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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Waaldo View Post
    What a bunch of children. If Romney got elected the same thing would be happening.
    Not likely. Anybody who was paying attention knew well before the election that several major companies were planing on reducing hours if Obama got reelected. Why? Obama care which Romney claimed he would repeal if he got elected. It turns out that employers can dodge a good chunk of the provisions in Obama care if their employees work fewer than 23 hours a week or so. Business owners are not stupid, if they can save a massive chunk of money by hiring twice as man workers for half the number of hours of course they are going to do that.

    Who is John Galt?

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Merendel View Post
    Not likely. Anybody who was paying attention knew well before the election that several major companies were planing on reducing hours if Obama got reelected. Why? Obama care which Romney claimed he would repeal if he got elected. It turns out that employers can dodge a good chunk of the provisions in Obama care if their employees work fewer than 23 hours a week or so. Business owners are not stupid, if they can save a massive chunk of money by hiring twice as man workers for half the number of hours of course they are going to do that.
    Murray didn't cut hours to avoid Obamacare. He laid off people because of a supposed war on coal.

  3. #363
    He hasn't even had to do anything and the people cause the chaos themselves. Typical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    The funny thing is some CEOs are seriously considering leaving the country with their businesses. You think our economy is bad now, wait til all the big companies leave to china or elsewhere, everyone will still be buying their products and their money won't be going into the United States, that can't last long.
    Yeah, I'm sure every little John Galt in the bunch is just about to head right off to Zambia and show us all that he built his business all on his own, no societal backbone or government necessary. Good luck with that.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 09:14 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Murray didn't cut hours to avoid Obamacare. He laid off people because of a supposed war on coal.
    In which a "war on coal" is suggesting they should begin to cover the cost of their externalities and try to compete on the open market with energy sources that inflict far less death and suffering than coal.

  5. #365
    The problem is you are still confusing mandating people to purchase insurance with healthcare. Most Americans would not oppose a clear and concise plan that did not force it down their throats. The problem is that during the 2008 election President Obama promised transparency. He promised an end to omnibus spending bills. He promised that no bill would be voted on that Americans did not have the ability or opportunity to read first. That is not what we got with the Affordable Care Act. This was not something that should have been shoved through Congress at breakneck speed. The way and speed with which it was handled is what has contributed to much of the anger. The question remains though, if you have insurance it is supposedly not going to change, if you dont want it you will be progressively taxed each year till you pick up insurance, but if you are poor then you are exempt from the bill and the fines. So if this is about the poor and insurance and the poor are exempt, then what is the point? If this was truly about healthcare and not insurance, wouldn't it have been better to tackle tort reform? How about paying for doctors and nursing students to go to school in return for working at government run clinics instead of trying to regulate insurance and who has it.

    The original draft of the 1935 Economic Security Act, which established the Social Security Administration was 64 pages
    The original Medicare Act-28 pages
    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 - forbidding discrimination based on race and sex: 8 pages
    Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act 415 pages
    Affordable Care Act-961 pages + 1093 pages of new regulations

  6. #366
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Remember, its only class warfare if a democrat does it.

    When the GOP nominee calls 47% of the country shiftless its just telling the truth.
    It's quite funny how polarised american politics are and how involved people get. One might think it's a good way to divert people from calling their parties and politicans to account for their mistakes and lies.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by Merendel View Post
    Not likely. Anybody who was paying attention knew well before the election that several major companies were planing on reducing hours if Obama got reelected.
    Do you think we'd hear reporting of endless whining from green companies if Romney was elected? I'm guessing we would not have.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 09:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vathdar View Post
    It's quite funny how polarised american politics are and how involved people get. One might think it's a good way to divert people from calling their parties and politicans to account for their mistakes and lies.
    Yeah, people criticizing politicians for mistakes and lies have really just been diverted for holding politicans accountable for mistakes and lies

  8. #368
    Deleted
    But are democrat voters calling the democrat politicans out on their crap and vice versa? Or they both have an "us vs them" mentality.

  9. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by Vathdar View Post
    But are democrat voters calling the democrat politicans out on their crap and vice versa? Or they both have an "us vs them" mentality.
    Yes, they are. I've seen Republicans here and elsewhere condemn the anti-science positions of Republican politicians. I've seen Democrats here and elsewhere condemn the foreign policy and authoritarian "anti-terror" policies of Democrat politicians. Are people doing enough? I'd agree they're not. Are they too partisan? I'd agree that they are. It's not an all or nothing switch though, and there's plenty of individuals that aren't just cheerleaders.

  10. #370
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKing View Post
    The funny thing is some CEOs are seriously considering leaving the country with their businesses. You think our economy is bad now, wait til all the big companies leave to china or elsewhere, everyone will still be buying their products and their money won't be going into the United States, that can't last long.
    America was built on small business, and our economy was strong as long as politicians were breaking down big business wherever it showed up. Big businesses can "threaten" to move overseas all they want, the fact is that if they could, it would be better for America if they did. The sad part is they can't, because of the way a lot of foreign economies function. Do you really think Papa John's would continue to be able to sell $18 pizzas in India and China where 99.9% of the population makes ~20 cents an hour? Yeah, didn't think so. If big businesses moved overseas like they're threatening to do, it would be better for the American economy as small businesses would start popping up again in the ashes of empty wal-mart strip malls, where they were once snuffed out by the super stores.

    But unfortunately for the American people, big businesses taking themselves overseas is only a lot of hot air and nothing more.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    The problem is you are still confusing mandating people to purchase insurance with healthcare. Most Americans would not oppose a clear and concise plan that did not force it down their throats. The problem is that during the 2008 election President Obama promised transparency. He promised an end to omnibus spending bills. He promised that no bill would be voted on that Americans did not have the ability or opportunity to read first. That is not what we got with the Affordable Care Act. This was not something that should have been shoved through Congress at breakneck speed. The way and speed with which it was handled is what has contributed to much of the anger. The question remains though, if you have insurance it is supposedly not going to change, if you dont want it you will be progressively taxed each year till you pick up insurance, but if you are poor then you are exempt from the bill and the fines. So if this is about the poor and insurance and the poor are exempt, then what is the point? If this was truly about healthcare and not insurance, wouldn't it have been better to tackle tort reform? How about paying for doctors and nursing students to go to school in return for working at government run clinics instead of trying to regulate insurance and who has it.

    The original draft of the 1935 Economic Security Act, which established the Social Security Administration was 64 pages
    The original Medicare Act-28 pages
    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 - forbidding discrimination based on race and sex: 8 pages
    Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act 415 pages
    Affordable Care Act-961 pages + 1093 pages of new regulations
    Poor people get plan at significantly reduced rates or they are eligible for expanded medicaid coverage from the states for free. It also prevents insurance companies from dropping you because you have an expensive medical condition. These are the 2 major improvements to the previous system.

    Saying that the Democrats forced it upon the country since no Republicans voted for it is a bad argument. After the 2008 election many Republicans aid they would do anything to prevent a 2nd Obama term and not work with the Democrats at all. So they basically refused to pass a bill bipartisanly for a healthcare system that was created by Republicans in the 90s, implemented by a Republican governor in Mass, and is a massive boon to insurance companies (Republicans lov big business) just because they dont like Democrats and forced them to pass the bill without them.

    Also how is the president supposed to limit the size of bills written by congressmen and senators? If he even said this in the campaign it is your fault for believing it since it isnt possible for him to do that.

  12. #372
    Warchief ImpTaimer's Avatar
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    Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut! Pizza Hut!

    (I like Little Caesar's too, don't tell anyone.)

    Shouldn't the government or some organization be stepping in and saying "No you can't fire people because you're a hypocrite."?

    I wish. Just don't buy the pizza.
    There are no bathrooms, only Zuul.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Poor people get plan at significantly reduced rates or they are eligible for expanded medicaid coverage from the states for free. It also prevents insurance companies from dropping you because you have an expensive medical condition. These are the 2 major improvements to the previous system.

    Saying that the Democrats forced it upon the country since no Republicans voted for it is a bad argument. After the 2008 election many Republicans aid they would do anything to prevent a 2nd Obama term and not work with the Democrats at all. So they basically refused to pass a bill bipartisanly for a healthcare system that was created by Republicans in the 90s, implemented by a Republican governor in Mass, and is a massive boon to insurance companies (Republicans lov big business) just because they dont like Democrats and forced them to pass the bill without them.

    Also how is the president supposed to limit the size of bills written by congressmen and senators? If he even said this in the campaign it is your fault for believing it since it isnt possible for him to do that.
    For starters, I am from Illinois and do not believe anything politicians say, especially the politicians from here. The transparency that was promised by then Candidate Obama was championed by the rest of the Democrats as they were going to change the way Government business was done. Democrats at the time of the bills passing were close to a super majority in the congress and could have done as they pleased so there was no rush.

    No one has denied that the Affordable Care act was modeled after the Massachusetts plan, but if you look at it there prices went up initially before settling a bit and cheaper plans for small business owners have not showed up as originally promised.

    As far as the 90s goes, the individual mandate at the time was supported b 19 republican senators and was a voucher program for the poor as an alternative to Clinton's plan which would have required all employers to provide healthcare for their workers. Ironically, the mandate was opposed by liberal Democrats at that time.

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Theangryone View Post
    For starters, I am from Illinois and do not believe anything politicians say, especially the politicians from here. The transparency that was promised by then Candidate Obama was championed by the rest of the Democrats as they were going to change the way Government business was done. Democrats at the time of the bills passing were close to a super majority in the congress and could have done as they pleased so there was no rush.
    They had public "town hall" meetings all over the country for people to talk to congressmen about the new healthcare law. I dont know of any other legislation that has had that kind of public discussion before being passed. The problem was that a lot of these meetings were hijacked by conservatives that mis-informed seniors about losing Medicare and sometimes just yelling at politicians so nothing could get done (started the whole tea party movement made up of people angry about stuff that wasnt even happening). Also they had a supermajority, but only for 2 years and it could take a long time to get anything done without concentrated effort which is what you saw with healthcare.

    We dont really know the entire effect of the law yet because it is not fully implemented.

    I would have preferred true universal healthcare but Obamacare is better than nothing.

  15. #375
    The Lightbringer KingHorse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Yes, they are. I've seen Republicans here and elsewhere condemn the anti-science positions of Republican politicians. I've seen Democrats here and elsewhere condemn the foreign policy and authoritarian "anti-terror" policies of Democrat politicians. Are people doing enough? I'd agree they're not. Are they too partisan? I'd agree that they are. It's not an all or nothing switch though, and there's plenty of individuals that aren't just cheerleaders.
    Nothing wrong with cheerleaders.
    I don't argue to be right, I argue to be proven wrong. Because I'm aware that the collective intelligence of the community likely has more to offer to me by enlightening me, than I do to an individual by "winning" an argument with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
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  16. #376
    Immortal SirRobin's Avatar
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    I found a solution!

    Papa Johns saves the money they've been spending on text messages, and spends it on health insurance instead.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  17. #377
    Bloodsail Admiral vastx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orissa View Post
    Because he has a sixth yacht to buy.
    Yes....!!! Be angry and envious of those with more than you. Such an easy emotion to manipulate.

  18. #378
    I think he was trying to make the point that Papa John's is manipulating people so he can earn more money.

  19. #379
    Pizza Hut > Dominos >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Papa Johns

  20. #380
    Deleted
    the funny thing is, the CEOs blame obama care - but lets not forget it was the banking ceos that put us in this financial crisis, but I imagine a lot of you are to young to remember

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