Poll: Is Garrosh a suitable Leader?

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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    You know, they all are still very alive. Just irrelevant and hopelessly behind on progress path, while rest of Europe and Asia that were much more moderate in their wars gone far ahead of them and doesn't seem to "fall with no exception" anytime soon. Well, if being remembered as "some obscure warmongering barbarians that were routed by civilized people" is your idea of "legacy", then yes, Garrosh is perfect guy to reach it.
    they took on the world and won yes they havent done much since ghengis khan but thats not his fault he himself is remembered just like garrosh wouldve been remembered had he won


    heres gheghis khans legacy and im sure he wouldnt give a shit about what western civilisation has to say about him as long as he is remembered fondly by his people


    My point is great conquerers are remembered and beloved by there people leaders who just sit around doing shit in the middle of a barren desert arnt

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    What kind of attitude is that? Respect and follow the guy in charge no matter what. I'm sorry, but I like to make up my own opinions.
    And Garrosh has done nothing good for the Horde. The one big victory against the Alliance, Theramore, hasn't done anything good for the Horde. It has cost the lives of a lot of Horde soldiers, it made the Alliance aware that Garrosh is a threat and it made the Horde aware that Garrosh is a problem that they need to dispose of. And for what? They didn't even take Theramore. They just wanted to destroy the place to then go ahead and attack the Night Elves. But that failed and the Horde has won nothing. In the meantime his pet blackrock orc goes around and kills all those brave enough to oppose him.

    Here's the thing. Garrosh will lose. We already know that. Or at least we know that both Alliance and Horde will unite to attack Orgrimmar. Both Alliance AND Horde. That includes orcs.

    Garrosh is the villain here, and it's as clear as day. I don't understand why you can't see that.
    Were at WAR btw...so I dont see how Theramores fall is even debatable...
    I never disputed Garrosh becoming a villain, simply said I dont mind him as our warchief, and recognized the good hes done, despite the bad guy things hes going to do. I dont understand how thats hard to understand. You may be mistaking me for a Garrosh fanboy?

  3. #123
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    Were at WAR btw...so I dont see how Theramores fall is even debatable...
    I never disputed Garrosh becoming a villain, simply said I dont mind him as our warchief, and recognized the good hes done, despite the bad guy things hes going to do. I dont understand how thats hard to understand. You may be mistaking me for a Garrosh fanboy?
    Hate you break it to you but you sound like one. And using the tiresome old retort of 'this is WARcraft' doesn't make anything in the story validated by a character, not when as nindoriel pointed out clearly, nothing Garrosh has done has ensured the hordes future.
    #boycottchina

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Hate you break it to you but you sound like one. And using the tiresome old retort of 'this is WARcraft' doesn't make anything in the story validated by a character, not when as nindoriel pointed out clearly, nothing Garrosh has done has ensured the hordes future.
    I dont know what to say man...you dont seem to comprehend english very well... Just because im not 100% anti Garrosh means im pro Garrosh? Ive said what ive had to on that but let me ask you...
    Do you hold Thrall accountable for this "mess" since it was he, and he alone who basically caused this split in the Horde?

  5. #125
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    I dont know what to say man...you dont seem to comprehend english very well... Just because im not 100% anti Garrosh means im pro Garrosh? Ive said what ive had to on that but let me ask you...
    Do you hold Thrall accountable for this "mess" since it was he, and he alone who basically caused this split in the Horde?
    I'm sorry your feble attempt to turn it back on Thrall as being responsible for this is just an obvious attempt as trying to vex, which I can easily counter.
    Even when he is not leading the horde, Thrall is doing things that end up strengthening the horde, and keeping it alive, since not only did be bring the goblins into the horde, but also kept orgrimmar from being destroyed. Thrall knows well the mistake he made in giving Garrosh power, he paid for that with the loss of cairne, but he isn't anymore accountable for Garrosh's actions anymore then king terenas is responsible for Arthas, or Malfurion is responsible for Staghelm
    #boycottchina

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    Were at WAR btw...so I dont see how Theramores fall is even debatable...
    I never disputed Garrosh becoming a villain, simply said I dont mind him as our warchief, and recognized the good hes done, despite the bad guy things hes going to do. I dont understand how thats hard to understand. You may be mistaking me for a Garrosh fanboy?
    Yeah Garrosh did a lot of good. He built the Autobahn.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Hate you break it to you but you sound like one. And using the tiresome old retort of 'this is WARcraft' doesn't make anything in the story validated by a character, not when as nindoriel pointed out clearly, nothing Garrosh has done has ensured the hordes future.
    I get the impression you take this far too seriously. Almost reads as if you would assault anybody who speaks good of Garrosh were they saying it to your face.

    Its late at night so I'll leave you with a small list of the good Garrosh has done for the Horde, whether you accept it or not is a different problem altogether:

    1. Reinforced Orgrimmar = Better protection for the horde races that call the city home.
    2. Advances into Ashenvale have secured vital lumber for the Horde.
    3. Brought the Dragonmaw into the Horde.
    4. Brought down the staging point of any future Alliance attack on the Horde in Kalimdor (Argue the means all you want, it needed to be done to protect the Tauren, Trolls, Orcs and Goblins from alliance invasion. Remember Taurajo.)
    5. Ordered a more mechanised military and viable navy for the Horde.
    6. Successfully led the Warsong Offensive to victory against the Scourge (Don't bother arguing whether you think this is correct, lore says he was praised as a huge success for his Northrend campaign)
    7. Brought the Houjin Pandaren into the Horde.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I'm sorry your feble attempt to turn it back on Thrall as being responsible for this is just an obvious attempt as trying to vex, which I can easily counter.
    Even when he is not leading the horde, Thrall is doing things that end up strengthening the horde, and keeping it alive, since not only did be bring the goblins into the horde, but also kept orgrimmar from being destroyed. Thrall knows well the mistake he made in giving Garrosh power, he paid for that with the loss of cairne, but he isn't anymore accountable for Garrosh's actions anymore then king terenas is responsible for Arthas, or Malfurion is responsible for Staghelm
    HAHAHA ooohhh man...you're really something. First of all Garrosh wasnt responsible for Cairnes death...this leads me to believe you did not read the story and/or are simply blinded by your hate of Garrosh. Terenas/Arthas and Malfurion/Staghelm are terribad comparisons dude...like, really? By your ideals Thrall appointing Garrosh Warchief is by far one of THE WORSE mistakes the new horde has seen. How could such a great warchief not see this immature, emo, dishonorable, hateful, inexperienced, warmongering, arrogant, ignorant, whatever else you Garrosh haters say, Orc? Thrall had plenty of other, better candidates imo. So enough with the double standards man.

  9. #129
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    I get the impression you take this far too seriously. Almost reads as if you would assault anybody who speaks good of Garrosh were they saying it to your face.
    And yet you decided to make bulletpoints on your opinion of the matter.

    Its late at night so I'll leave you with a small list of the good Garrosh has done for the Horde, whether you accept it or not is a different problem altogether:

    1. Reinforced Orgrimmar = Better protection for the horde races that call the city home.
    2. Advances into Ashenvale have secured vital lumber for the Horde.
    3. Brought the Dragonmaw into the Horde.
    4. Brought down the staging point of any future Alliance attack on the Horde in Kalimdor (Argue the means all you want, it needed to be done to protect the Tauren, Trolls, Orcs and Goblins from alliance invasion. Remember Taurajo.)
    5. Ordered a more mechanised military and viable navy for the Horde.
    6. Successfully led the Warsong Offensive to victory against the Scourge (Don't bother arguing whether you think this is correct, lore says he was praised as a huge success for his Northrend campaign)
    7. Brought the Houjin Pandaren into the Horde.
    1 - 'moved all none orcs to the edge of the city so he wouldn't have to deal with that scum' I believe was how Garrosh refered to other races of the horde.
    2 - His 'advance' into ashenvale failed when Varian pushed them back
    3 - What exactly have they done since then? just proving once more that Garrosh only see's orcs as the superior race.
    4 - He used a tactic that he killed one of his own generals, he used the rest of the horde as pawns, he showed he is a coward and has not honor.
    5 - None of which has ever shown to be effective in survival since in every major encounter he loses his fleet in one way or another.
    6 - Oh I don't need to even dig into this one, he didn't do sod all for the offensive against the scourge, it was Saurfang who lead the attack for the horde, and Garrosh was just a mindless puppet used in icc for a buff, he wasn't even there when icc opened, so really, he stepped in after the events of the raid on the citadel. How brave.
    7 - He, like to every other horde race, forced the pandaren to endure a trial by death, he regarded them as scum and only took them on because they were extra cannon fodder for him.

    Keep posting all you want about how you think Garrosh dumps gold bricks in the morning, but your never win the argument. Garrosh is set to lose, and its so easy for me now to show why he's the worst thing to happen to the horde.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 12:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    HAHAHA ooohhh man...you're really something. First of all Garrosh wasnt responsible for Cairnes death...this leads me to believe you did not read the story and/or are simply blinded by your hate of Garrosh. Terenas/Arthas and Malfurion/Staghelm are terribad comparisons dude...like, really? By your ideals Thrall appointing Garrosh Warchief is by far one of THE WORSE mistakes the new horde has seen. How could such a great warchief not see this immature, emo, dishonorable, hateful, inexperienced, warmongering, arrogant, ignorant, whatever else you Garrosh haters say, Orc? Thrall had plenty of other, better candidates imo. So enough with the double standards man.
    Read my above. It honestly doesn't matter what you have to say of it now, since we're be getting rid of him, and theres sob all you can do about it.
    Oh and I do read the lore, and when they show a character as a baddie, which si exactly what Garrosh developed into, well its kind of funny when two years before I was saying on the forums how bad Garrosh was, and while guys like you told me he was here to stay for good and he would be warchief from here on, it seems I had the right initiative, while guys like yourself failed to see it.
    #boycottchina

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    Were at WAR btw...so I dont see how Theramores fall is even debatable...
    I never disputed Garrosh becoming a villain, simply said I dont mind him as our warchief, and recognized the good hes done, despite the bad guy things hes going to do. I dont understand how thats hard to understand. You may be mistaking me for a Garrosh fanboy?
    We're only at war because Garrosh is too stupid to realize he picked a fight he couldn't finish. A fight he started for no reason. He hasn't done any good.
    If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

  11. #131
    Merely a Setback Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    We're only at war because Garrosh is too stupid to realize he picked a fight he couldn't finish. A fight he started for no reason. He hasn't done any good.
    exactly. Those who assume Garrosh has done good for the horde, there naive. The horde has lost so many soldiers and battles recently, even if people think its won ground, its only won it because of so many of its numbers being killed.
    #boycottchina

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    exactly. Those who assume Garrosh has done good for the horde, there naive. The horde has lost so many soldiers and battles recently, even if people think its won ground, its only won it because of so many of its numbers being killed.
    So I guess war is all about fairies, rainbows, ponies, and love?
    Oh and I like how you totally ignored my last post regarding Thrall.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    So I guess war is all about fairies, rainbows, ponies, and love?
    Oh and I like how you totally ignored my last post regarding Thrall.
    Actually if you decided to read my post you'd see I drew up Thralls fault in leaving Garrosh in charge and how it cost him one of his best friends.

    See, you again make a redundent argument in assuming unless the story is about acting like raving behemoths and bloodthirsty savages, then it must be all softcore. Go play warhammer online if you don't like it
    #boycottchina

  14. #134
    Herald of the Titans Kuthe's Avatar
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    Horde needs a strong leader.
    Garrosh is strong.

    Horde should be about dominating the Alliance, not making treaties with them.
    Back to a boring leader next expansion.
    Yey.
    We stopped searching for monsters under our beds when we realized that they were inside us.

    Tell me something, my friend. You ever dance with the devil in the pale moonlight?

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by punksandskins View Post
    So I guess war is all about fairies, rainbows, ponies, and love?
    Oh and I like how you totally ignored my last post regarding Thrall.
    War is about having something to fight for. Garrosh doesn't have anything to fight for. He's started the war just to have a war.
    War is about knowing how to allocate resources to best serve your forces. Garrosh thinks that all resources and people should be mindlessly thrown into the war machine.
    War is about uniting your people under a common cause. Garrosh has consistently splintered the Horde for the "betterment" of the orcs at the expense of all other Horde races.
    If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

  16. #136
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    He is a rough baddie, and therefore people don't like him. Easy as that. Who cares that he did more to advance the Horde in one year than Thrall and Vol'jin for, like, a decade?

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    War is about having something to fight for. Garrosh doesn't have anything to fight for. He's started the war just to have a war.
    Uh.....not really
    Its not just mindless war.

    There is a purpose to it, to secure better lands and better future for the Horde.
    Nations are forged in blood and iron. You dont become the worlds superpower through handshakes and blowjobs, only war can achieve that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 01:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    War is about uniting your people under a common cause. Garrosh has consistently splintered the Horde for the "betterment" of the orcs at the expense of all other Horde races.
    True, but its not like the other racial leaders are really trying to work together to win are they?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    He is a rough baddie, and therefore people don't like him. Easy as that. Who cares that he did more to advance the Horde in one year than Thrall and Vol'jin for, like, a decade?
    What advances are you talking about? Segregating all the "inferior" races in Orgrimmar? Starting a war for no reason with enemies he can't defeat? Starving the citizens to use resources on war machines? Allying with warmongering former enemies?

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 09:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Uh.....not really
    Its not just mindless war.

    There is a purpose to it, to secure better lands and better future for the Horde.
    Nations are forged in blood and iron. You dont become the worlds superpower through handshakes and blowjobs, only war can achieve that.
    Ok, so Lebensraum... We know how that turned out...

    And why is he trying to become the world's super power? Why does he want to subjugate everyone to his will?

    True, but its not like the other racial leaders are really trying to work together to win are they?
    Horde wise, not yet. I suspect Baine, Lor'Themar and Vol'Jin, if he comes out of the shadows, will start to get together soon. Alliance has humans, dwarves and nelves so far uniting under Varian for a common goal.
    Last edited by grisset; 2012-11-10 at 01:23 AM.
    If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    1. Reinforced Orgrimmar = Better protection for the horde races that call the city home.
    Was it Garrosh, who single-handedly built that city? And who says Thrall would not have done something similar. The city was destroyed, of course they would rebuilt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    2. Advances into Ashenvale have secured vital lumber for the Horde.
    They've been doing that for years, even before Garrosh came into the Horde. I've never really understood why they needed the lumber from Ashenvale so desperately. There are so many other places to chop lumber.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    3. Brought the Dragonmaw into the Horde.
    Actually that was me. I remember vividly how I went there on my Blood Elf mage and got the Dragonmaw to rejoin the Horde.Garrosh didn't do a damn thing.
    Seriously, though. It's one of those things, it's not really a big plan or a strategy that was there, it was just the Dragonmaw joined the Horde, the Wildhammer joined the Alliance. Just like with Blood Elves, Draenei, Taunka, Frostborn, Worgen, Goblins, Jinyu, Hozen.

    He didn't have that big plan of bringing the Dragonmaw into the Horde that he worked on tirelessly for months. It was like "look, there's orcs, let's get them to join.". It's a bit meh, but alright let's say that's a point for him. He strengthend the Horde's forces.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    4. Brought down the staging point of any future Alliance attack on the Horde in Kalimdor (Argue the means all you want, it needed to be done to protect the Tauren, Trolls, Orcs and Goblins from alliance invasion. Remember Taurajo.)
    Taurajo was nothing compared to Theramore. What Garrosh did was use the races of the Horde for his war. He has send his soldiers into battle to die needlessly. He knew they were going to drop that bomb on that place anyway. What kind of leader just throws away the lifes of his soldiers like that.

    In Taurajo the Alliance didn't kill civilians and they actually punished the looters that went in there to plunder. The Alliance didn't drop a manabomb on that place to annihilate everything. It needed to be done to protect the Horde? Are you delusional? Theramore was no threat. If there was one person in the whole WoW universe that stood for peace between the Alliance and the Horde it was Jaina.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    5. Ordered a more mechanised military and viable navy for the Horde.
    The thing here is that, it's not so important what he does, as much as what he wants to achieve. I will totally admit that he showed he's a good tactician. Garrosh is not stupid. And he strengthened the military forces. But he did that because he wants war. And don't tell me its World of Warcraft. There is no big war going on between the Alliance and the Horde. There are no daily battles in Durotar and Elwynn.

    Strong military is what Garrosh needs to be victorious. But it's his intentions we should judge. Why attack Allaince cities in the first place? Why does the Horde need another war?

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    6. Successfully led the Warsong Offensive to victory against the Scourge (Don't bother arguing whether you think this is correct, lore says he was praised as a huge success for his Northrend campaign)
    Fair point. Although it wasn't just the Horde that fought the Scourge, the Alliance forces were in there, too. And it wasn't Garrosh alone on the Horde side either. And I'm sure if Saurfang wouldn't have been there to keep him in check Garrosh would've done something stupid. But alright let's say another point, because the war against the Scourge was a good cause.

    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    7. Brought the Houjin Pandaren into the Horde.
    No he didnt. He didn't even know they existed until the first one walked up into his throne room. They came to him simply because they are adventurers and they met Horde soldiers on the Wandering Isle.

    So, Garrosh is not an idiot. He knows what he wants, he knows his fair share of tactics. He did help the Horde no doubt, but most of what he did was to fuel his war. Bringing the Dragonmaw in to have more grunts to do his bidding. Building strong weapons so that he could defeat his enemies. But what has his war so far brought the orcs. Good weaponry gives you nothing if you use it wrong.

    Theramore has not helped the Horde. As I said before, it has given the Horde and the Alliance a reason to dispose of Garrosh.
    Last edited by mmocedbf46d113; 2012-11-10 at 01:28 AM.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by grisset View Post
    Ok, so Lebensraum... We know how that turned out...

    And why is he trying to become the world's super power? Why does he want to subjugate everyone to his will?
    l.
    Manifest Destiny......remember how that worked out?

    Why does he want to become a superpower? Who dsnt? What leader wldnt want their nation to become stronger and more powerful.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 01:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    They've been doing that for years, even before Garrosh came into the Horde. I've never really understood why they needed the lumber from Ashenvale so desperately. There are so many other places to chop lumber.
    .
    But Thrall didnt really press for it.
    Garrosh turned it from border skirmishes to full scale invasion.

    And apprantly Ashenvele is the best place to harvest resources, since it was the only thing the Horde leaders could think of in the meeting during the Shattering
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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