Stop Hating People That Hate Daily's

[Realsykes]

LFR is a raid. I said outside the raid.
PVP is not pve
Holiday events aren't always around and frankly relying on them is a bad way to moderate progression
Scenarios and dungeons stop being worthwhile pretty fast. About two days after I hit 90 I was done with them.
Crafting and AH is more or less the same as scenarios and dungeons they get done pretty fast.

Your list also forgot pug Sha groups but that's in a raid. Let me rephrase my statement. People want a PVE way to get gear outside a raid that isn't dailies that is higher than ilvl 463.

Tbc offered many of the options but more importantly "double dipping' that the developers hate existed then as it has in every expansion up until this point. Cataclysm also offered rep gear in addition to what you bought with JP and VP and I could do as little or as much of those dungeons for rep as I wanted to and as my play style allowed. You didn't have to log in every day YOU CHOSE to log in every day. In fact they changed the daily dungeon reward system so that you could still get the bonus without logging in every day.

The system was vastly more flexible for casual players and really raiders to. If I wanted to log off after the raid I could still get the maximum bonus by doing my daily dungeon whenever I wanted to and wouldn't be behind in any real sense. You may receive this reward 7 more times a week. Even that system was reversed for some nonsense fucking reason.

Stop. Right there.

You basically just answered any and all questions towards any casual discrepancy.

This expansion was obviously not made for casuals, in theory high end game/the TRUE game was NEVER made for casuals.

You're not entitled to anything, if the developers made this game challenging to a certain degree, and you cannot meet those needs to get on that level, that is YOUR FAULT.

Not Blizzards for not making things just for you, they made a game, plain and simple.

Your.

Fault.

If you don't like dailies/are too lazy, that's your problem, because guess what?

It's *gasp* wait for it...a game.

Just because 10 year old Timothy doesn't have the reflexes to 360 no scope in Call of Duty on the pro circuit, doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to an auto lock on when he decides to play. That's not how the game was made, sorry.

[Glorious Leader]

They did what dungeons did in BC and isn't that what players have been asking for is another BC.......

Quite accurate. I did normals in BC far in excess of the normal gear progression curve because well hey I wanted the rep. "double dipping" as they called has in reality almost always been in the game, longer than dailies IIRC and more importantly is just an excuse from them to remove the reward that dungeons have had for a long time because it's an easy source of content for them. Or an easy tie to keep players to the game longer. That's it. They don't really care about the fact that it was rewarding except in so far in that it was an avenue of content that wasn't being fully exploited to keep players going and subscribing to the game. It's a really cynical calculation on their part.

[Jtbrig7390]

Stop. Right there.

You basically just answered any and all questions towards any casual discrepancy.

This expansion was obviously not made for casuals, in theory high end game/the TRUE game was NEVER made for casuals.

You're not entitled to anything, if the developers made this game challenging to a certain degree, and you cannot meet those needs to get on that level, that is YOUR FAULT.

Not Blizzards for not making things just for you, they made a game, plain and simple.

Your.

Fault.

If you don't like dailies/are too lazy, that's your problem, because guess what?

It's *gasp* wait for it...a game.

Just because 10 year old Timothy doesn't have the reflexes to 360 no scope in Call of Duty on the pro circuit, doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to an auto lock on when he decides to play. That's not how the game was made, sorry.

No it is blizzards fault cause they keep changing shit that dose not need to be changed look at cata they wanted "Hard" heroic's and it cost them 3 million subs.

So blizzard gets this great idea"We can't make heroic's harder they will leave lets make everything else a LOT longer" so we get long level grind then a daily grind. guess what is going to happen players will get tired of it and leave again.

Edit: Personally i think all blizzard care's about now is keeping sub numbers up as long as they can and that is why so much is gated in MOP.
I have said it since the start of MOP: MOP feels like the grind of BC with the easy dungeons of Wrath......

[Glorious Leader]

If you were good enough to get 4/4 in BoT in quest blues then surely the heroics weren't too hard for you either? And no I kept mostly out of the heroics argument at the time, it didn't affect me because they weren't too hard *for me* and what do I care if they get nerfed. Think its a shame they did as now people approach raiding without having cut thier teeth on the most basic of group play concepts. But eitherways for *me* it didn't matter.

They weren't but that wasn't the point either. As far as I know nobody defending heroics in cata ever or rarely used the argument hey look you don't need them. The truth is you really didn't and I was not on the bleeding edge of progression. People chose to do them. Just as now. Let me ask you what do you care if dailies get nerfed even more? What do you care if the rep requirement from valor is gone? Or if any moderate reasonable suggestion is being made?

[PowerGamez]

I'm a soloer myself and always said once i get my first ever LK solo i am 100% done with wow. I have gotten to 14% 2 times and the rest around 18% so i need every little extra gear i can get. Thx to blizzard they have slowed down my progress of soloing with this rep on the gear crap.

I have already decided that once my time is up LK kill or not I'm done all they do is try to gate players and then throw out stupid reasons for why they did it.
Those who enjoy daily's and the gating I'm happy for you. I was personally giving blizzard one more shot after the crap that was cata but I can no longer can i deal with it.
Sub ends at the end of the month and i would like to finally get the LK kill *Solo* don't see it happening with bad RNG and Rep on gear.
2 weeks of LFR/Sha kills and 1 Gall kill all i got was gold.......


/end rant

What the what? You're complaining about not being able to do something people did 12 months ago and have the audacity to blame it on not having enough gear which is Blizzards fault for not feeding you epics? Thanks for unsubbing, the community is far better without people like you

[Glorious Leader]

Stop. Right there.

You basically just answered any and all questions towards any casual discrepancy.

This expansion was obviously not made for casuals, in theory high end game/the TRUE game was NEVER made for casuals.

You're not entitled to anything, if the developers made this game challenging to a certain degree, and you cannot meet those needs to get on that level, that is YOUR FAULT.

Not Blizzards for not making things just for you, they made a game, plain and simple.

Your.

Fault.

If you don't like dailies/are too lazy, that's your problem, because guess what?

It's *gasp* wait for it...a game.

Just because 10 year old Timothy doesn't have the reflexes to 360 no scope in Call of Duty on the pro circuit, doesn't mean he's automatically entitled to an auto lock on when he decides to play. That's not how the game was made, sorry.

You know I could replace every instance of the word "daily" with the phrase "heroic dungeon" and we'd be back in cataclysm all over again. The only people who have entitlement issues are the ones who insist that no changes be made even moderate ones to aid other players. They are entitled to their experience that they love and fuck everyone else.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 09:18 PM ----------

What the what? You're complaining about not being able to do something people did 12 months ago and have the audacity to blame it on not having enough gear which is Blizzards fault for not feeding you epics? Thanks for unsubbing, the community is far better without people like you

Cataclysm 2.0 folks. I expect a Blog here shortly about the changes being made. "WoW dailies are gay" or something to that effect. The people who like this incarnation of the game are the people who should be actively calling and protesting for the really reasonable suggestions that many of us are asking for.

[Sills]

I just dont see what was so wrong with allowing people to gain rep through dailies AND dungeon rep grinding. This, for me, would truly be allowing people to play however they want. I've had to take a break from dailies (which looks like it will become an extended break) because im just tired of it. I dont even really need the gear since my group is progressing nicely though raid content but im a completionist. I need to get all the factions to exalted and Blizz is making it very hard for me to satisfy this need.

[Tart]

I'm pretty sure that the top hundred heroic world kills were all done with little to no valor gear, so in reality it's more of the people in the middle who might "need" valor gear.

And im pretty sure that an overwhelming percentage of this forum isnt in the top hundred heroic guilds either.

[Deleted]

It's not the rep or the dailies that hurts, they of course 'optional' as many people have said - it's not strictly true, because as a raider, to remain competitive, you want to gear up asap and to do that VP gear is required, to get that you need VP's (duh!!) and now rep which you can't get by smapping heroics - and the two together are not working well for those 'raider' types (like me), they are a compulsory evil where we aim to be valour capped each week (so we can buy the gear that boosts our numbers) and we need faction rep to be able to buy them - personally I need a helm and legs, thats 4500VP or 4.5 weeks more grinding on top of maintaining a healthy family life, a job and a reasonable raid schedule.... my /played at level90 is 10 days in total, the game was released Spet 24th, it took me a week to level and since then I have been doing dailies and raiding.

I have read in various posts that this system is working fantastic for people who value the 'prestige' of gaining exalted tabards mounts and achievs (outside of raid).

VP's and gear should never of been attached to the revamped rep system as it's combining to opposing factions - those that want to gear to raid and forget about dailies and rep there after - and those that log on to enjoy the game (outside of raids) in it's entirity, in no particular rush........

What can put me into a sprial of despair, the option to upgrade gear, the new faction in 5.1 etc, means we will be forever grinding a mix of rep and VP well beyond the 'rush' at the start of every content patch.... because we're raiders and more stats = more DPS/TPS/HPS and we will feel continually punished by haivng to work very hard in the land of tedium just to remain competive raiders.

My personal feeling is that rep rewards were set too low and the VP caps are not high enough, I would of liked the time I spent going crazy all out to have me exalted with all factions and requiring less VP than I do to complete my gear requirements - again, I've not slacked, my played time works out to spending over 5hours a day of my life in the past month playing this game and I am still several weeks away from reaching those goals - the balance is all wrong.


I certainly hope that Blizz realises that this model is not a sustainable one in it's current format and somehow manages to find a change that makes the raiders less upset and the casual gamers remaining smiley faced.

[Realsykes]

No it is blizzards fault cause they keep changing shit that dose not need to be changed look at cata they wanted "Hard" heroic's and it cost them 3 million subs.

So blizzard gets this great idea"We can't make heroic's harder they will leave lets make everything else a LOT longer" so we get long level grind then a daily grind. guess what is going to happen players will get tired of it and leave again.

Edit: Personally i think all blizzard care's about now is keeping sub numbers up as long as they can and that is why so much is gated in MOP.
I have said it since the start of MOP: MOP feels like the grind of BC with the easy dungeons of Wrath......

You're going to lose sub numbers regardless, this path is likely to retain the highest amount of subs, you can't please everyone.

And well yeah, subs = money, and they're a business.

Shocker.

[Jtbrig7390]

What the what? You're complaining about not being able to do something people did 12 months ago and have the audacity to blame it on not having enough gear which is Blizzards fault for not feeding you epics? Thanks for unsubbing, the community is far better without people like you

I guess you didn't get the point of my post.

Me soloing is the same as a raider doing current content aslong as i enjoy it i'm happy i stay subbed and i'm sure there is many people like me.
I'm happy with LFR and enjoy it.

Because getting rep gear is such a Grind and RNG blows in LFR "2 weeks of sha/gall/lfr no loot" it has slowed down my progression a lot.
They already ruined blacksmithing for me*not going to get into that*
Now because LFR/sha/gall loot is a crap RNG i need valor gear and that is something that i can't get due to the rep tied to it.
So unhappy sub is no longer subing.....

[AeneasBK]

What the what? You're complaining about not being able to do something people did 12 months ago and have the audacity to blame it on not having enough gear which is Blizzards fault for not feeding you epics? Thanks for unsubbing, the community is far better without people like you

Yeah I couldn't even bring myself to respond to that joke of a post.

[Jtbrig7390]

You're going to lose sub numbers regardless, this path is likely to retain the highest amount of subs, you can't please everyone.

And well yeah, subs = money, and they're a business.

Shocker.

true but believe it or not there was a point in wow's life where blizzard did care about the player base and didn't see them all as just $$$ signs but that time has passed.

[Glorious Leader]

You're going to lose sub numbers regardless, this path is likely to retain the highest amount of subs, you can't please everyone.

And well yeah, subs = money, and they're a business.

Shocker.

No bussiness not even MMOS operates like that. I can assure you that they aren;t thinking "well hey this might suck and we might lose players but we lose more if we change this or we lose less by being on this system". That's not the calculation they're making. No their objective is to grow the game again and if they see sob loses of any significant measure attributed to dailies they will change things. This path being enough to retains subs isn't proven and more to the point not enough. Blizzard want's to see growth. They don't merely want to just stop the bleeding.

[Realsykes]

You know I could replace every instance of the word "daily" with the phrase "heroic dungeon" and we'd be back in cataclysm all over again. The only people who have entitlement issues are the ones who insist that no changes be made even moderate ones to aid other players. They are entitled to their experience that they love and fuck everyone else.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 09:18 PM ----------



Cataclysm 2.0 folks. I expect a Blog here shortly about the changes being made. "WoW dailies are gay" or something to that effect. The people who like this incarnation of the game are the people who should be actively calling and protesting for the really reasonable suggestions that many of us are asking for.

Minor changes for aid?

Sure.

Another entire outlet that's EASIER for casual players to be on par with hardcore raider gear?

Then we run into the problem of hardcore raiders doing the easy stuff for fastest progression. There would be literally no point in doing the harder stuff if the same gear can be attained at the easier level. Then they sit there and complain they have nothing to do.

So, we have two options. Cater to the casuals who would leave at the drop of a hat if one thing doesn't go their way, or cater to the people who actually put time and effort into your product that you made, and are less likely to scrutinize and are dedicated to your baby? Sure that sounds bias, but how else am I to describe the ideas behind your statements.

[Jtbrig7390]

No bussiness not even MMOS operates like that. I can assure you that they aren;t thinking "well hey this might suck and we might lose players but we lose more if we change this or we lose less by being on this system". That's not the calculation they're making. No their objective is to grow the game again and if they see sob loses of any significant measure attributed to dailies they will change things. This path being enough to retains subs isn't proven and more to the point not enough. Blizzard want's to see growth. They don't merely want to just stop the bleeding.

lets wait for the next Q report and see how much the bleeding as stopped.

I did enjoy how blizzard bragged about being at 10mil subs again when MOP sold...Now Ap's are ending lets see what happens.

[Faroth]

As pointed out the vast majority of your loot = raid finder loot. Which means you have no control in getting into the 470 raid. Your progression is 100% dependent on if those items drop

That sounds familiar...

Oh, it sounds like WoW, TBC, and Wrath of the Lich King raiding model. Unless we really are going to start supporting that Cataclysm really was a better expansion design.

Bear in mind, again, they originally didn't intend to have valor gear at all, but they changed their minds towards the end of beta. 5.1 will have us fully on the intended design for MoP where points upgrade your gear which you got from dungeons and raids.

Dailies should comfortably settle back into additional content to do between those dungeons and raids and I hope to see a lot of pets, mounts, transmog gear, consumable or on-use items, and yes, even crafting patterns. I have no problem with crafting patterns being locked behind grinding reps because WoW really shouldn't have been designed for easy self sufficiency.

I'm surprised, however, that nobody fighting against dailies has acknowledged that until Cataclysm the tabard system was actually gated rep as well.

Gather 4 friends, wear your tabard, run 12 heroics per day, then do dailies. That was the way to maximize your rep gains in BC and Wrath at launch.

[Realsykes]

true but believe it or not there was a point in wow's life where blizzard did care about the player base and didn't see them all as just $$$ signs but that time has passed.

And when was that, exactly?

Please, enlighten me as to this glorious golden age, because i can guarantee you I'll find problems that people had with that expansion too.

[Jtbrig7390]

Minor changes for aid?

Sure.

Another entire outlet that's EASIER for casual players to be on par with hardcore raider gear?

Then we run into the problem of hardcore raiders doing the easy stuff for fastest progression. There would be literally no point in doing the harder stuff if the same gear can be attained at the easier level. Then they sit there and complain they have nothing to do.

So, we have two options. Cater to the casuals who would leave at the drop of a hat if one thing doesn't go their way, or cater to the people who actually put time and effort into your product that you made, and are less likely to scrutinize and are dedicated to your baby? Sure that sounds bias, but how else am I to describe the ideas behind your statements.

Hardcore raiders do the easy stuff already its called LFR so it would not matter where you put the gear hardcore raiders will do it anyway.

[AeneasBK]

What do you care if the rep requirement from valor is gone? Or if any moderate reasonable suggestion is being made?

I don't massively care, its just not necessary to do either. The fraction of the market for whom the best gear for them is ONLY available from VP are so small, and partake in so fwe activities in game, thier opinions on the game design shouldn't count. Don't get me wrong lots of people seem to THINK they ahve to do these dailies, they're just misguided. Basically. And they're gonna regret busting their balls over it when all the VP gear is irrelevant and they only want to spend VP upgrading their raid gear.