Mafia game discussion thread.

[Krayzy]

Wolf mafia vigilante serial killer cop seer jack JK doctor bomb/PGO VT
Other roles are largely pointless and flavor. Rabid wolf is an interesting idea but don't really see the point in it, it's just as helpful and harmful to both factions so aside from adding spice to the game it doesn't accomplish much. Lookout/watcher have the potential to be useful but will almost never end up being so. Both of these roles fit better on a scum team.

Most of that is largely irrelevant because the game was ruined by insider trading so there wasn't much use for or need of any town roles whatsoever. This entire game was a wolf consortium that ended up destroying itself, every town player might as well have just stopped checking the thread entirely. Perhaps in a legitimate game these roles would be much more exciting.

I agree with Lysah on this.

I was disappointed to find out the scum teams were working together. That goes against the spirit of the game and honestly shouldn't be allowed.

One role I'd like to add to Lysah's list is Mason's. They can be overpowered if there are too many of them, but if kept to only a few they are helpful and balanced.

[Lysah]

Oh yeah, masons are okay.

[Anakso]

Out of those roles listed by Lysah I've only managed to get wolf/mafia, SK and cop
Cop was to much pressure! SK was fun though but I hate being wolf or mafia actually don't think I've been wolf, just mafia.

From memory outside of those I've been VT, Drunk but lasted all of 1 day and a deputy in this game which is basically a VT with a different name since the cop died on the last night and after me, and drunks just a VT but a lot more fun...if I'd got to use it.

[Lysah]

I get bomb or VT every game...but those other roles sound fun =p

[Loaf]

You were cop once.

[Lysah]

Zero positive investigations that game, doesn't mean a whole lot.

[Loaf]

Zero positive investigations that game, doesn't mean a whole lot.

it happens, you were still a cop once.

[Lysah]

it happens, you were still a cop once.

You sound upset =p

[Loaf]

Nope, just pointing out something you (probably intentionally) missed :P

[Lysah]

Nope, just pointing out something you (probably intentionally) missed :P

I didn't win so it doesn't count!

[keleb]

Rabid wolf is an interesting idea but don't really see the point in it, it's just as helpful and harmful to both factions so aside from adding spice to the game it doesn't accomplish much.

Zero positive investigations that game, doesn't mean a whole lot.

This is where the Rabid Wolf would make a difference. Or rather where the lack of GF makes a difference. As a Cop, if I investigate someone and get Town back. They are not Woves/Mafia. So you may more safely make contact with them and create your own mini network. There's still the risk of them being SK, but those have no special interest in killing you and may benefit from you being alive as you hunt down a common enemy.

Lookout/watcher have the potential to be useful but will almost never end up being so. Both of these roles fit better on a scum team.

Would you like to elaborate on this? Both in how you think they'll rarely be useful and why, and how and why they fit better in a scum team.


Also a question to everyone, what do you think it would take to make a game interesting as a VT?

[Dyra]

Oh are we listing roles?

I have been:

VT 5 times (2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw)
Jack 3 times (3 wins)
ME 2 times (2 wins)
Mafia 2 times (1 win, 1 loss)
SK 1 time (1 loss)
Cop 1 time (1 loss)
Doctor 1 time (1 win)
Copy Cat 1 time (1 loss)
Mayor 1 time (1 loss.... still bitter )

[Loaf]

Oh are we listing roles?

I have been:

VT 5 times (2 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw)
Jack 3 times (3 wins)
ME 2 times (2 wins)
Mafia 2 times (1 win, 1 loss)
SK 1 time (1 loss)
Cop 1 time (1 loss)
Doctor 1 time (1 win)
Copy Cat 1 time (1 loss)
Mayor 1 time (1 loss.... still bitter )

*highfives Kitteh*
damn op cannibals in that game

I have been...ummm....
let's see...
game1 I was cop, win
game 2 I think was vt, win
game 3 was seer, win
game 4 was a vanilla survivor(vt basically), loss
game 5 was a mafia, loss
game 6 I was doctor I think, loss(damn op sk's, Arlee and Dyra)
game 7...hmmm...I can't remember if I started modding here or not
afterwards it becomes hazy with the game numbers

I remember being a wolf investigator, win
was a vigilante on an alt account, win
last game was doc, loss(horrible too)
just finished game was wolf, loss

I think I got all of em, but may have missed one.

Oh, I did forget the anon games on the other forums. Can't remember my roles those games though :\ I was scum in one, I think I offmodded the first though.

[Dyra]

I think VT is more interesting if there is the chance of additional roles.

For example:
Back-up Doc/Cop: Instead of being assigned at the start of the game, upon the death of the original Cop/Doc. The role is randomly given to a remaining VT. I'd purposely make it weaker if needs be (i.e. every other night or for 1 night only). Though the conditions for deputy can work here too.
Ghost: (Only 1 VT randomly chosen beforehand, but they don't know they are the ghost) Returns as a ghost for one night to role block anyone if their choice.
Mayor: (Same condition as the Ghost) Mafia lynch target. Un-night killable (to SKs as well?). Just don't have a badtardised Cop......

Of these, I prefer the Ghost. Last time it was implemented, the Ghosts were a TPR and a Mafian, but I think it should be for VT only.

[Loaf]

*pokes Kitteh*

---------- Post added 2012-10-30 at 04:25 AM ----------

I think VT is more interesting if there is the chance of additional roles.

For example:
Back-up Doc/Cop: Instead of being assigned at the start of the game, upon the death of the original Cop/Doc. The role is randomly given to a remaining VT. I'd purposely make it weaker if needs be (i.e. every other night or for 1 night only). Though the conditions for deputy can work here too.
Ghost: (Only 1 VT randomly chosen beforehand, but they don't know they are the ghost) Returns as a ghost for one night to role block anyone if their choice.
Mayor: (Same condition as the Ghost) Mafia lynch target. Un-night killable (to SKs as well?). Just don't have a badtardised Cop......

Of these, I prefer the Ghost. Last time it was implemented, the Ghosts were a TPR and a Mafian, but I think it should be for VT only.

the bastard cop was basically to cover a big mistake Foxxi made. She wasn't banking on Ana(I think it was him) checking you night one which basically would've killed the game there. I think she meant to not even have a cop, but I can't remember at this point.

[Lysah]

Would you like to elaborate on this? Both in how you think they'll rarely be useful and why, and how and why they fit better in a scum team.


Also a question to everyone, what do you think it would take to make a game interesting as a VT?

A) A town based lookout/tracker gets no real information from their night action unless their target dies/doesn't die, respectively. Theoretically, had I been night killed, EN could have role claimed and told the town, but what are the chances of that randomly happening in a game? Seems like it just won't happen often. It's not the worst role, for sure, and certainly fun to have instead of being a VT, it will at least make you feel somewhat useful, however, it will also cause people to think they are important and lurk more, which is never good for the day phase...

B) As the number of and power of night actions goes up the fun of being a VT goes down. The original game had set ups such as cop/doctor/5 VT/3 mafia. In this set up there is only one night kill and the town pretty much needs to lynch every day. Meanwhile, they can mislynch a couple of times so they can joke around with their role during the day. This last game, there were 3 scum kills a night, and with half the game being scum the town needed scum help to make a lynch at all. Meanwhile, more than half the town had a power role and was lurking as a result, making being a VT extremely horrible. I hope this makes sense. Your options are to either reduce the amount of VTs substantially, as in this game, just to reduce the amount of people who are bored with the game. The risk you run with that is massively slow day phases that result in no lynches, which is pretty much how the past two games have gone. The other alternative is to have any number of VTs but reduce the power of the rest of the game, so, one scum faction and only a few town PR.

And yes, the town mayor game probably shouldn't have a cop at all so as to force the town to lynch every day.

[keleb]

I hope this makes sense.

Very much, good feedback.

Your options are to either reduce the amount of VTs substantially, as in this game, just to reduce the amount of people who are bored with the game. The risk you run with that is massively slow day phases that result in no lynches, which is pretty much how the past two games have gone. The other alternative is to have any number of VTs but reduce the power of the rest of the game, so, one scum faction and only a few town PR.

Personally I like the multiple scum faction. This is because it gives the scum more of a tactical thinking when making NKs. We saw the flaw of it this time when they, if not allied, made a NAP, but I can't remember seeing it before this game. I've only been reading or participating in games since game 7 so I don't know before then.

I think we had the problem of VTs lurking out of boredom even with a considerable amount of them. Making TPR less powerful might make it more interesting to be a VT (as it is more important).

Another option that I've been thinking of is having each VT have a small frivolous role, much like the town drunk was intended to be. Officially they are VT but they also have a night (or day) action with an ability that doesn't affect the game, or affect it in a game they don't know. Have a VT be a "Movie addict" spending his evenings and nights watching movies. Each night he can pick to watch a "Romantic Drama", "Horror", "Adventure" or "Comedy". The VT won't know the difference of them but should he say be watching a horror movie on a night when he's targeted for a NK, he'll scare away the assassin before they are killed. Maybe none of it matters. The VT won't know. It'll give them a possibly weak role instead of just being a "booring VT".

Another thing I'd like to hear opinions about are semi-closed games with inclusion of an unknown role where you only know part of the setup. Example:
0-2 cops (including deputy)
1-2 doc (including backup)
0-1 Vigilante
0-1 JK
0-1 JOAT
0-1 Tracker
0-1 Lookout
1-2 Mafia/wolf factions of 3-5 players each
0-2 SKs (in team if 2)
6-9 VTs
0-3 unknown roles known only to the one having it

[Anakso]

I think I've only been VT once or something.
Been Cop, traitor twice, mafia a couple of times (3?), Lookout... Never SK

Minus the mafia roles I'd like your luck with roles!
Honestly I wouldn't mind being a traitor as much as being a mafia, as long as I don't get NK straight away and converted I think trying to turn my self into a target would be fun.

---------- Post added 2012-10-30 at 06:58 PM ----------

I think we've not seen it before this game Keleb because it's a bad idea!
Majad got killed because the other wolf team knew for a fact he was a wolf and turned on him for the win, had they not known then it would have been a chance and Majad would have still had a shot If you try and alliance the first team to traitor the others will win, or town will win as they both gut each other out of vengeance depending how many of them town takes out and how many town the wolfs take out before one back stabs the other

[Deleted]

I'm not very experienced in this but, like I said before, I agree with Lysah on the VT roles being boring.

The idea that Keleb gave, of them watching a movie and if you're watching a horror movie you'll be able to scare away the assassin. If we use this, there should be atleast 4 movies that a person can watch and you can only watch a movie once, like you can only watch one horror movie then you can't do it anymore.

The problem with this is, that once you use a movie that scares the assassin away, what will the other movies do? Wake up the Town and a start a gunfight? Will it give us some kind of info or something? I like the idea but it's pretty damn flawed...


About the Scum. I think, if there's more than one Scum team, there shouldn't be 3 scums in each team, like I previously said. It's very unbalanced and that was pretty obvious in this game. I agree that we should give VT a power, or reduce VT and put new roles that are more interesting, after all, they are still VT, just with a little power.


Assuming we have 20 people. There should be 3 scum teams(using the same layout for the last game (19)).

One team of Sk consisting of 2 people(maybe just 1(I doubt that would be fun though)), two teams of Wolfs/Mafia consisting of two people only and the rest are either VTs or some VTs with power, or the rest are all VTs with some kind of power.

What does everyone think?

[Rollo]

I was thinking having a lookout/traitor on scum side could be interesting. I like multi faction games as well, but it only works when there are a ton of people playing, or less than half members as scum. I think the last game would have been enter with two people per team.

Having a mafia/wolf as a traitor as well could be interesting. If we have 19 players again, I think we should have a max 6 scum, and maybe a town night kill (vig). It gives 3 night kills, but more forgiving day lynches. Also, back to the traitor/lookout for scum, I wouldn't have both together, the lookout would be a wolf in search of the other wolf team as a way to reduce their numbers. A three man team would have 1 lookout. That lookout cannot attack unless he/she is the last on the team, but they can't lookout and kill same night. As for a traitor, have 1 person on each team listed as a traitor. If they get night killed by the opposing faction, they have the choice to switch sides, but there original team won't know. Their win condition can either be with original team (if unturned) or new team (if turned). They can tell their new team who was on their old team (unless they have a dual win condition), but they cannot tell their original team they've been turned. They would have access to both forums at that point, and it would get tricky if both traitors get turned. Maybe even add a GF/Alpha role whose sole purpose is to secretly change a night kill target to one of his own in hopes of killing the traitor. Adds another element of turmoil to the scum.