So? Doesn't make the middle east any less vital. The US will still consume more than it produces, and global oil prices will still be based on the shifting of supply and demand curves around the globe. Since the Middle East is a sizable chunk of that supply curve, it will still have a huge effect on global oil markets.
'Twas a cutlass swipe or an ounce of lead
Or a yawing hole in a battered head
And the scuppers clogged with rotting red
And there they lay I damn me eyes
All lookouts clapped on Paradise
All souls bound just contrarywise, yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
What are you talking about? We just had a Presidential candidate calling out Russia as our number one geopolitical foe. It's not like they're flying under the radar in continuing to support their cold war era friends. In my opinion, shooting at someone in an open civil war is a little different than shooting at someone behind a fence gathering crops. Does that mean that I don't wish that the Assad government reacted differently to the insurrection when it was just a few people looking for freedom of speech? No, but it's certainly something different now.
"Nakba Day (Arabic: يوم *ل*كبة Yawm an-Nakba, meaning "Day of the Catastrophe") is an annual day of commemoration (15 May) of the Palestinian displacement... During the 1948
Palestine War, an estimated 700,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled, and hundreds of Palestinian villages were depopulated and destroyed. The vast majority of Palestinian refugees, both those outside the 1949 armistice lines at the conclusion of the war, and those internally displaced, were barred by the newly declared state of Israel". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba_Day
Okay so I went through about 20 Palestine threads, and it looked to be about 50/50. But you do have a point, I'll give you that.
Romney did say that Russia was our greatest political foe. And then he was mocked for it. Don't get me wrong, our government struggles with Russia every day. I know that all too well. But everyone else, the people who don't see the conflict, they see something like Russia funding Assad and they go "Oh well that's just Russia. We expect that from them..."
---------- Post added 2012-11-12 at 10:54 PM ----------
I searched for threads that contained the word 'Palestine'. Also, you have no idea what lengths people will go to in turning ANYTHING into a debate about Palestine. I found a thread titled "Vietnam prepares for possible war with China" where Palestine was mentioned twelve times! How do you even do that?!
You're right, the drubbing he got ("LOL he thinks the Cold War is still on") was unfair, even if one accepts the mainstream conclusion that radical Islam is our number one foe. But, I don't recall him ever rationally defending his statement either.
I was just pointing out that people aren't exactly unaware of which side Russia's on. You do get it though. What Israel does, it does with the United State's approval (even if we occasionally frown at them, we've never to the best of my knowledge actually tried to stop the march of settlements), so, being mostly Americans, it adds relevance and moral complicity. We arm them, so something like a divestment campaign actually has something to do.
Anyone from Russia? Is there a similar backlash among liberals there against Russia's support for their side's oppressive friends?
Well yes, I understand your point there. Americans have every right to be upset over the Palestine thing because it's our government doing it. I guess it's really just all the Europeans here to which I'm saying "You need to check your priorities, because worse things are being done in this world and nobody is doing anything to stop it"
Their is not a single country that would accept a forming of a new country within their own borders. The US had it's civil war because the country split in 2, during WW1 and 2 every country fought back when they got invaded (talking about both sides here) and even when a country was taking over by the Germans their was still resistance groups fighting.
Again their is not a single country that would accept a forming of a new country within their own borders, it does not mater if you think that Palestinian never existed because at the very least the land itself used to be part of the Arab nations.
One of the things we as a race learned after WW2 is that it is stupid at best to take over a country after you defeated them. The formation of the UN is precisly because the leaders of that time felt that the WW2 resulted because of ww1, and if you look at germany and japan after ww2 you will see (at least the west side) that both where independent governments and that they where left mostly alone.
This isn't really a argument that the Palestinians or any group of people could accept.
Just because your opponent is stronger does not mean that you have to give up, attaining freedom does not stop just because your opponent has bigger tanks (in this case Palestinians don't have that), better rockets (Palestinians rocket only hit stuff by chance at best) or even better sticks.
I'm personally wondering what the goal is of the Israel government and it's people because currently I don't see any end to this struggle since the government of Israel does not want peace. The reason why Obama and Netanyahu currently have a bad personal relationship is precisely because the Israel government does not want peace. Remember a few years ago Biden was send to Israel and the moment he arrived the government announced building of more houses in Palestinian lands, this really humiliated the American government because you can't have peace talks while at the same time aggressor is doing his thing.
This isn't about religion, even if the land itself had nothing to do with religion people will still fight as long as they believe they have been robbed.
What argument do you think I'm trying to make there?
It's pretty obvious what Israel's goal is, I'm just trying to figure out what logic leads Hamas to think that lobbing rockets out of Gaza will do anything about it.
i honestly thought there was a good shot at having all of this settled years ago, so that israel and palestine could be building on peace. but arafat was trolling us all, and i hope hes burning in hell right now. nothing is going to be resolved with hawks sitting in israeli govt, and is there a legitimate emissary for palestine right now? (i really dont know at the moment)
Just be glad the Israelis haven't taken Russian approach and wiped the whole area right the hell out! Its a pity they are still killing each other but its been happening for most of human history and its very unlikely to change because a few people bitch moan about how each side is being inhumane.
Yes, in fact they are fantastic tanks, with superb targeting ability. The US built them. The are the M1A1 tanks, and they are, for that region, top of the line. Those tanks participate in "bullseye" contests regularly, hitting targets more than a mile away, no larger than a motorcycle.
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 02:58 AM ----------
Wrong again. Topics are started by a variety of people, for a variety of reasons. Although it's pretty obvious which side you stand on.
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 02:59 AM ----------
Wow, love how you just ignore the facts of what's being reported and go right into "whatever I want to say, despite reality" mode. I've noticed most anti-Israel people do this - fantastic stuff. Almost like Fox "News".
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:02 AM ----------
But it's not, whatsoever. If Palestine could stop attacking Israel civilians for more than a week or two, perhaps their government could be listed as something other than a terrorist organization, or even better, perhaps those same "government leaders" (aka terrorists) could think about something other than themselves, and negotiate for a two-state solution.
---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:15 AM ----------
Do you have any facts on this? If we are the top producer of oil, won't that pretty much make us self sufficient?
(hey, did you hear about your state's cessation plans? )
Last edited by cubby; 2012-11-13 at 03:17 AM.
Your point does not make sense. We're not talking about stealing cookies. "But John stole one too!!".
Genocides, oppression and ethnic cleansing are a whole different thing.
And Israel isn't really covering it or hiding it up much. So I don't see what is it that you are saying there.
Should the world go "ah sure you can bomb schools, drop cluster bombs, fill the place with uranium and mines, and little by little exterminate the Palestinians all together, we'll close an eye, go on you little rascal!!"
And thing is... We DO close an eye as well. 300 odd UN resolutions sent and nothing has been done.
You don't really get the point do ya.
Your example of Syria and Russia there is completely wrong.
First, Israel, during the years, has shown to be as heavy handed, if not more, compared to what's happening in Syria at the moment.
Second, people ARE questioning israel's actions, AND the us for fully supporting em, I don't understand what you are saying there when you say "angry with Syria not with Russia".
And finally, things are COMPLETELY different. Russia isn't advocating what Assad is doing. Russia is preventing a UN action (they could Be right seeing how things developed in Libya).
You CANNOT compare the relationship between USA and Israel with Russia and Syria.
Last edited by mmocea043e1e13; 2012-11-13 at 07:31 AM.