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  1. #601
    How is it a temper tantrum? Clearly if liberal mothers were allowed to have abortions anytime they wanted years ago it's a good chance some of the liberals posting in this thread wouldn't be here.
    if your parents had decided to be abstinent or fap you wouldnt be here either.

    (Ps abortions were legal then).

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheatz View Post

    Whoa dude! Don't confront them with facts...they won't know what to do!
    Observation: Most second amendment fanatics conveniently forget it has quite a few words in it besides "right to bear arms"

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Observation: Most second amendment fanatics conveniently forget it has quite a few words in it besides "right to bear arms"
    Even Mr Right Wing himself (Scalia) says that the Founding Fathers could have been clearer on that issue if they meant everyone could have access to whatever weapons they wanted.

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Observation: Most second amendment fanatics conveniently forget it has quite a few words in it besides "right to bear arms"
    Please do not take this as an insult, but have you actually read the Constitution?

  5. #605
    You realize that Penn and Teller are not the best sources, right?

  6. #606
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Please do not take this as an insult, but have you actually read the Constitution?
    I stopped caring about the video when he started blithering about how the British were a tyrannical militia (they were an army) fighting against the American "People" (they were an organized army reinforced by militia). Highly subjective reading is subjective.

  7. #607
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Please do not take this as an insult, but have you actually read the Constitution?
    I don't know, the first four words of the second amendment seem pretty relevant to what I said.

    Note: I'm not a fanatic in either direction. I own three guns.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Please do not take this as an insult, but have you actually read the Constitution?
    If the only reason for wanting to bear arms in the US is to be able to protect yourself from a potentially tyrannical government. Then, you really have no reasons to bear arms nowadays because any of your toys that you can purchase in stores even automated guns won't stand a chance against the military might of the USA.

  9. #609
    Or just look at what the Founding Fathers had to say about it. One of the few things the federalist and anti-federalists agreed upon was just how important the right to bear arms is.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 01:09 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by N-7 View Post
    If the only reason for wanting to bear arms in the US is to be able to protect yourself from a potentially tyrannical government. Then, you really have no reasons to bear arms nowadays because any of your toys that you can purchase in stores even automated guns won't stand a chance against the military might of the USA.
    The people should be just as well armed as the military.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Or just look at what the Founding Fathers had to say about it. One of the few things the federalist and anti-federalists agreed upon was just how important the right to bear arms is.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 01:09 AM ----------



    The people should be just as well armed as the military.
    The libs would have us change all of that to suit them though. They are a very vocal minority you know!

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Or just look at what the Founding Fathers had to say about it. One of the few things the federalist and anti-federalists agreed upon was just how important the right to bear arms is.
    Great, so let's go all the way with originalism. Everyone can have a muzzle loaded, single shot, flintlock rifle or pistol.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  12. #612
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swazi Spring View Post
    Or just look at what the Founding Fathers had to say about it. One of the few things the federalist and anti-federalists agreed upon was just how important the right to bear arms is.
    "The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])

    "A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169)

    "What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty.... Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 {August 17, 1789}])

    "...but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people, while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights..." (Alexander Hamilton speaking of standing armies in Federalist 29.)

    "Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

    "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for few public officials." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 425-426)


    I could go on, for quite a while. There are other Founding Fathers who felt that personal arms were the central focus as opposed to militia, but it isn't nearly as unilateral as you're attempting to portray.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Great, so let's go all the way with originalism. Everyone can have a muzzle loaded, single shot, flintlock rifle or pistol.
    Do we get rifled barrels or not? It is kind of a deal breaker if not.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 02:16 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    I could go on, for quite a while. There are other Founding Fathers who felt that personal arms were the central focus as opposed to militia, but it isn't nearly as unilateral as you're attempting to portray.
    There is that whole thing where most of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists were against the establishment of a standing army as well. But oddly none of the Super Second Amendment Protector Squad is against the US having a standing military.

    Also, Belfpala, if we go originalism, I guess we have to get rid of the air force, nuclear weapons, any kind of non-wood hulled ships... Sounds like we are back to bayonets and horses.

  14. #614
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Do we get rifled barrels or not? It is kind of a deal breaker if not.

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-15 at 02:16 AM ----------



    There is that whole thing where most of the Federalists and Anti-Federalists were against the establishment of a standing army as well. But oddly none of the Super Second Amendment Protector Squad is against the US having a standing military.

    Also, Belfpala, if we go originalism, I guess we have to get rid of the air force, nuclear weapons, any kind of non-wood hulled ships... Sounds like we are back to bayonets and horses.
    george washington did fine without a rifled barrel.

  15. #615
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    george washington did fine without a rifled barrel.
    He also had wooden teeth. I suppose I can't expect to get any veneers or anything as I get older

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Also, Belfpala, if we go originalism, I guess we have to get rid of the air force, nuclear weapons, any kind of non-wood hulled ships... Sounds like we are back to bayonets and horses.
    Can I have a sword instead of that bayonet?

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Can I have a sword instead of that bayonet?
    Why do you think you get to be the officer? Hmmmm?

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by belfpala View Post
    Can I have a sword instead of that bayonet?
    only if you're an officer.

  19. #619
    Quote Originally Posted by darenyon View Post
    only if you're an officer.
    Get out of my head!

  20. #620
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Why do you think you get to be the officer? Hmmmm?
    Too late, I already have a sword!

    That must mean I'm already an officer. hah!

    <--- Brigadier General Belfpala.

    Let's all ride the Gish gallop.

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