[Megathread] DotA 2

[Hermanni]

Can't see why anyone would want to not a-click. My most clicked buttons in a game are a and s lol, s particularly as pudge "oh shit the hooks gonna miss" /click s. I am in love with them.

I don't know, it would seem to me that right-clicking would be very marginally more optimal, but not worth the effort of re-learning my habits. Try binding your stop to spacebar instead of S - I first did this in HoN and it instantly made everything better.

I think it's been a long time since I've had a game ruined by a Russian speaking player. Not so long time since I've had games ruined by some "gg team is rus" type.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Then at least learn the language.

Not directed at you, but at russians in general.

eh its a difficult matter, friend :0
you just cant create a kind of barrier against ones not speaking Engrish.

Exactly the attitude that makes all the English speaking Europeans hate the Russians joining them.

care to explain?

[Deleted]

eh its a difficult matter, friend :0
you just cant create a kind of barrier against ones not speaking Engrish

Why not? This game is a team based game and communication is a key. Why can't russian speaking people play with other russian speaking people and most of europe where everyone can speak english can play together. That's a win-win situation and everyone communicates.

[Deleted]

Why not? This game is a team based game and communication is a key. Why can't russian speaking people play with other russian speaking people and most of europe where everyone can speak english can play together. That's a win-win situation and everyone communicates.

Because if I have a Russian friend who speaks legible English, I should be able to play with him. Any sort of "language check" barrier would be clunky and region barriers would be restrictive.

[Finear]

WTT diretide key for unusual essence

[Sackman]

I don't know, it would seem to me that right-clicking would be very marginally more optimal, but not worth the effort of re-learning my habits. Try binding your stop to spacebar instead of S - I first did this in HoN and it instantly made everything better.

I think it's been a long time since I've had a game ruined by a Russian speaking player. Not so long time since I've had games ruined by some "gg team is rus" type.

I have control-group tab as my space, `123, items, 456 control groups, space control group tab, t for all things under my control save for me, and then practically default for everything else.

I can right click too but, a involves a+left click. Both things can be done simultaneously so, it's no better nor worse - however to deny you need to a+left click, so you might as well be more used to it.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 03:32 PM ----------

eh its a difficult matter, friend :0
you just cant create a kind of barrier against ones not speaking Engrish.


care to explain?

Because you believe you should play where you want at the detriment to others despite having the facilities to play in harmony with a language you coherently grasp.

---------- Post added 2012-11-10 at 03:39 PM ----------

Because if I have a Russian friend who speaks legible English, I should be able to play with him. Any sort of "language check" barrier would be clunky and region barriers would be restrictive.

Region barriers for solo queue. Problem sorted.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Because you believe you should play where you want at the detriment to others despite having the facilities to play in harmony with a language you coherently grasp.

well, no.
I know Engrish pretty well good.
I want to play with other Engrish-speaking people out there.
Why would you forbid me doing so?

Region barriers for solo queue. Problem sorted.

ehh...

[sinilaid]

Got another invite if anyone wants...

[Longview]

field of view has nothing to do with GUI itself.

But you cannot change it for exactly the same reason you can't change the UI, I don't see your point.

I've had exactly one game this entire week where I didn't feel like I wasn't clearly the most skilled player on my team, and that was my most recent game, where everyone on my team played well. Well, not counting when I queue with friends, anyway.

I'll just go ahead and ask - am I alone in not feeling like I'm the best player in each of my games? There are games my team loses because I lose mid, for example. That clearly never happens to either of you two, but what about you other people?

WTT diretide key for unusual essence

Your key or your essence?

[Sackman]

But you cannot change it for exactly the same reason you can't change the UI, I don't see your point.



I'll just go ahead and ask - am I alone in not feeling like I'm the best player in each of my games? There are games my team loses because I lose mid, for example. That clearly never happens to either of you two, but what about you other people?



Your key or your essence?

Nope I lose games sometime, normally met with unanimous abuse lol Generally I lose games when I am learning a new hero though - or when I should just stay away from a certain hero because it's not my playstyle.

However, I often do feel like I am the only one willing to play as a team. People just getting carries when we need only 1 etc etc etc

[Demidov]

I don't mind losing if people are new or just play bad. Only when they aren't trying.

i.e. 80% of russians swearing in russian and wishing everyone cancer on the minimap

[Lysah]

I thought Lysah and the rest of y'all were EU players, anyway. You're having these kinds of troubles on US servers, even at high MMR? That's a fuckin downer, man... I was under the impression I'd escape all the asshats if I worked hard and pushed my MMR :-/

Nah, I only play USE/USW.

Winning a game when it's 1v5 isn't very fun, either, but it's more fun than losing a 1v5 you should have won.

@Longview
I never go mid, so I don't even have to consider that possibility. Not because I don't think I can handle mid, but because I find mid the most boring lane. I have lost my lane and lost games because of it in the past, but it is not common. Most notably when I randomed Necro before his changes and played too aggressively and went 0-6 in the first ten minutes...

Typically, if I'm doing poorly in a side lane, I will retreat to the jungle or go roaming instead of continually dying in my lane. That's the biggest difference, the players that lose me games are the people who just keep over extending and getting ganked and end up having 20 deaths from their lane alone.

@Sackman
Don't worry I'm pretty bad at SC2 as well. I can move at 200 APM in a fight, but I totally forget I have a base in the meantime. I played like 600 games of SC2 in the first season and never seemed to get better at macro, time to give up and play DotA instead :x

[Finear]

Your key or your essence?

my key
10chars

[Kuntantee]

But you cannot change it for exactly the same reason you can't change the UI, I don't see your point.

and what is that reason? First you throw the bullshit of GUI effecting FoV then you claim both can not be changed for same reason. They are utterly different things... I don't see they have a common reason about both being same in each client. Different FoVs may effect fair competition, however, different GUI(as long as they are restricted to output same information by API) won't effect anything.

You clearly have no idea about what you are talking about.

[Longview]

and what is that reason? First you throw the bullshit of GUI effecting FoV then you claim both can not be changed for same reason. They are utterly different things... I don't see they have a common reason about both being same in each client. Different FoVs may effect fair competition, however, different GUI(as long as they are restricted to output same information by API) won't effect anything.

You clearly have no idea about what you are talking about.

You cannot change the field of view, play at wider resolutions, make the UI smaller, move the minimap/make the minimap larger/zoom out further for the same reason. Everyone needs to have the same playing field. You may not think it's a big deal, but you used to be able to play like this. Now I don't know, maybe I don't have any idea what I am talking about. Please explain how more customization of the UI is a good thing.

[Lysah]

Shadow blade on Leoric <3

This is relevant to my interests.

[Kuntantee]

You cannot change the field of view, play at wider resolutions, make the UI smaller, move the minimap/make the minimap larger/zoom out further for the same reason. Everyone needs to have the same playing field. You may not think it's a big deal, but you used to be able to play like this. Now I don't know, maybe I don't have any idea what I am talking about. Please explain how more customization of the UI is a good thing.

I'm not gonna keep this non-brainer discussion. I suggest you to learn more.

[Hermanni]

I've had exactly one game this entire week where I didn't feel like I wasn't clearly the most skilled player on my team, and that was my most recent game, where everyone on my team played well.

Thing is, majority of players think like that when playing with strangers. It's pretty easy to see why, as you don't always notice your mistakes, and when you do it's easy to rationalize them because you yourself know exactly what went through your head and what you were doing. But when other people do mistakes, you simply perceive them as bad. And psychologically you'll always seek to blame or put responsibility on someone else, so if there's a scapegoat available you'll often dismiss it as their fault and continue. Even if you're partially responsible, it's easier to just point out someone else's mistakes instead of looking at and admitting what you did wrong or could improve. It's not uncommon for 4 players of a team to mock their 5th in allchat or for someone to go captain hindsight on their teammates without reflecting on their own play.

I often play in a non-serious manner, which often involves me making decisions that range from unorthodox to intentionally stupid. I might farm a lane, knowing perfectly well that minimap is empty and 3 enemies are coming but still continue to do so because what the hell, maybe I can manfight them alone. Then I die and laugh about how I almost got one. That's just an example of how I know what I'm thinking when I do what is clearly a misplay, but my teammate might just think that "oh look at that goddamn retard he must be blind or something." Or if I had been someone else who didn't know the gank was coming, maybe they would proceed to scream at their teammates how nobody TP'd in, they could have gotten easy triple-kill but they're too stupid to do so!

My point being, there's a lot you don't know about the current state of your teammates and often that with the previously mentioned psychological factors and possibility of Dunning-Kruger effect can easily give you the impression you're the only decent player around. And if you managed to get a nice score for yourself it's only too easy to mentally seal the deal that you're the best player in the universe, at least compared to your teammates.


A little story as a final example, make of it what you will. X plays QoP in mid, Dire side, his team lanes 2-1-1 and the enemy does the same. Enemy mid is Pudge which is fairly easy for X to deal with. Few minutes in X grabs a haste rune and ganks the enemy offlaning Windrunner. X is happy with himself, but doesn't pay any thought to the conditions of his gank. Before, Windrunner was effectively kept off XP range and was still at level 1-2, and their carry had perfect lane control. When X ganked, they took the hero kill and screamed a creepwave for some extra farm for good measure, and hasted back to mid without staying to damage or push the tower. In the aftermath, Windrunner finds herself getting easy XP and gold from the pushed lane, and it takes minutes for X's team to get the lane back under control.

Later X finds another rune in bottom and hurries to gank the enemy bot lane with apparent ease. He gets two hero kills but the enemy jungler shows up to kill his teammate, but he rushes back to mid. This goes on an on, X's QoP snowballs a good deal with the fast early gold. X hops from lane to lane, decimating heroes and creepwaves alike. This continues until enemy team manages to successfully defend a bad push, and X gets killed with several teammates. X is pissed at his team, perhaps for whatever they did wrong in the fight or to their carry who had stayed to try to farm (which they knew before trying to push) and proceeds to go on a farming overdrive, clearing two lanes and jungle while trying to get his next item. Eventually the space the enemy team got allows for them to grab some more farm, and they realize X represents a significant portion of his teams net worth and decide to try and focus him. This strategy brings them victory. In the end, X realizes he is 14-3 while rest of his team did a lot worse, he has more farm than their carry and even the enemy heroes he ganked have more farm than his supports. X concludes his team is trash, enemies don't deserve to win against him and matchmaking is shit (or he is too good for it.)


And I can only speak for myself but more than half of the time I add USE as region (with EU) I end up regretting it.

[PizzaSHARK]

Thing is, majority of players think like that when playing with strangers. It's pretty easy to see why, as you don't always notice your mistakes, and when you do it's easy to rationalize them because you yourself know exactly what went through your head and what you were doing. But when other people do mistakes, you simply perceive them as bad. And psychologically you'll always seek to blame or put responsibility on someone else, so if there's a scapegoat available you'll often dismiss it as their fault and continue. Even if you're partially responsible, it's easier to just point out someone else's mistakes instead of looking at and admitting what you did wrong or could improve. It's not uncommon for 4 players of a team to mock their 5th in allchat or for someone to go captain hindsight on their teammates without reflecting on their own play.

I often play in a non-serious manner, which often involves me making decisions that range from unorthodox to intentionally stupid. I might farm a lane, knowing perfectly well that minimap is empty and 3 enemies are coming but still continue to do so because what the hell, maybe I can manfight them alone. Then I die and laugh about how I almost got one. That's just an example of how I know what I'm thinking when I do what is clearly a misplay, but my teammate might just think that "oh look at that goddamn retard he must be blind or something." Or if I had been someone else who didn't know the gank was coming, maybe they would proceed to scream at their teammates how nobody TP'd in, they could have gotten easy triple-kill but they're too stupid to do so!

My point being, there's a lot you don't know about the current state of your teammates and often that with the previously mentioned psychological factors and possibility of Dunning-Kruger effect can easily give you the impression you're the only decent player around. And if you managed to get a nice score for yourself it's only too easy to mentally seal the deal that you're the best player in the universe, at least compared to your teammates.

That's understandable, but in your example, most of the time someone who knows better does something stupid, they'll admit it after they fuck up. I do it all the time - I'll die or miss a tower deny or whatever due to some stupid reason because I wasn't thinking, and I always go "oh wow that was stupid of me, sorry." I own up to the mistakes I make, whether they're intentional (I'll manfight them!) or unintentional.

But the last game I played, we had a Russian Leoric who went aura first. We calmly explained to him, slowly and with easy words (which, since he responded in english, we're assuming he understood) why you don't want aura early and instead want stun+stats. I check him later, and he's got 1 point in stun, 2 points in aura, and 2 points in crit at level 5. He later turns out to be a complete shitbag, running into shit like 1v5's and raging at the entire team (in russian, ofc) about how bad we are and blah blah blah - the point is, I can guarantee you everyone our team, even the fucking Riki that went MoM+Basher instead of Diffusal Blade, and couldn't land a GG Cloud to save his goddamn life, was better than him.

We lost to a team of idiots (38 minute manta on Morphling despite a full game of free farm, etc) because our teammates were such complete trash. It's frustrating as hell, dude, and it's really obvious when it really isn't your fault.

A little story as a final example, make of it what you will. X plays QoP in mid, Dire side, his team lanes 2-1-1 and the enemy does the same. Enemy mid is Pudge which is fairly easy for X to deal with. Few minutes in X grabs a haste rune and ganks the enemy offlaning Windrunner. X is happy with himself, but doesn't pay any thought to the conditions of his gank. Before, Windrunner was effectively kept off XP range and was still at level 1-2, and their carry had perfect lane control. When X ganked, they took the hero kill and screamed a creepwave for some extra farm for good measure, and hasted back to mid without staying to damage or push the tower. In the aftermath, Windrunner finds herself getting easy XP and gold from the pushed lane, and it takes minutes for X's team to get the lane back under control.

Later X finds another rune in bottom and hurries to gank the enemy bot lane with apparent ease. He gets two hero kills but the enemy jungler shows up to kill his teammate, but he rushes back to mid. This goes on an on, X's QoP snowballs a good deal with the fast early gold. X hops from lane to lane, decimating heroes and creepwaves alike. This continues until enemy team manages to successfully defend a bad push, and X gets killed with several teammates. X is pissed at his team, perhaps for whatever they did wrong in the fight or to their carry who had stayed to try to farm (which they knew before trying to push) and proceeds to go on a farming overdrive, clearing two lanes and jungle while trying to get his next item. Eventually the space the enemy team got allows for them to grab some more farm, and they realize X represents a significant portion of his teams net worth and decide to try and focus him. This strategy brings them victory. In the end, X realizes he is 14-3 while rest of his team did a lot worse, he has more farm than their carry and even the enemy heroes he ganked have more farm than his supports. X concludes his team is trash, enemies don't deserve to win against him and matchmaking is shit (or he is too good for it.)

That's one of those things that requires some after-action analysis to really notice. I've seen it several times, and I used to do it a lot back before I really learned how I'm really fucking my team over by blasting down creep wave after creep wave as Keeper or whatever. It's something that watching pro games casted by people that know what they're talking about (i.e. not Tobi) helped me really learn. But yeah, I see your point.

I used to play SC2 1v1 a lot and liked to push my MMR as much as I could. I'm used to analyzing my own play and looking for mistakes. It's a little harder in a team game like Dota 2, but the basics still apply.

And I can only speak for myself but more than half of the time I add USE as region (with EU) I end up regretting it.

Probably because not only do you still have to endure the fucking Russians, you also get to add Brazilians to the mix. I dunno about you, but I queue for USW and USE and it's not very often that I get into a game before my search bar is nearly maxed out. I don't know what that signifies, but it doesn't seem to vary much by time of day. Queues are typically under a minute with friends, though we also tend to play against weaker opponents when that happens. I don't know how to interpret that.

[Lysah]

It usually really is obvious when it isn't your fault. Furion pickers, no rune control mids, jungle CMs, last pick solo long lane SAs, these are a few of my favorite things.

Anyway, I don't really understand the point of your anecdote. A QoP that ganks side lanes and gets kills doing so did her job for the team. Rune control and ganking is literally all mid exists for in most games. If her team was unable to keep up in farm given the fact that QoP was getting the runes and not enemy pudge AND she was also killing their lane mates for them it really is their fault and not hers. Stealing farm and unnecessarily pushing lanes is a problem, but screaming a creep wave here and there while reaping enemy heroes all game is not a problem. The pressure mid exerts from controlling runes and ganking sides alone frees up the jungle for anyone to casually relax in, not to mention creating free tower pushes for the team as they have to start abandoning side lanes to defend against rune ganks.

Towers reset creep waves by default, pushing lanes is only bad if you either don't actually get the gold from it (furion ult) or you can't afford to trade the enemy team equal gold (they have a better late game in which case you should be pushing and setting up team fights regardless).