Varian Wrynn - spoilers

[Deleted]

Looking forward to this incoming Horde Rebellion/Alliance working together to kick Garrosh his ass and to find out who are loyal to Garrosh and who to Thrall his ideals. Vol'Jin and Baine will go Rebellion ofcourse, but since Vol'Jin is 'dead' he'll be only there in the shadows of the Hordem, waiting for the right time to finish Garrosh. Lor'Themar seems to doubt Garrosh and might think of becoming Chief himself. Sylvanas would agree with Garrosh for the Horde to rule supreme, but only for her own uses.

Well, atleast the Belfs will finally get some story (although i hate Belf paladins).

Good to see Varian become more of a leader and making wiser decision to make the best of it. Although i would love to see Garrosh confront him with the fact that he is not a leader by making him stumble into an ambush. so that he'll doubt himself.

[Magemaer]

Horde needs a legit leader.

Thrall was good for a while. But he's too "human", too green jesus, too weak.

Garrosh is a return to every past horde mistake.

Where's the fierce yet honorable leader? Zul'jin? Don't trust him. The blood elf guy (bob)? A blood elf. Cairne's son? A weakling, he should have killed garrosh as soon as he knew about his father. Sylvanas? Evil and twisted.

Maybe Rexxar.

Horde really needs to find a great leader like the alliance found varian.

[Trassk]

Horde needs a legit leader.

Thrall was good for a while. But he's too "human", too green jesus, too weak.

Garrosh is a return to every past horde mistake.

Where's the fierce yet honorable leader? Zul'jin? Don't trust him. The blood elf guy (bob)? A blood elf. Cairne's son? A weakling, he should have killed garrosh as soon as he knew about his father. Sylvanas? Evil and twisted.

Maybe Rexxar.

Horde really needs to find a great leader like the alliance found varian.

Thrall wasn't weak. And now he's prepared to fight his own misguided people for the sake of the rest of the horde. That takes more balls then anyone can manage.

[Magemaer]

Thrall wasn't weak. And now he's prepared to fight his own misguided people for the sake of the rest of the horde. That takes more balls then anyone can manage.

I see Thrall as a spiritual leader, not an actual day-by-day leader of the horde.

[Deleted]

I miss King Magni...

[gamgee76]

me too was an amazing lore figure about as deep as anyone blizz just sealed all that story away 8(

magni that is

[Scummer]

The Horde need a leader approved by Varian and the Alliance, they're the faction that suffer the most because of it.

The fact of the matter is the Horde's leadership problems has always with the one exception of Thrall brought some sort of destruction and/or death to the Alliance. Their leadership is of the utmost importance to the Alliance especially when they are in a dire circumstance and could possibly bounce back. The Alliance have been the victims here. When their safety rests upon who's in charge of the Horde you know damn well they want to make sure it's somebody they can trust and co-operate with.

Thrall for all his awesomeness is one of the worst judges of character in Warcraft, he would like to think everybody sees eye to eye with him but the fact is they don't. He trusted the Forsaken (Big mistake) and also allowed them to have a freaking Dreadlord as it's second in command which then resulted in the death of Bolvar and Dranosh. He then trusted Garrosh even after all the stunts he pulled in Northrend.

[Galbrei]

Varian is starting to sound a lot like Starcraft's Raynor. Me likey!

[Xilurm]

Now well Varian's is only from an alliance standpoint, there is a massive risk blizzard has here. It they allow the alliance to, after Garrosh's defeat, somehow be part of influencing what the horde does and how it governs itself, this will be the ultimate kill switch for so many horde players, and will feel, to me anyway, like taking a piss on the hordes name and what its meant to develop into on its own accord after Garrosh falls.

I don't get it. When you watch a movie and something that you don't like happens, do you stop watching the movie?

What is it with people quiting over the story?

[Sills]

I really like where Blizz is taking Varian's character although we need to remember that this new attitude of Varian's has come at a cost. He doesnt want to fall for Garrosh's tricks? How many times has he had to fall for them to learn that Garrosh is a bit sneaky?

I dont think it will wind up being that the Alliance dictates who leads the Horde. The QQ would be greater than anything seen from the Alliance over the last few years (and even as an Alliance player, I think it would be justified) and Blizz knows this. The Horde will learn itself what kind of leader it needs/wants. I dont think it will be Rexxar or Saurfang because we wouldve seen those characters involved by now to develop their characters. Baine? Vol'jin? We will have to wait and see mmmm lore omn nom nom

[Dreknar20]

I don't get it. When you watch a movie and something that you don't like happens, do you stop watching the movie?

Because the players are part of the story.
Having the [I]enemy[I] faction occupying your faction is not something Horde players will look kindly upon

[shimargh]

Pretty much covers and fills in some gaps.

Something I got to thinking after hearing this. Well I am horde and don't get much about of hearing Varian talk about the horde how he does, I do see his points and this shows how far he's matured as a character in what he wishes to achieve, that he doesn't give into his rage like he use to or fall for Garrosh's tricks.

However, a major problem I see on the horizon and one blizzard will have to step extremely carefully over.

Well the alliance are aiming for an assured victory, and the horde indeed is fracturing because of Garrosh, and now Varian saying he intends to make the final blow against Garrosh, something about the fact he said they wished to keep horde activity 'in check'?

Now well Varian's is only from an alliance standpoint, there is a massive risk blizzard has here. It they allow the alliance to, after Garrosh's defeat, somehow be part of influencing what the horde does and how it governs itself, this will be the ultimate kill switch for so many horde players, and will feel, to me anyway, like taking a piss on the hordes name and what its meant to develop into on its own accord after Garrosh falls.

The alliance should have no influence on how the horde governs itself, and it should go no further then Varian making a clear statement to the new horde leader how if they come to blows against there will be no mercy blah blah blah. If it goes beyond this and the alliance think they have the right to anything the new horde after Garrosh will have to do, I can just imagine the vast numbers of horde players feeling so pissed at this.

so you're okay with our "schism" but don't want anyone else to form part on it. I was with garrosh, I Thought it could develop better, but meh, with all of you just throwing shit at him for whatever reason,i don't care anymore, i hope for this to go "apeshitly" for the horde, now i just want it to crumble soon, to rebuild faster.

bring it on, whoever "mess" with us will fall, even better if it's Varyan chin

[Deleted]

Cairne's son? A weakling, he should have killed garrosh as soon as he knew about his father.

Horde really needs to find a great leader like the alliance found varian.

A weakling? If he attacked/killed Garrosh he would not be allowed in the Horde anymore because of disrespect for the Warchief, what could he do, turn to the Alliance? haha.. and his father choosed to fight Garrosh in a battle to the death, so it's not really Garrosh his 'fault' when he killed Cairne. Garrosh his blade was poisoned by Magatha without him knowing about it. and when the Grimtotem seeked to take over Thunder Bluff, Baine stood brave and repelled the attack without knowing any form of leadership. he is everything but a coward.

How is Varian a great leader? he has done 'nothing' during the Cataclysm while Garrosh ran over Ashenvale etc. Sure, he has yet do develop his story, but atm he is not a great leader, or any greater than Garrosh.

[Dreknar20]

so you're okay with our "schism" but don't want anyone else to form part on it. I was with garrosh, I Thought it could develop better, but meh, with all of you just throwing shit at him for whatever reason,i don't care anymore, i hope for this to go "apeshitly" for the horde, now i just want it to crumble soon, to rebuild faster.

Same boat here son.
Hopefully there will be a future badass Orc to hang my cape on.

But this hole ending of the MoP story line with the Horde fighting each other makes it seem the wrong faction to be on.
While the Alliance come together and become stronger, we have to watch our own faction go down the shitter
Hopefully when it does go down, it dsnt make Horde players feel like crap too much

[Scummer]

Because the players are part of the story.
Having the [I]enemy[I] faction occupying your faction is not something Horde players will look kindly upon

Ofc they shouldn't occupy Orgrimmar in a similar fashion to the Orcs in Undercity, but they should play some sort of role in the Horde's new Warchief. When Horde leadership goes bad (As it often does) it's the Alliance that bear the brunt of it's mistakes and are left to clean up the pieces. They shouldn't be left in the dark when something such as this is of a matter of the Alliances safety and future.

[purebalance]

The Horde need a leader approved by Varian and the Alliance, they're the faction that suffer the most because of it.

The fact of the matter is the Horde's leadership problems has always with the one exception of Thrall brought some sort of destruction and/or death to the Alliance. Their leadership is of the utmost importance to the Alliance especially when they are in a dire circumstance and could possibly bounce back. The Alliance have been the victims here. When their safety rests upon who's in charge of the Horde you know damn well they want to make sure it's somebody they can trust and co-operate with.

Thrall for all his awesomeness is one of the worst judges of character in Warcraft, he would like to think everybody sees eye to eye with him but the fact is they don't. He trusted the Forsaken (Big mistake) and also allowed them to have a freaking Dreadlord as it's second in command which then resulted in the death of Bolvar and Dranosh. He then trusted Garrosh even after all the stunts he pulled in Northrend.

Ummm Alliance should have no say in who rules the horde. Where does it say that alliance defeated the horde with the Garrosh raid? They fight GARROSH not the horde. They are still at war with the horde just a temporary truce perhaps to take out Garrosh.

If Hitler died and Germany had an election in the middle of WWII would the allied forces have a say in who got elected there? No, one of the high ranking leaders would take over and we'd be fighting that person instead of Hitler. Same case here. Alliance is taking out someone who has been deposed. They did not defeat the horde. They get zero input as to the new leader.

When the raid is over it will go like this for alliance: "Well uh hey Alliance guys thanks for helping us remove this guy, but get out." Just like when you help Therazane remove the Twilight's Hammer Cult. She basically says "Yeah I needed your help, but GTFO please".

[frogger237]

Now well Varian's is only from an alliance standpoint, there is a massive risk blizzard has here. It they allow the alliance to, after Garrosh's defeat, somehow be part of influencing what the horde does and how it governs itself, this will be the ultimate kill switch for so many horde players, and will feel, to me anyway, like taking a piss on the hordes name and what its meant to develop into on its own accord after Garrosh falls.

The alliance should have no influence on how the horde governs itself, and it should go no further then Varian making a clear statement to the new horde leader how if they come to blows against there will be no mercy blah blah blah. If it goes beyond this and the alliance think they have the right to anything the new horde after Garrosh will have to do, I can just imagine the vast numbers of horde players feeling so pissed at this.

I didn't listen to the audio, and im not saying what you think is going to happen will, but if it does you realize its a war, but usually in real life in a war if the winning side doesn't completely wipe them out/take over the country they do place certain requirements/restrictions on the losing country.

[Trassk]

so you're okay with our "schism" but don't want anyone else to form part on it. I was with garrosh, I Thought it could develop better, but meh, with all of you just throwing shit at him for whatever reason,i don't care anymore, i hope for this to go "apeshitly" for the horde, now i just want it to crumble soon, to rebuild faster.

bring it on, whoever "mess" with us will fall, even better if it's Varyan chin

What I felt I just read here was yet another Garrosh fanboy that can't see the bad things Garrosh is doing to the horde, and created a bubble to deny him of any wrong doing. Which, thankfully seems to be a minority now.

If you can't accept what Garrosh has become, thats your deal, I'll just take pleasure in nuking the crap out of him together with my horde brethren.

[Scummer]

Ummm Alliance should have no say in who rules the horde. Where does it say that alliance defeated the horde with the Garrosh raid? They fight GARROSH not the horde. They are still at war with the horde just a temporary truce perhaps to take out Garrosh.

This isn't a matter of supposedly defeating the Horde then bullying them into becoming an Alliance controlled State. You've got it all wrong.

We do not know what the situation of the war will be after Garrosh's demise, but everything is pointing to a time of peace, not continued aggression at least until the next expansion. No leader of the Horde or especially Alliance want to see this war continue. Then there's the fact wrathion keeps talking about a great threat that we will need to be united for. So yes it looks like for a time there will be peace.

The Alliance should have a say as they don't want a repeat. As I mentioned this isn't a matter of them shoving their weight around, but instead having council with the Horde during a time of peace.

If Hitler died and Germany had an election in the middle of WWII would the allied forces have a say in who got elected there? No, one of the high ranking leaders would take over and we'd be fighting that person instead of Hitler. Same case here. Alliance is taking out someone who has been deposed. They did not defeat the horde. They get zero input as to the new leader.

Again refer to above, everything is pointing to a moment of peace not war.

When the raid is over it will go like this for alliance: "Well uh hey Alliance guys thanks for helping us remove this guy, but get out." Just like when you help Therazane remove the Twilight's Hammer Cult. She basically says "Yeah I needed your help, but GTFO please".

Right so Vol'jin, Baine and Lor'themar are just gonna rebel so that they can continue this War? Bs.
The Alliance will be in a position where they have to make sure there is a continued peace and the first step is make sure they have the right people for the job.

As a whole I don't think you've understood what I've said, or the current story arc involving practically every leader aiming for peace.

[Talen]

The alliance should have no influence on how the horde governs itself, and it should go no further then Varian making a clear statement to the new horde leader how if they come to blows against there will be no mercy blah blah blah. If it goes beyond this and the alliance think they have the right to anything the new horde after Garrosh will have to do, I can just imagine the vast numbers of horde players feeling so pissed at this.

If the Alliance win, dictating terms to the Hord eis EXACTLY what they shoudl eb doing.

Disarm.
Leave Azshara, Ashenvale, Feralas, Felwood, Lordaeron and the other occupied territories
Pay reparations
The Horde can keep Mulgore, Durotar and the Barrens - but the Barrens Road will be Alliance territory, and they'll be setting up bases to keep an eye on the Horde.
Criminals to be handed over for Trial.

We should see Tirasgaarde rebuilt, and the Alliance Durotar incursion fortifed. Theramore and Northwatch, and the Alliance Barrens forts built up. We should see the Horde removed from territories the Alliance considers theirs. An Alliance embassy in Orgrimmar and an overseer in council.

In short, the Alliance SHOULD have a say in Horde affairs.

***IF*** they win. They won't. Blizzard can't allow that. So there will be some fudge whereby the Allaicne "victory" will not be a victory. The Horde will say sorry and the Alliance will trust them and forgive the atrocities and let them keep the land they have conquered.

Because, after all, it was Garroshes fault.

And everyone will be happy.

EJL