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  1. #161
    No one here has to do any dailys, No one has to raid. Your fooling yourself if you think you have to.

    You dont have to raid you dont have to gear up. Raiding requires and should require time and dedication. It should not be somthing any old person can log on and do without putting any thought what so ever into. It should require you to grind reps, get attuned, learn your class, Farm gear. If this isnt for you then dont do it. No ones forcing you to join a raiding guild. No ones forcing you to farm gear or rep.

    If you dont have time to dedicated to raiding then you dont. bitching at blizzard to make shit simpler for you isnt a solution. Some things in games require dedication wether its earning all the achievment points in a game or beating it on the hardest difficulty, if they catered to people who dont have time for these things then there wouldnt be any games now would there. So long and short is if you dont have time for dailys or the proper raid preperation then that sucks but thats how shit is your going to have to deal with it, Just cus you pay for the game doesnt mean you get to have everything handed to you.


    LFR is prob the only concession your going to get.

    Deal with it, stop bitching.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    That seems way overblown when talking about 3-5 pieces of gear, especially when the difference between the iLvl of gear available through alternate means (some RNG based, and some not) is statistically insignificant. When I already have 12k+ in my primary stat, how much is 30-60 more REALLY gonna help me. Thats less than a gem or enchant in most cases.
    Let's speak purely from raider's point of view (I won't even touch "statistical insignificance" nonsence here). Did you one-shot all bosses available already? Don't think so. When you are wiping to some boss, and lying down dead on floor, do you think "hey, those guys are slacking, and need to push more" (A) or you think "what could I do to help my raid group more" (B)? And you know, with (A) attitude from every member in raid group - there will be no progress whatsoever, even on normal modes. And for point "B", the longer you will be finding yourself lying on floor, the more will you start to think about increasing your combat capabilities via such means as dailies.

    Speaking of "less than gem or enchant", why do you gem or enchant your gear at all then? "Raids are raining epics and upgrades" (as some people are actively trying persuade others in thinking), which are more significant than gem/enchant on bad piece of gear, why waste gold or time to farm for gems/enchants?
    Last edited by Ferocity; 2012-11-15 at 09:51 PM.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Let's speak purely from raider's poitn of view (I won't even touch "statistical insignificance" nonsence here). Did you one-shot all bosses available already? Don't think so. When you are wiping to some boss, and lying down dead on floor, do you think "hey, those guys are slacking, and need to push more" (A) or you think "what could I do to help my raid group more" (B)? And you know, with (A) attitude from every member in raid group - there will be no progress whatsoever, even on normal modes. And for point "B", the longer you will be finding yourself lying on floor, the more will you start to think about increasing your combat capabilities via such means as dailies.

    Speaking of "less than gem or enchant", why do you gem or enchant your gear at all then? "Raids are raining epics and upgrades" (as some people are actively trying persuade others in thinking), which are more significant than gem/enchant on bad piece of gear, why waste gold or time to farm for gems/enchants?
    Better execution of the fight will always make more of a difference than gear. The fact that Heroic MSV was cleared by guys in primarily dungeon blues proves this. If my raid wipes, 99% of the time it is because someone did something stupid. That's what I am thinking about. Not whether or not my tank did his dailies that day. Gear only allows for a better chance to recover from stupid mistakes.

    I'm not arguing that the gear doesn't make ANY difference. Obviously it does. I'm simply saying that it does not make as much of a difference as people are trying to claim it does, and that the few pieces of valor gear you could have gotten even if the rep grind was not required at all would not make enough of a difference to affect the outcome of a fight. Thus it cannot be argued in any way that the rep grinds are required by anything due to the game itself. They may be required by your guild/raid team. Or you may feel like they are required, as you feel compelled to always have your character at the maximum possible level of power at any time. But those thing are ultimately up to personal choice. They are not mandatory in any way.
    Last edited by Gurbz; 2012-11-15 at 09:56 PM.
    I found I enjoyed the game significantly more when I stopped paying attention to all the people on the forums telling me how much I am supposed to hate it
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    Better execution of the fight will always make more of a difference than gear.
    Better execution of the fight will make more of a difference than enchanting your gear, so why enchant your gear?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than wearing pants, so why wear pants?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than having a full raid group, so why have a full raid group?

    The answer, of course, is that like football, raiding is a game of inches, so you don't leave any opportunity for advantage on the table.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  5. #165
    Still waiting for legitimate reasoning people are forced to do Dailies.

    Seriously.

    I've asked this question in every thread involving this shit.

    No one gives me an argument that I can't poke holes through.

    Come on, someone.

    Seriously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Better execution of the fight will make more of a difference than enchanting your gear, so why enchant your gear?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than wearing pants, so why wear pants?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than having a full raid group, so why have a full raid group?
    If the fights can be cleared under those conditions, then one could not argue that such things are required. Again, I am not arguing that it would be easier by using every benefit possible. I'm just sick of people saying it is a requirement when it is not.
    I found I enjoyed the game significantly more when I stopped paying attention to all the people on the forums telling me how much I am supposed to hate it
    All this complaining is simply further proof that Blizzard could send each and every player a real-life wish-granting flying unicorn carrying a solid gold plate of chocolate chip cookies wrapped in hundred dollar bills, and someone would whine that Blizzard sucks for not letting them choose oatmeal raisin.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Better execution of the fight will make more of a difference than enchanting your gear, so why enchant your gear?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than wearing pants, so why wear pants?

    Better execution of the fight will make more difference than having a full raid group, so why have a full raid group?

    The answer, of course, is that like football, raiding is a game of inches, so you don't leave any opportunity for advantage on the table.
    Very weak post. None of the things you mentioned even represent 0.0001% of the time / effort expenditure that daily quests do. Find something more compelling.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by Gurbz View Post
    If the fights can be cleared under those conditions, then one could not argue that such things are required. Again, I am not arguing that it would be easier by using every benefit possible. I'm just sick of people saying it is a requirement when it is not.
    But if your group is NOT clearing content, how can you say any additional advantage isn't required for your group? Unless you've got everything on farm, you can't say that.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferocity View Post
    Let's speak purely from raider's point of view (I won't even touch "statistical insignificance" nonsence here). Did you one-shot all bosses available already? Don't think so. When you are wiping to some boss, and lying down dead on floor, do you think "hey, those guys are slacking, and need to push more" (A) or you think "what could I do to help my raid group more" (B)?
    I usually think B. However, 99% of the time, it has more to do with skill/strategy than gear. Of course, every little bit of gear does help a bit, but rarely does it make a difference between the wipe and success. If we had more 0.5% boss wipes, then I would agree. But honestly, most of our wipes are not at 0.5% boss health.

    I'm not saying that gear is not important. I'm just saying that after a certain minimum gear point, skills/strategies play a much larger role in progression. So I can help my raid more by planning better strategies, better CD managment, better mob placements, better rotations to maximize output depending on situation, etc...

    This is just my experience. YMMV.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    But if your group is NOT clearing content, how can you say any additional advantage isn't required for your group? Unless you've got everything on farm, you can't say that.
    ...Your group is just bad then?

    My guild cleared 4/6 in 463 iLevel.

    We got our gear off the first 4 bosses and LFR.

    We're 1/6 Heroic and 4/6 in HoF.

    We barely do dailies.

    ..So..
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminousAether View Post
    Very weak post. None of the things you mentioned even represent 0.0001% of the time / effort expenditure that daily quests do. Find something more compelling.
    I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's joke.

    He asks a rich lady, "Would you sleep with me if I gave you a million dollars?" "Why, yes, I suppose I would." "Would you sleep with me if I gave you one dollar?" "Mr. Marx! What do you think I am?!" "We've established what you are, lady; now we're just haggling over the price."

    If your group is roadblocked and dailies would give gear that would improve your stats, then dailies are required. It's just that you might not be committed enough to pay the price.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's joke.

    He asks a rich lady, "Would you sleep with me if I gave you a million dollars?" "Why, yes, I suppose I would." "Would you sleep with me if I gave you one dollar?" "Mr. Marx! What do you think I am?!" "We've established what you are, lady; now we're just haggling over the price."

    If your group is roadblocked and dailies would give gear that would improve your stats, then dailies are required. It's just that you might not be committed enough to pay the price.
    Or you can do LFR and change your specs if your DPS is lacking and pull more damage.

    Or research your class more.

    Or replace people who suck.

    Still waiting to see how Dailies are required.
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's joke.

    He asks a rich lady, "Would you sleep with me if I gave you a million dollars?" "Why, yes, I suppose I would." "Would you sleep with me if I gave you one dollar?" "Mr. Marx! What do you think I am?!" "We've established what you are, lady; now we're just haggling over the price."

    If your group is roadblocked and dailies would give gear that would improve your stats, then dailies are required. It's just that you might not be committed enough to pay the price.
    No, dailies are not required. Better play is required. Gear is a crutch. Remember when those people cleared Ulduar in WotLK wearing nothing but blues? Replacing the bad players holding you back is required, not gear.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by LuminousAether View Post
    No, dailies are not required. Better play is required. Gear is a crutch. Remember when those people cleared Ulduar in WotLK wearing nothing but blues? Replacing the bad players holding you back is required, not gear.
    Your argument is a complete fallacy. Yes, there are individuals that an do something. No, that doesn't mean everybody can do that thing. If you are blocked, the theoretical possibility of your group getting a skill transplant and suddently not sucking as much doesn't remove the bitter reality that you instead need better gear.

    And if your group has to replace players, it becomes a different group. The group that previously existed needed the gear.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Your argument is a complete fallacy. Yes, there are individuals that an do something. No, that doesn't mean everybody can do that thing. If you are blocked, the theoretical possibility of your group getting a skill transplant and suddently not sucking as much doesn't remove the bitter reality that you instead need better gear.

    And if your group has to replace players, it becomes a different group. The group that previously existed needed the gear.
    Or they need to play better.

    Do you really think gear is that important? Seriously?

    How did the top guilds in the world clear all the content in ilevel 463 gear then, and maybe even lower.

    Please, explain that to me.

    Ah, that's right! They're skilled and know how to play their class just like anyone else.

    And that means anyone else can do the EXACT same thing.

    Meaning your players aren't that good unfortunately : /
    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Kenny View Post
    Avocado is a tropical fruit , south seas expansion confirmed.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Destil View Post
    Or they need to play better.

    Do you really think gear is that important? Seriously?
    Do you really think there is no such thing as a personal skill cap? Seriously?

    Pointing to the top guilds is irrelevant and stupid. Didn't I already explain that?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  17. #177
    If your group is roadblocked and dailies would give gear that would improve your stats, then dailies are required.
    Is a fallacious statement that supposes that "roadblocked" always equates to "poor gear".

    And even if it were gear, the gear from heroic dungeons is sufficient to do both LFR and Normal, which in turn are sufficient enough to do Heroic raids. There's no need to do dailies if your intention is progression raiding. Though, obviously, you may benefit from them if you have time or RNG particularly hates you.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I'm reminded of Groucho Marx's joke.

    He asks a rich lady, "Would you sleep with me if I gave you a million dollars?" "Why, yes, I suppose I would." "Would you sleep with me if I gave you one dollar?" "Mr. Marx! What do you think I am?!" "We've established what you are, lady; now we're just haggling over the price."

    If your group is roadblocked and dailies would give gear that would improve your stats, then dailies are required. It's just that you might not be committed enough to pay the price.
    Osmeric,

    You and I may disagree on dailies or any other topic that may come up on these forums between now and eternity, but dammit, I just can't dislike someone that quotes Groucho Marx. XD

    Though similarly, if you've hit a roadbock on raiding, one person getting valor gear is likely not the problem. Similarly, before we had valor gear, those roadblocks were addressed by simply gearing up more from bosses prior to the roadblock. Additionally, as Blizzard has stated, most points that are being claimed as roadblocks are not DPS or gear check fights, but coordination fights.

    I'm honored with Shado-Pan, think I bought 3 pieces of valor gear, but majority has been getting acquired from LFR. Haven't done dailies for a while now as I'm waiting for 5.1 to continue. Just don't see the need for gearing head to toe in valor when I can focus on LFR and use valor for ilvl upgrade later.

    I still think Blizz should have kicked off with ilvl upgrade instead of valor entirely. I'd rather see a multitude of dailies for patterns, but majority for pets, fun items, mounts, and transmog set pieces.
    Last edited by Faroth; 2012-11-15 at 10:50 PM.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Your argument is a complete fallacy. Yes, there are individuals that an do something. No, that doesn't mean everybody can do that thing. If you are blocked, the theoretical possibility of your group getting a skill transplant and suddently not sucking as much doesn't remove the bitter reality that you instead need better gear.

    And if your group has to replace players, it becomes a different group. The group that previously existed needed the gear.
    Again, you seem to think that gear == killing a boss. That's not true. The gear barely makes a difference. Playing better is what needs to happen, not better gear.

  20. #180
    Dear Diary,

    I had the worst day today, I had to grind not 1 but 2! Yes two sets of dailies today. It was the worst!

    Firstly I had to leave the city, which sucks because I prefer to troll trade chat.... and complain about wow while I wait for my queue's.
    secondly I had to engage with other players that aren't in my guild, I hate socializing in the open world. Urgh! Why are other players so bad ?!?!

    Life was so much easier when I could spend hours upon hours mindlessly grinding dungeons!

    It's not fair that I need to grind this gear, I should be given rep for being skilled! I hate having all this optional content.

    If only I had some self control... Come to think of it. Doing some dailies while I wait for Bg, LFR and Heroic Queue's wasn't that bad at all

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