State of the Game

[Obamatheone]

So which game provides enough content to keep you busy for a full week with (apparently) tons of hours to spend while playing only one char. I didn't encounter any such MMO in the last... well since I'm playing MMO's. They should add faction grinding where as each mission gives around 100-150 points and you need like 50k, not sure if this would count as "content" however. As I played long time EQ2... better raiding guilds would spend not more than one day to clear more raidcontent than what we have currently available in swtor, it was mostly the midway guilds which spend weeks to reach the same result.

I can only say that... because I have several alts (as they have different stories and that's what this MMO is mostly about) I already have to choose what I'd prefer to do.

I think that for a normal person with 3-4 hours to spend each day, flashpoint/ dailies/ space and pvp do hold enough to fill out the time. With 1.5 coming we'll have more raidcontent (the same instance but different scripts) and more dailies.

Bottom line is... the longer the game is out, the more content will be available.

WoW?
As a progression raider you go constantly this xpac.
As a hardcore raider you raid a lot, and do a lot of dailies.
As a casual raider you raid some, and do even more dailies, farm ville, pet battles, etc...

Lots of stuff to do! Too much really!

[Leadsop]

I think the point is that if you want to find things to do and be happy with the game, you will, and rather easily.

If you want to quit the game and be unhappy, you will do that as well, and find good reason to do so.

If you want to sit on forums and complain about things, you will do that also.

[Deleted]

I think the point is that if you want to find things to do and be happy with the game, you will, and rather easily.

If you want to quit the game and be unhappy, you will do that as well, and find good reason to do so.

If you want to sit on forums and complain about things, you will do that also.

I agree

[Keren]

WoW?
As a progression raider you go constantly this xpac.
As a hardcore raider you raid a lot, and do a lot of dailies.
As a casual raider you raid some, and do even more dailies, farm ville, pet battles, etc...

Lots of stuff to do! Too much really!

There are daily on each planet! You can earn badges and buy stuff. Space-Missions, PVP Dailys, PVE dailys and Weeklys, Open World Encounter, 4 Tier full of raids for fun/title/mount/gear/mats in different difficoulty stages, 8 unique class storries, high end daily quest with individuell gear...

Same like any other AAA MMO on the market. No reason to bithc out because you like elfs more than cyborgs, or bows more as guns 0_o

[Deleted]

There are daily on each planet! You can earn badges and buy stuff. Space-Missions, PVP Dailys, PVE dailys and Weeklys, Open World Encounter, 4 Tier full of raids for fun/title/mount/gear/mats in different difficoulty stages, 8 unique class storries, high end daily quest with individuell gear...

Same like any other AAA MMO on the market. No reason to bithc out because you like elfs more than cyborgs, or bows more as guns 0_o

Ahhh...there you said it!

[Kelimbror]

So which game provides enough content to keep you busy for a full week with (apparently) tons of hours to spend while playing only one char. I didn't encounter any such MMO in the last... well since I'm playing MMO's.

Bottom line is... the longer the game is out, the more content will be available.

I hate to say this, because I have complained plenty about the actual design of it, but the current 'top performer' has content that lasts like that. And it honestly has nothing to do with the time it's been out. Factoring in the extra things from it being out for so long is a staggering amount of content.

So to be frank, just looking at Rift and WoW you can see examples of content that actually lasts.

While in SWTOR it's nice to be able to complete your dailies and weeklies on one character in between 4-10 hours of playtime, depending on what you do and what your availability is, it isn't really content. The problem is that this game has only provided these handful of avenues and will only continue to do so. Other games have multiple other outlets that add to the content.

This game just doesn't right now. I mean the leveling is the most fun you could possibly have, but once that's over...the game just kinda stalls. Beyond raids (that are easily completed in a couple of hours), there's no real progression. There's nothing to strive and achieve. This has been mentioned before. Once you have your datacrons, there's literally nothing to do but dailies, pvp, or pve until you go insane.

They need more systems in place that provide a means to progress your character or account. Actually creating a real achievement system would be a good start, as well as adding some form of rewards on rail shooter to promote running more than one mission a day. Not to mention the plethora of minigames, dynamic area design, etc that would fit so nicely in the universe.

Edit: And to all the people who keep railing against everyone who isn't satisfied with the state of the game, you need a reality check. Most of the people in here offering suggestions and saying exactly why this game is not performing are people who want this to succeed. You are essentially asking for the lowest form of this game as possible. We should be telling you to stfu, because you are the people ruining this game. Talking heads and Yes Men for EA and Bioware...look where it has gotten you. They listened to people saying to not have certain features, then had to 180 when the realized what a mistake that was.

Both parties have continued that terrible train of mistakes. They need to start listening to people like us, because there are far more than the remaining 500K+ that pay subscriptions. We actually want this game to be better, not curse its being and hope it dies. No one is railing about how this game should die because it sucks. We want this game to grow into what it should and could be. So get off your high horse and realize your attitudes are damning the game to failure.

You might feel like special snowflakes, but you won't have your game for more than a few years if they keep listening to those people.

[Deleted]

I thought I was a Great game, i loved the way it played and looked, I enjoyed the questing.

But I just felt the game was way to disconnected, It was to slow & cumbersome in getting about, It just felt like game worlds were just fixed railed Hubs connected by long walks and many loading screens, which was annoying so I stopped playing..

[Deleted]

I hate to say this, because I have complained plenty about the actual design of it, but the current 'top performer' has content that lasts like that. And it honestly has nothing to do with the time it's been out. Factoring in the extra things from it being out for so long is a staggering amount of content.

So to be frank, just looking at Rift and WoW you can see examples of content that actually lasts.

Depends how you look at it ofcourse, content that lasts on WoW? Please, not since Karazhan. Every new patch the previous tier becomes useless and even then you farmed said content a long time. Even now they are artificially gating the content.

Swotor, I like the Ops, they are fun and original and altho the loot from EV and KP is useless for me now I still enjoy doing them from time to time because its optional. Pugs are formed at regular intervals and you can't do this in WoW because the items that your going for (because thats what WoW comes down to, the items) is usually reserved.

WoW isn't a bad game don't get me wrong, its the community thats shit compared to swotor, atleast on my server then.

While in SWTOR it's nice to be able to complete your dailies and weeklies on one character in between 4-10 hours of playtime, depending on what you do and what your availability is, it isn't really content. The problem is that this game has only provided these handful of avenues and will only continue to do so. Other games have multiple other outlets that add to the content.

Well the dailies are just nice to do for the campaign relliks and mounts but for the rest *shrug* nice way to get you some extra coin I suppose. And outlets... I'm not sure but what extra outlets are there in WoW then? They are only adding outlets recently, the focus of swotor is more on the story wich I approve, I don't want to go out to Hoth to capture a tauntaun pet to use in battles nor do I want an underground fight club.

This game just doesn't right now. I mean the leveling is the most fun you could possibly have, but once that's over...the game just kinda stalls. Beyond raids (that are easily completed in a couple of hours), there's no real progression. There's nothing to strive and achieve. This has been mentioned before. Once you have your datacrons, there's literally nothing to do but dailies, pvp, or pve until you go insane.

Yes, the leveling is fun, and making another alt can be fun aswell and I agree with you then that doing the same quests over and over again gets boring. Ops are fun and the fact that I can complete them in a few hours is satisfying considering I do wish to do other things aswell then just the Ops, infact you can complete most of the wow raids in a shorter time frame. The progression is based on gear ofcourse but if your max geared, then your at the top... not many people at the top I can tell you that. And I'm not sure what you mean with achievement but adding an achievement system... ? Why o_o - for killing a boss in a fun and unique way? You can do that yourself already without focusing on the achievement. You could always try to emerge yourself in the story and try to role play :P.

They need more systems in place that provide a means to progress your character or account. Actually creating a real achievement system would be a good start, as well as adding some form of rewards on rail shooter to promote running more than one mission a day. Not to mention the plethora of minigames, dynamic area design, etc that would fit so nicely in the universe.

I agree, they should atleast add Pazaak but dynamic areas... hmm. Could work ofcourse gaining/losing quest areas based on PvP. Then again from what I understand the servers aren't so... ratio friendly.

I believe they will expand the legacy system in the future, I like the fact that everything I do contributes to my legacy.

Edit: And to all the people who keep railing against everyone who isn't satisfied with the state of the game, you need a reality check. Most of the people in here offering suggestions and saying exactly why this game is not performing are people who want this to succeed. You are essentially asking for the lowest form of this game as possible. We should be telling you to stfu, because you are the people ruining this game. Talking heads and Yes Men for EA and Bioware...look where it has gotten you. They listened to people saying to not have certain features, then had to 180 when the realized what a mistake that was.

Both parties have continued that terrible train of mistakes. They need to start listening to people like us, because there are far more than the remaining 500K+ that pay subscriptions. We actually want this game to be better, not curse its being and hope it dies. No one is railing about how this game should die because it sucks. We want this game to grow into what it should and could be. So get off your high horse and realize your attitudes are damning the game to failure.

You might feel like special snowflakes, but you won't have your game for more than a few years if they keep listening to those people.

I think you should look in the mirror, you can be constructive don't get me wrong but you can also bash certain points just for the sake of it, you have your opinion we have ours about the game, respect goes both ways. The game itself is good, the questing is fun, the Operations are unique and the PvP is enjoyable and puts the points on teamwork rather then rushing. And this is ofcourse my opinion. The thing is tho, you compare swotor with other games, try to look at swotor as swotor and go from there, there is no need to copy things from WoW or Rift because there is a reason why the current 500k subscribers are playing swotor instead of those two.

[Kelimbror]

The thing is tho, you compare swotor with other games, try to look at swotor as swotor and go from there, there is no need to copy things from WoW or Rift because there is a reason why the current 500k subscribers are playing swotor instead of those two.

I don't even need to respond to the rest of the post, because you basically did exactly what I said. You took ideas for features and mostly threw them out the window. So to this point I will specifically say:

There is a reason why the current 500k subscribers isn't 2.5 Million subscribers. It's because SWTOR isn't living up to enough expectations. You can't put your hands over your ears and go la la la la I can't hear you other games, you don't exist. It is in the same market. It's not even a comparison. I didn't bring up the specific features of the other games, you did. I mentioned things that could be done specifically for this game and you dismissed them.

It's that exact attitude that has made this game underperform. It has nothing to do with my opinion, or your opinion of what's fun. It's what is good for the game. Adding more things doesn't take away from any of the things that you have stated as enjoyable. That's the problem. Everyone is holding on to this game in a death grasp, not wanting anything to change or influence it. For brevity, here is a list of things they could do that would be acceptable within the universe and add a variety of diverse content to the game:

1) Player housing/ship features - Upgradable and customizable visuals for exterior and interior. Hidden bases for smugglers, a room at the acadmey for jedi, etc.

2) Multiple mini games from pazaak, swoop/pod racing, and anything else they want to create new.

3) Achievement system that fits into the story. Possible class specific achievements that allow access to new abilities/moddable gear. Jedi can find people to help (random quests all over the place) Bounty Hunters can take bounties, smugglers can pickup and deliver goods while being pursued by people. Hell, put in some PvP with it where a Sith Warrior gets achievements for stopping smugglers from transporting goods....the possibilities are endless.

4) Dynamic doesn't have to mean PvP. Have the AI actually do something. Maybe have some rebels assaulting a sith base or v/v every now and then. This is a time period where a treaty is about to explode into war...we all run around like the other faction doesn't exist basically. Not only is it not realistic, but it's not fun either.

5) They've already proven they can add unique ways to get pets/mounts...do it more. Make it a feature.

6) Lightsaber/Blaster puzzles. If you use the force to build your saber, make it a 3D interactive puzzle where you have increasingly more amount of parts to combine out of order to create unique lightsaber looks and colors. Possibly have some of the items you need crafted by professions so that the economy can benefit from it. Same for rifles and pistols, where you put it together like a soldier would. Tie this into the achievement system, have it be cosmetic (moddable) only.

7)Add a new profession in the game that is secondary and all characters can have it. Make it be more direct with your character instead of your companions. Some star wars equivalent of a yeoman where you can learn to make drinks in a cantina, moisture farm, entertain.

8) KotOR already had an arena esque 1v1 PvE fight...another game just stole this concept. Reclaim this. Fight outlaws, hutt beasts, etc in gladiator matches. This has already been in SW movies and other games.

I don't really need to go on. I'm not a game designer or a SW fanatic and I can come up with these ideas that only ADD to the current game. Opinions are irrelevant, this game is a fraction of it's potential.

[RoninaThorstone]

I don't really need to go on. I'm not a game designer or a SW fanatic and I can come up with these ideas that only ADD to the current game. Opinions are irrelevant, this game is a fraction of it's potential.

Normally, this is where I would say something like, "All the more reason to give it more time".
But are we seeing swtor move toward these things? Not really. There has been no noise from the dev team about truly new features. We haven't even heard them talk about trying to catch up with swg.

Its extremely bothersome.

Its also baffling because just as this game is a fraction of its potential as a game, its a fraction of its potential as a product.
EA should be pushing this games development HARD. Not scraping it.

[Kelimbror]

Normally, this is where I would say something like, "All the more reason to give it more time".
But are we seeing swtor move toward these things? Not really. There has been no noise from the dev team about truly new features. We haven't even heard them talk about trying to catch up with swg.

Its extremely bothersome.

Its also baffling because just as this game is a fraction of its potential as a game, its a fraction of its potential as a product.
EA should be pushing this games development HARD. Not scraping it.

And that is exactly the point. That's kinda the mentality that's been prevalent since the game launched. It really makes me wonder if the direction of the game and reluctance to achieve even the current status quo was really precipitated by listening to 'fans' too much. Now they seem in over their heads and have no desire to be innovative or even have the capability of implementing new things. If they introduce any systems like this in the next year I would be astounded.

The exact same issue has happened in WoW. So many people want to lay claim to this being 'their' game. They didn't want casual players to taste what they have had all these years. They didn't want all these 'fluff' features added. Blizzard heard those responses, then put out what they were planning anyways. Yet the whiners are mostly still playing along with all the other people who can experience the game for the first time. MMOs are not a market where less is more. More is more. It's not a perfect execution, but the underlying mentality is what is successful.

I hope we are both proven incredibly wrong. I hope SSS launches with some crazy minigames and to quote my favorite gnome warlock Zaboo, "Amazeballs". I hope this happens this year. I would resub instantly just to play this games potential, even if it wasn't polished yet. Until then, there are plenty of games that do dailies and raids as good or better yet provide 100 other things to do.

[Deleted]

For brevity, here is a list of things they could do that would be acceptable within the universe and add a variety of diverse content to the game:

1) Player housing/ship features - Upgradable and customizable visuals for exterior and interior. Hidden bases for smugglers, a room at the acadmey for jedi, etc.

2) Multiple mini games from pazaak, swoop/pod racing, and anything else they want to create new.

3) Achievement system that fits into the story. Possible class specific achievements that allow access to new abilities/moddable gear. Jedi can find people to help (random quests all over the place) Bounty Hunters can take bounties, smugglers can pickup and deliver goods while being pursued by people. Hell, put in some PvP with it where a Sith Warrior gets achievements for stopping smugglers from transporting goods....the possibilities are endless.

4) Dynamic doesn't have to mean PvP. Have the AI actually do something. Maybe have some rebels assaulting a sith base or v/v every now and then. This is a time period where a treaty is about to explode into war...we all run around like the other faction doesn't exist basically. Not only is it not realistic, but it's not fun either.

5) They've already proven they can add unique ways to get pets/mounts...do it more. Make it a feature.

6) Lightsaber/Blaster puzzles. If you use the force to build your saber, make it a 3D interactive puzzle where you have increasingly more amount of parts to combine out of order to create unique lightsaber looks and colors. Possibly have some of the items you need crafted by professions so that the economy can benefit from it. Same for rifles and pistols, where you put it together like a soldier would. Tie this into the achievement system, have it be cosmetic (moddable) only.

7)Add a new profession in the game that is secondary and all characters can have it. Make it be more direct with your character instead of your companions. Some star wars equivalent of a yeoman where you can learn to make drinks in a cantina, moisture farm, entertain.

8) KotOR already had an arena esque 1v1 PvE fight...another game just stole this concept. Reclaim this. Fight outlaws, hutt beasts, etc in gladiator matches. This has already been in SW movies and other games.

I don't really need to go on. I'm not a game designer or a SW fanatic and I can come up with these ideas that only ADD to the current game. Opinions are irrelevant, this game is a fraction of it's potential.

We rarely agree but I have to admit to nodding along while reading the above points. It's incredibly frustrating to know that TOR (with some/all of the above points) would be a fantastic MMO but for now BW are happy to stick to a WZ/FP/Ops/Events cycle. Makeb being the sole exception. My dream is that for TOR's 1yr anniversary they announce some of those features as being 'worked on'. Dream on I shall.

[Kelimbror]

My dream is that for TOR's 1yr anniversary they announce some of those features as being 'worked on'. Dream on I shall.

Man we can all dream for that. If they drop a bombshell for an anniversary announcement where they give videos of new space and any awesome features like I mentioned, it would be the greatest thing ever. It just really bugs me that a company as large and money seeking as EA doesn't see that they should have pursued these avenues to fully develop this game.

The money they supposedly spent compared to what we actually got just makes no sense. I can't even fathom how they spent the last 5 years on this project. In that regard, I can completely see why Bioware employees have been dropping like flies. I'm just hoping there are enough passionate people left that can convince EA to ease up the reigns or else they won't make their money back.

Possibly they were given a bottom line with the F2P transition. If they actually get a large cash injection from the next month, it's possible we could see some real headway made on new features.

[ariakul]

I think you should look in the mirror, you can be constructive don't get me wrong but you can also bash certain points just for the sake of it, you have your opinion we have ours about the game, respect goes both ways. The game itself is good, the questing is fun, the Operations are unique and the PvP is enjoyable and puts the points on teamwork rather then rushing. And this is ofcourse my opinion. The thing is tho, you compare swotor with other games, try to look at swotor as swotor and go from there, there is no need to copy things from WoW or Rift because there is a reason why the current 500k subscribers are playing swotor instead of those two.

Unfortunately, you need to compare SWTOR to other games. There are many other games that are TRULY Free to Play compared to the new level 50 trial SWTOR. GW2 is far far better when comparing.

Unfortunately, the execs really don't know what they are doing. A lot of people will check out this trial, and then end up not bothering because you literally cannot do anything. Whats the point of questing, doing Warzones, and Flashpoints if you cannot equip the gear?

Heck, even WOW's unlimited free trial to 20 is better than this new trial from SWTOR. When it comes to items that have a queue (BG's and LFD) you NEVER put a limit on that. Having unlimited WZ's and FP's for 50 trials is actually BENEFICIAL for PAYING customers as it gives them shorter queue times.
Heck, in WOW, the 20-24 bracket has the shortest queue times for any twink bracket.

You need to do a facepalm with how many boneheaded decisions the management team has made at Bioware.

[RoninaThorstone]

Man we can all dream for that. If they drop a bombshell for an anniversary announcement where they give videos of new space and any awesome features like I mentioned, it would be the greatest thing ever. It just really bugs me that a company as large and money seeking as EA doesn't see that they should have pursued these avenues to fully develop this game.

The money they supposedly spent compared to what we actually got just makes no sense. I can't even fathom how they spent the last 5 years on this project. In that regard, I can completely see why Bioware employees have been dropping like flies. I'm just hoping there are enough passionate people left that can convince EA to ease up the reigns or else they won't make their money back.

Possibly they were given a bottom line with the F2P transition. If they actually get a large cash injection from the next month, it's possible we could see some real headway made on new features.

This. How did they spend 100m to 200m and launch with less features than the average mmo?
How did they spend that much and come up with less than swg?
How is this even possible?

I figured by now we would be beta testing JTL 2.

At least.

[Lemmiwink]

They shipped 6 months too soon tbh. Patch 1.3 should have been patch 1.0 and how they completely ignored mini-games/events/fun stuff is completely beyond me. I want to resub, but I know what will happen. I will be all "yay, swtor, missed this game" and then get extremely bored after 1 week only to quit playing again.

If they want to reach their potential, which I believe could be in the 4-6 million range, they have to start implementing real features into the game. Just start with something easy like chat bubbles and allow addons so that they don't have to concentrate 90% of their development work on making QoL features.

Whoever was in charge of this MMO should be fired and they should get some people that can actually think innovation in on the management side. This game is too good to be disgraced this way by greedy amateurs. Crossing my fingers for more innovation and addons before christmas, at least an announcement that this is coming. Then I will resub and I will pay them my monthly fee + cash shop items or whatever they come up with. But, as of right now, I am voting with my wallet and saying no to crap.

[WoWGoneBad]

Jedi can find people to help (random quests all over the place) Bounty Hunters can take bounties, smugglers can pickup and deliver goods while being pursued by people. Hell, put in some PvP with it where a Sith Warrior gets achievements for stopping smugglers from transporting goods....the possibilities are endless.

4) Dynamic doesn't have to mean PvP. Have the AI actually do something. Maybe have some rebels assaulting a sith base or v/v every now and then. This is a time period where a treaty is about to explode into war...we all run around like the other faction doesn't exist basically. Not only is it not realistic, but it's not fun either.

this right here is my BIGGEST issue with this company right nowa galaxy at war and we see NONE of it other than the missions on planet. after that your done and the war remains in stasis. they could do SOOOOO muh more but they jus kep adding crap dailies that have NOTHING to do with continuation of hostilities and ts just stupid.

classes tha can do SOOO much more and they sit around in the cantina waiting and waiting. and personally i HATE the way that smugglers are freelance soldires for hire and not at all what the class should be, same goes for bounty hunters

[Jalek]

this right here is my BIGGEST issue with this company right nowa galaxy at war and we see NONE of it other than the missions on planet. after that your done and the war remains in stasis. they could do SOOOOO muh more but they jus kep adding crap dailies that have NOTHING to do with continuation of hostilities and ts just stupid.

classes tha can do SOOO much more and they sit around in the cantina waiting and waiting. and personally i HATE the way that smugglers are freelance soldires for hire and not at all what the class should be, same goes for bounty hunters

If you've got the Collector's Edition there is a book that comes with the game that explains why BH are imperial and smugglers are republic.

[Kelimbror]

If you've got the Collector's Edition there is a book that comes with the game that explains why BH are imperial and smugglers are republic.

That doesn't speak to his concerns at all. Kind of a more overarching design issue.

[Psychlon]

For brevity, here is a list of things they could do that would be acceptable within the universe and add a variety of diverse content to the game:

and "we" were saying that they shouldn't add this? I'm sure we can all agree that for any game there are hundreds of amazing ideas. I don't want to know how many days I've spend on SOE's Galaxies forum, writing down ideas for the game and in the end.... they did whatever they wanted, they solely decided to transfer the game (NGE) only to backpaddle years later. This only shows that you have the wrong people in the wrong place, there is nothing you can do about and however many hours you spend on any forum talking about it will not change it. We can only hope that we don't have these kind of people in Bioware. You have to promote your game, nobody wants to listen that you agree that you have a bad game... it's like saying "no" to a kidnapper when talking about exchange terms.

As for the state of the game, I have constant lags in warzones... down from 40 to 4fps from time to time which makes "my pvp experience"... very special. (practically I can't play any melee class in pvp) So trust me when I'm saying that no.. I'm not totally satisfied with the game and of course... anything new, especially aside of raids/ more dailies is more than welcome but I don't remember anyone saying that it wouldn't be (as you implied).

As for a reason why SWTOR still has 500k + Subscriber which looks very little next to WoW, SWTOR is no new gen mmo and people playing WoW have very little reason to change their game, especially as they proofed that they have a very very low acceptance regarding graphical aspects (my personal impression as I still don't understand how so many people can accept such a low standart and apparently be happy with it) and most of the people playing the game for several years. I wouldn't change, that's for sure and why.

On the other side, I find myself more and more happy that I don't need to be constantly in the game to be part of it, I can perfectly not run my dailies and still compete on the highest levelst just for the sake of it. I embrace shorter raids (up 3-4 hours), I like shorter instances (less than 1 hour) and.. I really do like leveling in this game. I mean... you are not going to pvp in a game which has a bad pvp... why would you not level another character in a game you actually fully enjoy it? This is the very first MMO where I don't feel bored leveling, I enjoy taking different ways to lvl 50, set my self different targets and enjoy the flexibility I have to run a flashpoint/ do pvp/ do all quests or not.

If and when "social" elements come to the game, currently I'm not counting on it, however I'm going to be super happy when it happens.