Plague Leech VS Unholy Blight

[Dytzy]

I was just interested in what people thought about which is better dps and why.

[Kaosbringer]

PL is the only talent on that teir that increases DPS, however it is clunky as all hell. UB is an easy to use AoE outbreak that ticks for 10s.

It is really preference Pl is only like a 1.8% increase if used right, UB is fun and serves a purpose.

[Varyk]

It honestly depends. For single target fights, I would take Plague Leech every time (especially if you get Symbiosis which is like Unholy Blight).

For Aoe heavy fights, I would want Unholy Blight.

I like Plague Leech a lot tho, and it doesn't ever rly cause problems for me, the only thing you have to be careful about is using it when you only have 1 rune down, making you capped, stopping your regen. Just use it when you have a Rime proc and your Blood Plague has 2-3 seconds left, use it and reapply as you would anyways, it just nets you an extra rune every 25 seconds or so all for a GCD, which we have plenty of.

[Deleted]

unholy blight is best for bg's as you can just run in to a group and pop UB,RW and spam HB while using pillar of frost to do serious AOE damage

[Anastacy]

It honestly depends. For single target fights, I would take Plague Leech every time (especially if you get Symbiosis which is like Unholy Blight).

For Aoe heavy fights, I would want Unholy Blight.

I like Plague Leech a lot tho, and it doesn't ever rly cause problems for me, the only thing you have to be careful about is using it when you only have 1 rune down, making you capped, stopping your regen. Just use it when you have a Rime proc and your Blood Plague has 2-3 seconds left, use it and reapply as you would anyways, it just nets you an extra rune every 25 seconds or so all for a GCD, which we have plenty of.

A free rune from leaching a disease that you need a rune to reapply?

Hasnt it been well established that you only use Plague Leach when Outbreak is available?

[Wih]

A free rune from leaching a disease that you need a rune to reapply?

Hasnt it been well established that you only use Plague Leach when Outbreak is available?

Or in the event you have both a Rime proc and an Unholy rune and BP has <3 seconds left on it. As you'd be needing to reapply BP anyway it's viable, but without the Rime proc you'd be losing a F rune as well in the process. It means you're gaining a D rune in exhange for a few seconds of disease damage and 2 extra GCDs.

[Dytzy]

A free rune from leaching a disease that you need a rune to reapply?

Hasnt it been well established that you only use Plague Leach when Outbreak is available?

Or in the event you have both a Rime proc and an Unholy rune and BP has <3 seconds left on it. As you'd be needing to reapply BP anyway it's viable, but without the Rime proc you'd be losing a F rune as well in the process. It means you're gaining a D rune in exhange for a few seconds of disease damage and 2 extra GCDs.

Well, I started this thread because I am interested to know all the arguments for/against using them. So maybe a link to a website that discusses this would be nice?

Also according to Elitist Jerks thread on frost DK's, it states that you should be using it every 27-30 seconds, (aka right before using outbreak, and right before using plague strike to re-apply blood plague), So unless that thread on EJ is wrong, it directly conflicts what you said.

Also, the whole rime proc is also something I've considered... but other then EJ I havent been able to find a website/forum post that says the "optimal" way to use plague leech. Also why I made this thread.

[Wih]

Maybe there's been some sim work that shows that you get frequent enough Rime procs that it's a bigger DPS gain to get the rune and wait for the next rime proc/lose the disease damage as 2H than it is to skip the PL, I'm unsure. Simcraft priority seems to indicate that the current idea is to hardcast HB after PL if Outbreak isn't up, regardless of Rime procs.
DW gets it easy as they'll just be using the rune on HB anyway, so the Rime caveat is moot for them.

I'd also like to point out that the EJ thread doesn't give a relative priority on using PL in regards to other abilities, but assuming they're using the Simcraft priorities, it's put after cooldowns, SR and diseases, and above your standard damage abilities.

If you're wanting someone to quote some other post about how you should be using it you might be out of luck, but the irony of creating a post about PL use and then asking someone to link a post discussing PL use? This is a webpage on a website in which we are discussing it.

[Dytzy]

Mainly I was just asking for a link etc. because I have encountered a LOT of people in forums that tend to give information that isn't based on research or experience and is just based on what they think/do and what they've been told. Since I am looking for the "most" optimal answer I was hoping that there was a website out there that broke this stuff down that I hadn't run into yet. But yeah you're right. Maybe I was wrong to ask.

Also normally I would not be here asking questions like this in these threads, but I kind of feel that EJ has not been updating as reliably as it used to. Websites like Noxxic are updating much more often and sometimes contradicts the information on EJ's forums.

Really appreciate your input on this though. It's definately giving me a few ideas to test for myself. Which really is the main reason for this post.

[Schizoide]

PL is the only talent on that teir that increases DPS

I see this a lot-- this is not true. UB also increases DPS for frost, it's just worth less than PL on single targets. RB increases DPS too, for unholy and blood.

[Deleted]

Mainly I was just asking for a link etc. because I have encountered a LOT of people in forums that tend to give information that isn't based on research or experience and is just based on what they think/do and what they've been told. Since I am looking for the "most" optimal answer I was hoping that there was a website out there that broke this stuff down that I hadn't run into yet. But yeah you're right. Maybe I was wrong to ask.

Also normally I would not be here asking questions like this in these threads, but I kind of feel that EJ has not been updating as reliably as it used to. Websites like Noxxic are updating much more often and sometimes contradicts the information on EJ's forums.

Really appreciate your input on this though. It's definately giving me a few ideas to test for myself. Which really is the main reason for this post.

noxxic sucks tbh and so does arena junkies basically all the sites like that are all different just pick witch you like

[Varyk]

A free rune from leaching a disease that you need a rune to reapply?

Hasnt it been well established that you only use Plague Leach when Outbreak is available?

No, with a Rime proc and your blood plague about to expire, when you would reapply anyways, you simply Plague Leech, Howling Blast (RIME) and Plague Strike (you would use this rune regardless) (again...which would you do anyways) netting/saving (however u want to look at it) a rune in the process. Having it after u can pillar/leech/outbreak after the first minute is also amazing as it typically opens an extra obliterate. I honestly don't see why people dislike it. Not knowing or understanding how to use it correctly isn't the fault of the talent itself.

When you factor in Symbiosis (if timed correctly, you can leech twice within the duration of wild plague and it will reapply both times, for 2 extra runes), it gets even better.

[broodax]

The problem with all of the lovely descriptions of plague leach is that they describe a perfect scenario. You have 3 seconds left on Blood Plague, Rime procs, you have a rune on cooldown, and you're currently in melee range. If even 1 or 2 times per fight you end up with BP running out when you just had good RE luck so you don't have a rune on cooldown, or while you're running out of melee and you can't use it, all of the benefit from the talent is gone.

I'm not sure how much difference it makes whether Rime procs or not. SimCraft ignores it, so perhaps it's not a big deal, but I know I have horrible luck and am always spending frost runes to re-apply.

[Schizoide]

Last I checked, PL was a 1.4% DPS gain over UB for frost and something like 0.8% for unholy. That assumes you use it correctly every time. If you let your diseases drop without leeching them, which is very possible in actual encounters with time off target, target switching, movement, etc, that advantage evaporates. It's up to you, of course, but for me UB is the clear choice.

[Shiira]

The problem with all of the lovely descriptions of plague leach is that they describe a perfect scenario. You have 3 seconds left on Blood Plague, Rime procs, you have a rune on cooldown, and you're currently in melee range. If even 1 or 2 times per fight you end up with BP running out when you just had good RE luck so you don't have a rune on cooldown, or while you're running out of melee and you can't use it, all of the benefit from the talent is gone.

I'm not sure how much difference it makes whether Rime procs or not. SimCraft ignores it, so perhaps it's not a big deal, but I know I have horrible luck and am always spending frost runes to re-apply.

Plague leech actually has a 30 yard range, but yes, you need the right scenario for it to be worth using.

Otherwise you just don't use it.

[Algearond]

I like UB for Blood and PL for UH, both, to me at least, work quite well for my play style, not sure about Frost.

[dryankem]

PL seems to be the optimal choice for DPS, however in practice I find that I'm using UB a lot. UB is best used in AOE situations obviously but it gives me another way to re-apply my diseases in single target as well if needed.

[Varyk]

The problem with all of the lovely descriptions of plague leach is that they describe a perfect scenario. You have 3 seconds left on Blood Plague, Rime procs, you have a rune on cooldown, and you're currently in melee range. If even 1 or 2 times per fight you end up with BP running out when you just had good RE luck so you don't have a rune on cooldown, or while you're running out of melee and you can't use it, all of the benefit from the talent is gone.

I'm not sure how much difference it makes whether Rime procs or not. SimCraft ignores it, so perhaps it's not a big deal, but I know I have horrible luck and am always spending frost runes to re-apply.

How is it a perfect scenario? It happens EVERY disease cycle. Literally...every single time. All you need is a rime proc. Which you have....prettymuch whenever you want.

[Tehstool]

Personally I prefer UB because it's a second outbreak.

[Wrien]

Plague Leech is the stupidest talents in-game
Same with Rolling Blood, we already have Pestilence..... Is't just another unnecessary talent.
Unholy Blight is the only decent talent in tier 1