Blues Biting Back

[Deleted]

I do like it when the Blues call people on the crap they post, because on the whole that's what it is, crap.

People would get on better if they understood that it's not a direct line to blizzard, that it's a forum for players that they happen to read, that whatever amazing little bit of insight you have, should be posted in the thread that exists not a new one and especially not a new one with BLIZZARD READ THIS!! in the title.....

You only need to look here, at the people posting thinking this is the official site to see the number of people who simply don't read or understand.

The mentality of too many people is "I pay my money, now you must listen to me and do what I want" and those people are always going to be disappointed because it's hard to sift through the river of shit that posted for the nuggets, the fact that they try (to me anyway) is impressive.

[Gizmoe]

A thousand and one times yes, very much yes. They are walking a fine line, but so far I'm loving the blue text lately. I hope they keep it up.

[xChurch]

Blizzard CMs are owning the complainers with simple logic. I approve.

[Autier]

I'd prefer Blizzard employees post constructively like they tell everyone to do, but they've lowered their standards to those complaining and have a blue clown running around with his head cutoff, drowning boats with his clown car from Twisted Metal. Yet nothing is getting accomplished.

Have you read anything Zarhym has posted lately?

I don't know why forum-goers expect blues to take as much disrespect and abuse as they do and react to it as shining paragons of chastity and virtue, turning the symbolic 'other cheek,' all the while coddling and placating every person that drops a qq bomb.

[Trubo]

As funny as the guy crying about dailies yet has 9 90s was, he did raise a good point in that reputation this expansion is quite ridiculous. First off, I'm not asking for a WotLK/Cata tabard system, as I agree with the points people made about it making dungeons the one-stop shop for everything. As for my complaints on the current reputation system;

1. Aside from Brood of Nozdormu pre-AQ gates opening, I can't think of a non-vanity reputation (i.e. only offers mounts, tabards, pets, or titles) that had a single reliable way of gaining rep before MoP.

2. Until MoP, no reputation has ever gated your progress into other reputations (SP and AC requiring revered with GL before you can continue/start gaining rep with them).

3. Why does Wrathion care about you killing no-name Mogu and Mantid out in the world when his rewards only affect people who raid?

Just to repeat myself; I AM NOT ASKING FOR THE WOTLK+CATA TABARD SYSTEM BACK. All I would like is another way to get rep beyond grinding dailies (i.e. killing bosses in dungeons related to a specific faction on heroic mode), hoping for random zone drops (Dread Amber Shards are the bane of my existance) or just remove the Golden Lotus gating so that I can pursue any reputation at my discretion. If any of these 3 points are wrong, please correct me.

[Fenixdown]

While it is new, refreshing and soap opera material when devs "biting back" at forum QQ, I still somehow have the feeling they are disrespecting the customer.

I wonder about something: why is it acceptable for us that a customer should complain about a defective car, bad hotel conditions, a rude waiter, lousy internet connections to the ISP, but when it comes to video games, the general reaction is to tell the complainer to STFU and to mock him?
Interesting.

I'm going to take this one, as someone who has worked in customer service (IRL) for well over a decade. It's not that someone is complaining, it's HOW and WHY they're complaining. Let's take two examples.

Example 1 : "Excuse me, but I ordered this burger with no pickles and it has pickles on it. Can I get this corrected , please?"

Example 2 : "I TOLD the lady that took my order I didn't want any pickles, and there's pickles on this burger. I demand a free combo now because your cashier can't do her job right!"

Now, let's do some word replacements. Let's replace pickles with anything involving WoW's progression path (dailies, LFD, LFR, random BG's, ect.) and burger with the end results of the progression path (heroic mode raiding, RBG's, ect.). Now, guys. You tell me...how would you respond to both of those situations?

Example 2 is how 99.999999999999999999999% of the complaining is done in the video game industry, and I'm pretty sure it's noticed the most in regards to Blizzard online games (WoW and D3 mainly). Now, I don't know about you, but if someone comes to me with the second example as their attitude, I'm 99.99999999999999999% likely to tell them to go self-fornicate with a rusty iron pole. Which, to my knowledge, Blizzard blue posters have never told anyone to do. So, if anything, give Blizzard credit where credit is obviously due. They're showing an INCREDIBLE amount of restraint for the garbage that gets tossed at them on an hourly basis by the people that play their games.

[Stede]

In some cases it's warranted, but by and large the devs are huge assholes. I honestly they sooner fire every CM and I didn't have to see blue-post assholiness every day. And even when it is warranted - it's not refreshing, and it's not humorous. Most of us already know those guys are just blowing off steam, so it's really not a big deal. The CMs' job should honestly be to try to elucidate the real problem rather than validating the rest of the fanboy kingdom's undying love for the game.

But w/e - when 2Q2013 subs #s get released, we'll see who's still laughing. If these guys continue to be obstinate pricks about the shitty parts of the game a lot of folks are gonna vote with their free time and move on.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

Now, let's do some word replacements. Let's replace pickles with anything involving WoW's progression path (dailies, LFD, LFR, random BG's, ect.) and burger with the end results of the progression path (heroic mode raiding, RBG's, ect.). Now, guys. You tell me...how would you respond to both of those situations?

Now apply the same for forums. Then also look at the culture of acceptance of it. Then look how things have become as a result of it.

Blizzard got what it got for being AWOL. Coming back now, and doing it very harshly, they'll make the same mistake SOE did.

But hey, if they refuse to learn history, they're doomed to repeat it.

[Raintola]

But WoW isn't defective or not providing what's intended

There's warranted complaining and then there's unfounded complaining. If you're really not happy don't pay SIMPLE

You forget, most people who post these unfounded complaints over and over and too retarded to quit.

[Stede]

I'm going to take this one, as someone who has worked in customer service (IRL) for well over a decade. It's not that someone is complaining, it's HOW and WHY they're complaining. Let's take two examples.

Example 1 : "Excuse me, but I ordered this burger with no pickles and it has pickles on it. Can I get this corrected , please?"

Example 2 : "I TOLD the lady that took my order I didn't want any pickles, and there's pickles on this burger. I demand a free combo now because your cashier can't do her job right!"

Now, let's do some word replacements. Let's replace pickles with anything involving WoW's progression path (dailies, LFD, LFR, random BG's, ect.) and burger with the end results of the progression path (heroic mode raiding, RBG's, ect.). Now, guys. You tell me...how would you respond to both of those situations?

Example 2 is how 99.999999999999999999999% of the complaining is done in the video game industry, and I'm pretty sure it's noticed the most in regards to Blizzard online games (WoW and D3 mainly). Now, I don't know about you, but if someone comes to me with the second example as their attitude, I'm 99.99999999999999999% likely to tell them to go self-fornicate with a rusty iron pole. Which, to my knowledge, Blizzard blue posters have never told anyone to do. So, if anything, give Blizzard credit where credit is obviously due. They're showing an INCREDIBLE amount of restraint for the garbage that gets tossed at them on an hourly basis by the people that play their games.

And you'd get fired for that - at a burger joint. EVERYONE puts up with shit on a semi-regular basis - it's what's kept us all alive with the advent of things like nuclear weapons. Blizzard CMs are paid to elicit valuable feedback from the community and return that information to the devs. Restraint is part of the job. Getting righteous isn't. And if they'd bother to drop the Burger King / Slim Shady attitude, they might actually be able to help Blizzard make a better product, rather than alienate a solid portion of the community.

Remember Cata's early months? The decline in subs? Most poor reviews cite the attitude of the CMs towards the community as a reason for the poor rating. Now, you'll all yak-yak about how these are QQ, greifers or whatever. They're an asset. Yeah. How many other games have folks this involved in providing critical feedback for the games they're playing? Likely none. Now - ragers aside, Blizzard has this huge asset in the contingent of folks who will tell them what they don't like, why they don't like it, and give Blizzard a chance to make it better before they unsub. Any other game and most people just head to GameStop, pick up something that 'doesnt suck' and move on.

[tibben]

I found the QQ U MAKE ME DO DAILIES WHEN I HAVE A WIFE AND KIDS P.S. I HAVE 9 LVL 90S guy hilarious in a 'Oh deary me' way

I was finding that pretty idiotic as well. I have a 50 hour a week job, a wife and kids and I have one level 90 and two level 87s. If I had 9 level 90s right now and was complaining about being forced to do dailies my wife would have left me and taken the kids. I just do dailies when I feel like it, if not then I level an alt or run a dungeon or do a scenario or anything that is not a daily. Not going to complain about dailies. They are only mandatory if you are in a cutting edge progression guild and need to min/max your gear as fast as possible to give your guild every possible edge. But those people also have all day every day to play the game. Otherwise they are just something to waste 30 minutes to an hour on and then find something else to do.

[Tharn]

i dont mind when they reply, but when their responses read like a blizzard memo, its just annoying.

dont give me the PR response, tell me what you think as an individual.

They can't there's a major gag order going on in Blizzard right now, all I can say is I sincerely hope it's worth it to them.

Friend of mine who actually does games reviewing for a major syndicate says all the other game producers are ecstatic with Activision/Blizzards current antics. "Sales have never been better for us, cheers Blizzard keep it up we're absolutely delighted to have your customers; seeing you don't want them anymore."

I honestly believe in my opinion all this is being fueled by a large player in Activision so he can grab the company, my question what good will it do you if you enrage a good portion of your customer base to the point they never want to buy another game you produce?

Granted I'm a 25 year Public relations/CSR specialist and trainer. What do I know.

[Verain]

I found the QQ U MAKE ME DO DAILIES WHEN I HAVE A WIFE AND KIDS P.S. I HAVE 9 LVL 90S guy hilarious in a 'Oh deary me' way

Yea, that was pretty great. He was SUPER tactful about pointing out that his playtime was some flavor of crazy already, but he still did it, which was great.

[Tharn]

And you'd get fired for that - at a burger joint. EVERYONE puts up with shit on a semi-regular basis - it's what's kept us all alive with the advent of things like nuclear weapons. Blizzard CMs are paid to elicit valuable feedback from the community and return that information to the devs. Restraint is part of the job. Getting righteous isn't. And if they'd bother to drop the Burger King / Slim Shady attitude, they might actually be able to help Blizzard make a better product, rather than alienate a solid portion of the community.

Remember Cata's early months? The decline in subs? Most poor reviews cite the attitude of the CMs towards the community as a reason for the poor rating. Now, you'll all yak-yak about how these are QQ, greifers or whatever. They're an asset. Yeah. How many other games have folks this involved in providing critical feedback for the games they're playing? Likely none. Now - ragers aside, Blizzard has this huge asset in the contingent of folks who will tell them what they don't like, why they don't like it, and give Blizzard a chance to make it better before they unsub. Any other game and most people just head to GameStop, pick up something that 'doesnt suck' and move on.

Problem is Blizzard just seems to be downtalking to their customer base. I've seen it happen in other companies, I've been asked to come in as a consultant role to some companies to help them with their losses of market share. One company lost 46% of his customer base, I agreed to do a walk around his company for a preliminary inspection. You'd be amazed what wallking around like an electrician inspecting lighting can reveal from employee's who just ignore you.

After the preliminary I told the company I would not be taking the contract. When they asked why, I was brutally honest. "If I came in to help your company you'd have no employee's when I was done; I'd be forced to tell you to fire all of them." Worst customer service I thought I'd ever seen.

Blizzard is starting to rank up with that company.

Oh and how did that company I did investigate do, they were out of business by 3rd quarter of that year.

[Deleted]

I honestly believe in my opinion all this is being fueled by a large player in Activision so he can grab the company, my question what good will it do you if you enrage a good portion of your customer base to the point they never want to buy another game you produce?

Granted I'm a 25 year Public relations/CSR specialist and trainer. What do I know.

This is among the most hilarious nonsense ever posted in a forum with plenty of already dubious posters. This warrants tin foil body armor, no simple hat.

On topic, while it's entertaining to see some morons being banned by Blizzard, the ship to get their forums into some resemblance of order has sailed years ago. They ceded the forums to the 24/7 whiners and drove away 95% of mature, respectful discussion. Getting rid of some of the trash now will not get the majority of paying customers involved in what could have been a meaningful way to generate feedback on their design decisions.

[raintrees]

basically the people in this thread who think what blizzard is doing wrong, as well as the people who actually make those disgusting crybaby posts, are usually people who are mad fun of on a constant basis, are so awkward and sub-human that they need to feel some form of ability to attack someone, so they attack with words the people who (they think) cant fight back. but then when they actually do get some lip they're so taken aback that they couldnt get someone kissing their ass that it infuriates them. thus getting the little remarks like in this thread.

tl;dr grow a pair and stop being little whiney bitches to CS reps

[Tharn]

basically the people in this thread who think what blizzard is doing wrong, as well as the people who actually make those disgusting crybaby posts, are usually people who are mad fun of on a constant basis, are so awkward and sub-human that they need to feel some form of ability to attack someone, so they attack with words the people who (they think) cant fight back. but then when they actually do get some lip they're so taken aback that they couldnt get someone kissing their ass that it infuriates them. thus getting the little remarks like in this thread.

tl;dr grow a pair and stop being little whiney bitches to CS reps

Rain, that's there jobs to deal with customers good and bad, most all CSR's face the enraged customer - that's a CSR's job description. If CSR's are suffering burn out, which happens a ton, they need to re-evaluate their own professional goals. Good long term CSR's are very hard to find and when you do get them you as an employer better make sure you damn well keep them happy. Blizzard as an employer should be talking with their CSR's and finding ways to alleviate the stress on them from this "corporate directive the company has taken."

[BrerBear]

Remember Cata's early months? The decline in subs? Most poor reviews cite the attitude of the CMs towards the community as a reason for the poor rating.

Complete and utter bunk. Tying Cataclysm's subscription loss to CM comments is the ultimate stretch with no actual facts behind it, and plenty of facts against it. Starting with the fact that the majority of the player base never even reads the forums.

Your post smells of someone who has engaged in these types of rant posts and is looking for justification.

(Besides, everyone reading forums knows full well that its subs went down because the game was too hard / too easy / too casual / too old / too static / too changed, all at the same time. )

My respect for a company goes up when they challenge rude customers back in a respectful way, which is as far as Blizzard takes it. Any company which rolls over with a neutered "we appreciate your feedback" response is a company which isn't listening anyway.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 05:21 PM ----------

Rain, that's there jobs to deal with customers good and bad, most all CSR's face the enraged customer - that's a CSR's job description. If CSR's are suffering burn out, which happens a ton, they need to re-evaluate their own professional goals. Good long term CSR's are very hard to find and when you do get them you as an employer better make sure you damn well keep them happy. Blizzard as an employer should be talking with their CSR's and finding ways to alleviate the stress on them from this "corporate directive the company has taken."

For a guy who talks about how his credentials so much, you seem to be confusing the basics between a customer service rep and a community manager.

Blizzard's reputation of customer service reps is quite good. Perhaps you could share with us some of these other gaming companies with better customer service?

[Mad_Murdock]

I honestly believe in my opinion all this is being fueled by a large player in Activision so he can grab the company, my question what good will it do you if you enrage a good portion of your customer base to the point they never want to buy another game you produce?
.

And I honestly believe that a large portion of the playerbase is just burnt out. And when you're burnt out you complain...ALOT! I'd guess half the playerbase is probably at a place where it's time to move on. The guy with nine level 90s, complaining about dailies. I actually get his point. I have three 90s and I absolutely hate that I need to do the same boring dailies on all of them to unlock some of the VP gear I want\need. But the difference is, I refuse to do the dailies if I don't feel like it. I completely get the OCD behavior that makes me feel like "I have to do them" and when I do them and hate it, I hate on myself not Blizzard.

I do think they should of already had in place or already implemented the double Rep gains, like they have for the Valor. Which OBTW, Blizzard doesn't seem to get much praise for doing that, only "give me more more more" I don't know that Blizzard is ever going to have the happy customer base it enjoyed back in Vanilla and TBC. Times have change, people are looking for more instant action, like they get from Call of Duty or Battlefield 3. Grinding along just isn't what the new generation wants.

Remember Cata's early months? The decline in subs? Most poor reviews cite the attitude of the CMs towards the community as a reason for the poor rating. .

Well, you'll probably say it was just spin. But the general answer Blizzard gave (Tom Chilton, New York Times interview) was because many of those people found the game too hard. Sure some didn't like Ghostcrawler's Heroics are hard post, but what someone posts rarely leads to people quitting something they enjoy, unless they called everyone mindless monkeys or something over the top.

[Tharn]

Complete and utter bunk. Tying Cataclysm's subscription loss to CM comments is the ultimate stretch with no actual facts behind it, and plenty of facts against it. Starting with the fact that the majority of the player base never even reads the forums.

Your post smells of someone who has engaged in these types of rant posts and is looking for justification.

(Besides, everyone reading forums knows full well that its subs went down because the game was too hard / too easy / too casual / too old / too static / too changed, all at the same time. )

My respect for a company goes up when they challenge rude customers back in a respectful way, which is as far as Blizzard takes it. Any company which rolls over with a neutered "we appreciate your feedback" response is a company which isn't listening anyway.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 05:21 PM ----------



For a guy who talks about how his credentials so much, you seem to be confusing the basics between a customer service rep and a community manager.

Blizzard's reputation of customer service reps is quite good. Perhaps you could share with us some of these other gaming companies with better customer service?

Rofl, I've run into this attitude SO many times when I've been training in Companies. Here's an exert of one of my training session with a fortune 500 company seminar I did for them.

"Ahem, thank you all very much for joining us today we're here to have a nice discussion and offer some timely refresher points to an already outstanding group of employee's on the role and importance of CS and CSR's. The first thing I'd like to talk with you about today is who is a CSR and what is there responsibilities.

Any member of the company from the President right down to the janitor is a CSR and has a responsibility for keeping the Customer happy if they come to them with a complaint, concern or heaven forbid a compliment. Why? the customer is your employer they pay your wage, they allow you to grow your company and possibly afford any one of it's employee's the possibility of future advancement within the organization.

Yes we've all had the over enraged customer, the customer who resembles a terrible two year old. Enraged customers can be the most difficult to deal with. That is when you my esteemed colleagues <points into the assembled crowd> will bring your magic to the cause, as Customer service specialists it's you who brings calm to the storm; you who listens to customer with genuine caring and concern. Why? because this customer is enraged about something your company has done. You didn't do it, but that customer is an opportunity. Yes an opportunity to change their opinion, to turn their rage into joy.

Why do we do this instead of telling said 'verbally abrassive, enraged" customer to take a hike. Because a lost customer is a lost opportunity! one that you will never get back. It's should be NO surprise to anyone in this room that an enraged customer will go and tell everyone and his brother about how 'YOUR COMPANY' harmed them in some way. The people will tell 10 of their friends and those will in turn tell 10 of their friends. Before long you can have upwards of 1,000- 10,000 - 100,000 to upwards of 1 million plus people speaking negatives about your company. Of those 85% may choose to avoid your company all together permentantly. They won't come and tell you ' HEY I'm not buying from your company because. ' You will never know but your bottom line eventually will.

It's takes 150-200% sweat, blood and tears and initiative, advertising dollars work to get a new customer to come to your business and be a repeat customer. I think you'll all agree that spending 110% making sure your current customers are happy and content is a lot less work than 200% and the perks from doing that 110% those happy customers will go and tell 10 friends and so on. Before long you've gained 1 million happy content customers, you've not had to work 200% hard to get them and the marketing crew are ecstatic because they didn't have to spend triple the advertising budget to get those customers. "

After a standing ovation of 750 employee's at that seminar finished applauding we broke down and went into working groups to test scenerio's etc. That company saw after that seminar a 35% increase in customer traffic and had a record profit that year and each subsequent year for the next 4 years.