I doubt a Youtube video is going to pop up with Mitt giving a speech saying the "blacks don't belong in the LDS and their skin is dark because of god's wrath" or whatever nonsense the church believed. Asking the question is going to lead to more dissatisfaction than satisfaction so just shrug your shoulders and say who cares imo. It would be entertaining to see someone turn the tables on the GOP though for constantly speaking out against Reverand Wright's racist sermons (which strangely matter somehow despite people honestly thinking Obama is Muslim which for the record my parents actually believe).
    Sometimes, reporters ask questions not because they expect a real answer, but simply because they want to point something out. In this case, what should be pointed out is his very active membership in a racist organization. Of course he'll personally say that wasn't him and he'd never support racist policies, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be brought up.

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